Any advice on which stallion you would breed to a Lucky Pulpit mare to keep to race? We are in Kentucky. Thanks!
We need more info. Name/family of dam, what she looks like, racing aptitude, price range for stud fee, etc.
Are you looking to breed her this year?
Not to thread jack but I’m also interested in this… I have a just turned 3 y/o filly by Lucky Pulpit that I’m looking to breed a couple years down the road. She’s short and stocky (15.2) but looks like she has a bit of growing to do still; she still has that out of proportion still growing baby look to her. Looks like a little quarter horse with her huge hindquarters. Any thoughts?
LOL apparently the Scat Daddy cross seems to be working pretty well. (But did he die recently?).
I know that the folks at Taylor Made had some very definite ideas about the kinds of crosses that would work with Chrome, so perhaps the reverse might work for those Lucky Pulpit mares (Forestry was one of the crosses, I believe). Perhaps a call to TM or some research into what they were looking for might help you come up with something. The first Chrome foals looked pretty good to me.
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Sorry, dam is Kiss Kiss. Don’t know much about her. Filly is unraced as of now…just looks too small.
Recently… December 14, 2015
IMO, a loss to the TB racing industry as his offspring (at least many of them) sure show talent on the track.
Kiss Kiss ; is by Pleasant Colony out of a mare by Woodman. 2nd dam is by Believe It (In Reality x Buckpasser) and her third dam was by Cornish Prince out of a The Axe mare. She’s got very nice, athletic lines on her. Kiss Kiss had other progeny by Dixie Union, Pulpit, ArchArchArch, and Dixieland Band who were not overly successful on the track.
@Curious many Lucky Pulpits have this look to them. Large, powerful hindquarters, very stocky. I think California Chrome was more of anomaly with his looks; leggy, narrow chest, very athletic looking. What is your budget to breed your filly to and what are you looking to race? Dirt or turf?
Many of Pleasant colony’s most successful horses were raced on dirt but a few of them were quite successful on turf and ended up standing in countries who race primarily turf. California Chrome was successful on both turf and dirt and did equally as well on both (lucky Pulpit) which makes your breeding choices an interesting one
It all depends on your budget. So clarify your budget and we can give you some interesting choices
Snaffle- as far as budget goes, preferably under 10 grand… but I wouldn’t mind hearing options outside that budget, you know, for science :lol:
And I think my filly would do better on turf. She was raised on grass pasture and has the big wide hooves for it.
The Lucky Pulpit mare we have in our barn is For Heaven’s Sake, out of Buffalo by Clever Trick. http://www.pedigreequery.com/for+heavens+sake2
She is small and unraced due to a field injury. Her 1/2 brother by Highbrite is an extraordinary athlete with an amazing gallop.
Any suggestions are appreciated thanks!
Turf sires I like (others may have differing opinions)
Perfect Soul: He is the only stallion in north America that has sired multiple grade 1 winners and available for only $2000. From Fipke’s great breeding program. He is the only son of Sadlers Wells standing in America. He will be 20 this year so he is getting up there in age. He is a very affordable option, proven pedigree, proven offspring. He is out of a mare by Secretariat. Expect to get a strong foal, good bone, tough horse.
Blame: Arch son out of a Seeking the Gold mare. Currently stands for 12,500. #5 turf stallion
Red Rocks: 10k at Calumet. By the great turf sire Galileo. He is stunningly beautiful. Very successful on turf on the track including breeders cup winnings. Fort he price and his record/pedigree I think he is tremendous value
Air Force Blue- Stands for 20k at Ashford. By War Front. He had a tremendous race record on turf and some of the top tracks in Europe. Very handsome, balanced stallion
Grey Swallow: 5k at Calumet. Irish bred stallion. I’ve always admired him; his build and quality of bone. Big, sound feet. He was successful on turf in Ireland. Outcross pedigree might be something neat to consider.
Producer: 5k at Calumet. British bred out of a france mare. same immediate family as honor code and grand reward.
Flintshire: 20k at Hill n Dale. If I had 20k and a mare I would certainly not look past him. You really wont find a better turf bred stallion in the states.
Tourist: 12.5k at winstar. Raced primarily on dirt. Very successful out of a very good producing Unbridled Song mare. Very balanced, correct horse. I think he will add size and scale to a smaller mare.
Data Link: 5k at Claiborne. Another turf sire that I think has tremendous value for his stud fee. He’s very handsome, very correct.
First Samurai- 15k at Claiborne. Top runners are on turf and dirt.
Vancouver- 15k at Ashford. By Medaglia D’oro
Lea: 5k at Claiborne. By First Samurai and out of a mare sire by the great Galileo. Turf, turf and turf!!
Astern- 15k at Darley: Medaglia D’oro x Exceed and Excel. Turf raced and turf winner
Behesht: Standing for 5k at calumet. Sea the Stars out of irish bred mare. all turf in his pedigree. his photo doesn’t really do him much justice.
Big Blue Kitten- 15k at Calumet. by America’s #1 turf sire, Kittens Joy. Raced through his 7 yr old season. Hardy stallion, sound.
Bird Song; I think his value is tremendous at 5k. If I had mares I would certainly jump on the bandwagon. His female line is tremendous
Brody’s Cause: 12.5k. I know he only raced on dirt but being a Giants Causeway I think he might be worth considering.
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I’d look for/at a Mr Prospector/Raise A Native line stallion.
At this time in the breeding season don’t take the the advertised fee as written in stone. Depending on things there is usually a bit of room to move.Sometimes a lot. Depends on who is making the call to book. Esp late in the breeding season.
@Snaffle Wow thank you so much that’s a near overwhelming list! I definitely agree about Bird Song, looks like he’s a bit new and I could see the stud fee going up a good bit before long.
I’m just trying to decide if I’m going to race her at all… she sticks at 15.2 but I’m constantly re measuring because she just looks so tiny. I guess my eye just forgot what 15.2 looks like, which isn’t necessarily THAT small, but all my other horses are 16.2 plus.
And I definitely am expecting prices to fluctuate a lot, especially if I wait to breed her… I have an incredible gelding by Broken Vow, whose stud fee went from something like 15,000 to 25,000 since he was bred. Kind of wish he hadn’t been gelded :lol:
We did just fine racing a Lemon Drop Kid filly who is 15.2. And another COTH poster just won a debut maiden special weight at Gulfstream with a filly who doesn’t look very big either.
You can see the race here: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/uncaptured-filly-speeds-away-to-impressive-gulfstream-unveiling/
I had a horse in the barn who wasn’t quite 15.1 who raced for many years successfully. I think they tend to stay sound longer as well; less size and mass to them.
speaking of Uncaptured offspring, @LaurieB , why not consider him as well> 6000 stud fee. really great prices on his early 2 year olds. For that price; I think he’s definitely worth a look even though he’s in florida. Buyers must really like the looks of his offspring on the track. Not to mention he is a stunning invidual, very correct, balanced.
Ocala Stud has some nice sires on offer for affordable prices.
***another poster in another thread bred their mare to Tiznow. It’s late in the breeding season so deals are to be had!! Even if you wait until next year and breed a bit later; many of these farms are extremely accommodating. Take your time, I advise visiting any of the stallions you’re interested in for next year. There are so many potential great mating’s available. If I had a broodmare; my style is not to breed for the sales (what sells on the big screen). My personal style is to make, what I think, is the best breeding choice to get the best outcome.
Birdsong is very early in his career so they could sell real well at the sales if they are made right. he has the pedigree and race record.
my list above is only KY based stallions which are often a bit pricier.
Treasure Beach (GB) 10k fee. I would definitely consider him if you’re willing to breed in FL. By the great Galileo. Very nice looking stallion. G1 winner. Raced in 7 different countries. $2.4 million in earnings.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/167004/treasure-beach-gb
I really like Biondetti also. Bernardini x Lyphard. He had a really decent track record on turf and Bernardini’s are also equally good on dirt in North America.
Irish Surf: Giants Causeway x Seattle Slew. $5k.
Fury Kapcori: He had a nice race record but I like him more for his pedigree. Tiznow out of a Go for Gin mare. $3k live foal.
Jess’s Dream: I know his race record was horrendous but if you’re willing to take a gamble on not much a race record but an impeccable family-tree; his 5k asking price might suit you
Ride on Curlin: Curlin x Storm Cat. $5k fee. Super strong, powerful, well-made stallion. He was 2nd in the Preakness. He had a nice race record. hard trying horse
The following are standing in Maryland:
Madefromlucky: 5k fee. Dam is a full sister to TAPIT. $1.3 in earnings. Graded stakes winner. I think he is an incredible value and I think he would look quite nice on a lucky pulpit mare
Divining Rod: Tapit x Catienus. $5k
https://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/170134/divining-rod
Dortmund (Big Brown x Tale of the Cat). Big brown has made some nice turf runners
https://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/169979/dortmund
Golden Lad: Medaglia D’oro x Seeking the Gold. I think he will add the size and athletic ability you both seek in your Lucky Pulpit mares. Really nice, proven maternal line
https://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/169038/golden-lad
New York Stallions I’d consider:
A Shin Forward: I think its an incredible thing to have him back in the states. G1 winner on turf. From the family of fappiano. $3.4 million in earnings. I hope US breeders receive him well here. Breeding to him would be merely a fun thing for me; breeding to improve the line not to sell for profit at the sales
Mission Impazible: Tapit son. HUBBA HUBBA. $1.2 million in earnings. $7500 stud fee. He raced very well in graded company for quite a few years and retired sound.
Giant Surprise: 4k . Don’t mind his leg injury, its kind of scary but other than that I think he is a great individual. He has had pretty decent success with his offspring on the track even though his race record was limited
Laoban: Uncle Mo x Speightstown $7500 fee
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as far as this goes
Sons available by Mr. P are as follows:
Cape Canaveral (Standing in Alberta for 3,000 Canadian) HIs dam is by Seattle Slew
Fusaichi Pegasus: Standing at Coolmore for $7500
Greatness: Standing for $3500 in 2018 at Prestige Stallions in FL. His dam was by Danzig
Mojave Moon:
Stallions available out of Mr. P mares:
Congrats: $17,500 at Winstar. By AP Indy
Dr Large: $2500 in NY . By AP Indy
Gemologist: $15,000 at Winstar. By Tiznow
There’s a pretty powerful cluster breeding pattern between descendants of the mare Incantation and descendants of Hold Your Peace and Deputy Minister that you might consider tapping into.
Other than Chrome, Lucky Pulpit’s best descendants came from the Deputy Minister sireline…Awesome Again (Rousing Sermon), Dehere (Luckarack and his three full brothers), Forest Camp (Lucky Views), War Deputy (Battle Shout). He had two runners for two winners out of a French Deputy mare. That’s way outperforming opportunity.
The other big horse from Incantation’s direct female line is Unbridled’s Song, and that cluster breeding pattern was also successful with him. His two best racing sons are both out of mares with Deputy Minister close up (Dehere for Will Take Charge, Deputy Minister out of a Meadowlake mare for Arrogate), and to date his best son at stud bred on that cross (Mission Impazible, out of a Hold Your Peace mare who also produced Forest Camp) is doing much better than most Unbridled’s Song sons at stud so far (improving his mares, getting useful runners).
Other names that keep coming up over and over with this pattern are Stop the Music (out of a Tom Fool mare) and Sir Ivor/Drone (similarly bred).
Stallions that will tap into that cluster pattern:
Daaher ($5,000 in Kentucky-- son of Awesome Again who has WAY outperformed opportunity)
Awesome of Course ($4000 in Florida, really good stallion but probably not what you want if you’re concerned about size)
Midnight Lute ($15,000 and a good value for that, size not a problem)
Oxbow ($20,000 but I don’t see him staying there)
Paynter ($12,500 and he looks the better horse of the two genetic siblings)
Mission Impazible ($7500 in New York, I wouldn’t be afraid of Unbridled’s Song)
Custom for Carlos ($3500 in Louisiana and has a Gr-1 winner out of a mare with Dehere breeding)
Daaher and Custom for Carlos look like your best value for money. Midnight Lute, if you can get him for $10k, is most likely who you want if you want commercial possibilities as well as breeding to race.
