Stallion owners beware! SHOTS!!!

Guys, just so you know - in urban and suburban southern California, vets do not vaccinate horses for rabies. I asked several vets about it several times and they all told me that if it was really really really important to me, that they would do it, but that they thought it was totally unnecessary. I pressed them on this - even if I was eventing all over the state, sometimes in rural areas? Nope, they didn’t want to vaccinate my horse for rabies.

Where I am now, in rural Northern California, vaccinating for rabies is routine.

As I have always given rabies, I called my vet’s office to see if I was the only one. I most definitely am not, and I was told by the office person, as has been mentioned here, that rabies is considered a core vaccine. My vet isn’t a field vet for UC Davis but is a Davis grad and still has a lot of connection with them. When I said that it had been mentioned that even UC Davis field vets didn’t recommend or give them, he strongly disagreed. Since in California rabies is only required for dogs, cats aren’t lawfully required to have it either. However, rabies is found in cats and recently an injured kitten in San Ramon, a No. CA town, bit a vet trying to help it and everyone involved had to be treated as the kitten tested positive for rabies.

While I don’t know of any rabies cases in horses, so far this year, there are 92 reported cases of rabies (mostly in skunks) in our State according to CDPH. I agree w/ other posters - rabies is a core vaccine. I am not a fan of over-vaccinating, but for something like rabies or WNV or tetanus (fatal diseases), it just makes more sense to vaccinate.

California does allow home quarantine, I know someone who did it with a cat (who caught a rabid bat).

“Liar”… what are you 8??? LOL! I will say, along with some of the other Californians, I’ve grown up in southern CA and we’ve NEVER vaccinated for rabies nor has it been recommended. NO ONE I know vaccinates for it either, whether it’s small places out in the sticks or big show barns. That’s my experience, period. I wouldn’t have thought to vaccinate for it either. OP, I’m sorry you’re going through this, at least your boy is home with you. I thought they had taken him away, that would truly be awful! Hopefully you can keep him entertained in the meantime. :wink:

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/HealthInfo/discond/Documents/Rabies/Reported%20Animal%20Rabies/2013%20RAR%20Table.pdf

As of Aug 27 no horses in CA have been reported as having rabies.

That does not equate to no horses have contracted rabies - don’t think it does.

92 cases reported as of that date. Don’t think that means there weren’t more that went unreported for a variety of reasons.

[QUOTE=poltroon;7147378]
Guys, just so you know - in urban and suburban southern California, vets do not vaccinate horses for rabies. I asked several vets about it several times and they all told me that if it was really really really important to me, that they would do it, but that they thought it was totally unnecessary. I pressed them on this - even if I was eventing all over the state, sometimes in rural areas? Nope, they didn’t want to vaccinate my horse for rabies.

Where I am now, in rural Northern California, vaccinating for rabies is routine.[/QUOTE]

That is really interesting! I’m in NorCal, and everyone I know (of course, in NorCal) vaccinates for rabies, and every vet I know recommends it. I wonder WHY the difference in SoCal? Looking at the CDPH reports, So-Cal has its share of rabies in wild animals? Sometimes it is like we live in different states here in California!

[QUOTE=JB;7147905]As of Aug 27 no horses in CA have been reported as having rabies.

That does not equate to no horses have contracted rabies - don’t think it does.

92 cases reported as of that date. Don’t think that means there weren’t more that went unreported for a variety of reasons.[/QUOTE]

You are correct JB - these are just cases reported to the Ca Dept of Public Health. So a horse who simply died, or was euthanized for unknown reasons is not reported. If a horse is identified by a vet as rabid, they must report it. But many times, people just have their sick older horses put down - or (sad to say), they just let them die.

I don’t think horses are a HIGH risk - but if they live outside, they are at risk. My horses are all out on pasture - we have skunks, coyotes, bats, feral cats and dogs, etc - for that reason, I vaccinate. Better safe then sorry.

[QUOTE=JB;7144601]
I’ve never been to a show that required proof of rabies vaccination either, and I’m smack dab in the middle of Rabies country.

I never get a cert either. However, it IS on record with the vet - date, batch number, etc.[/QUOTE]

When I showed on the east coast in 2002 (NEDA and DAD - we flew) I was only required to have a health certificate and Coggins. My horse had an FEI passport that contained his other vaccines. I was NOT required to have rabies then, only had to show the health certificate and Coggins when we landed at JFK and then again a copy was appended to my entries.

The six months quarantine really seems like overkill though. I don’t understand it.

[QUOTE=Ibex;7142965]
Or some people live in areas with no reported cases of Rabies :slight_smile: It has historically stopped at the mountains. Heck, I don’t think Alberta vaccinates for Rabies as a matter of course either, unless horses are heading into an area where it’s endemic (Great Lakes and parts further east).[/QUOTE]

that is because nothing wounded goes uphill! (:

When we moved from NY to Hawaii, in 1975, we brought with us our first dog, a Golden Retriever. He was vaccinated against rabies before we left the East Coast. He went into Hawaii’s compulsory 4 months quarantine on our arrival. Over the years, we imported several more Goldens from the mainland, and they, too, went through 4 months quarantine. Back in the '80s, I became besotted with the Norwich Terrier, acquired by way of England. Hawaii honored the UK’s rabies-free status and permitted English dogs to enter Hawaii without going through the obligatory quarantine, ONLY IF those dogs entered the 50th State in a sealed crate on a direct flight from the UK. At the time, the only flights I could arrange, were those on Continental, which flew through Denver or Dallas (could be Houston, I can’t recall). The crates weren’t permitted to be unloaded and their place in the hold had to be verified by a pilot. When the second leg of the flight continued on to Hawaii, that seal on the crate had to be intact or the dog would be quarantined for 4 months. I was told that the dogs had to remain in their crates on the Mainland because of the threat of rabies from bats in the hangars.

Years later, when we moved from Hawaii to the UK, I had to have all 15 of my dogs vaccinated against rabies before we flew to LA, and then on to England. Every one of those dogs was born in Hawaii or the UK, both rabies-free. Before we flew to LA, I had an interesting conversation with the official vet at California’s Department of Health (or whatever it is called now). He implored me to have my dogs vaccinated against rabies before leaving Hawaii, despite the fact that all of them would be vaccinated upon arriving in England and spending 6 months of quarantine there (England did not honor Hawaii’s rabies-free status). He said the biggest threat was from bats, especially at the airport. He explained that the time of year we were planning on arriving in LA, coincided with the bats’ migration north from Mexico (I didn’t know bats migrated, so that was worrying news). I had all the dogs (6 Goldens and 9 Norwich) vaccinated, without incident, before we left. And, yes, they were re-vaccinated upon arrival in England.

Rabies vaccination in Hawaii and the UK is not obligatory. However, since the UK is part of the EU, properly vaccinated dogs can travel from this green and pleasant land to the continent and back as never before. Rabies does exist in all of the other EU member states, so trust in the efficacy of the rabies vaccine is implicit. Hawaii’s quarantine laws are now quite different from when I was resident there. It may be that the vaccine is used/recommended more now than years before.

I must relate a rather horrifying story regarding rabies in horses. Many years ago, probably back in the '70s, the Australian breeder of a friend’s dogs, had occasion to be in Europe on a fact-finding trip regarding the prevalence of rabies in domestic animals. He was in France, with several other people involved in this research. They were called to a farm where a horse was in the active stage of rabies. No one was permitted to be anywhere near the animal, and were witnessing his death-throes through binoculars. Because he was lathered and agitated, he was dispatched from a considerable distance with a high-powered rifle, for fear that his sweat and saliva would contaminate any of the people present. If anyone needs more encouragement to vaccinate horses against rabies, the mental picture of that suffering animal should be reason enough.

Unvaccinated horses out at pasture are probably more likely to contract rabies than any other “pets,” given that they are in the environment of wild animals that harbor the disease for many uninterrupted and unwitnessed hours. At the time of the above story, the statistics for rabies in animals which are in close contact with man, was horses, then dogs, and then cats in descending order.

[QUOTE=equusaround;7142316]
In hindsight apparently I should have vaccinated to avoid a quarantine…but, rabies vaccines are not required for HORSES in CA.

The Secretary of Health declared the entire state a rabies concern so that (IMHO as a jaded attorney) dog license fees would automatically be increased $2.50 per license without having to pass the legislature or be voted upon by the populace.

It was all about money and now my horse (who does NOT have rabies and has never been bitten by anything bigger than a fly or a mosquito) will spend 6 months being unable to be out and about!

Like I said, he lives in the suburbs - he had a bigger exposure to being bit by a rabid shopper at the local Neiman Marcus, Tiffany’s or Nordstrom if he blocked their access to a sale, than being bit by a rabid animal (tennis moms can be vicious!) ;)[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry, but just becaise your horse lives in the suburbs doesn’t mean that it can"t be exposed to rabies. Racoons, bats and possums, all found in the “suburbs” can and do carry rabies, along with stray cats.

I have difficulty understanding your attitude about not vacinating your horse against rabies. Would you rather take the chance of your stallion contracting rabies, regardless of whether it is required by law? Really?

Rutland, that was fascinating reading. I never would have thought of bats being a danger to dogs being flown. I am already a believer when it come to giving horses the rabies vaccine. That lesson was learned the hard way by horse owners and their vets in my area about 20 years ago when a rabid horse exposed almost 20 people before being correctly diagnosed.

[QUOTE=RutlandH2O;7148812]
When we moved from NY to Hawaii, in 1975, we brought with us our first dog, a Golden Retriever. He was vaccinated against rabies before we left the East Coast. He went into Hawaii’s compulsory 4 months quarantine on our arrival. Over the years, we imported several more Goldens from the mainland, and they, too, went through 4 months quarantine. Back in the '80s, I became besotted with the Norwich Terrier, acquired by way of England. Hawaii honored the UK’s rabies-free status and permitted English dogs to enter Hawaii without going through the obligatory quarantine, ONLY IF those dogs entered the 50th State in a sealed crate on a direct flight from the UK. At the time, the only flights I could arrange, were those on Continental, which flew through Denver or Dallas (could be Houston, I can’t recall). The crates weren’t permitted to be unloaded and their place in the hold had to be verified by a pilot. When the second leg of the flight continued on to Hawaii, that seal on the crate had to be intact or the dog would be quarantined for 4 months. I was told that the dogs had to remain in their crates on the Mainland because of the threat of rabies from bats in the hangars.

Years later, when we moved from Hawaii to the UK, I had to have all 15 of my dogs vaccinated against rabies before we flew to LA, and then on to England. Every one of those dogs was born in Hawaii or the UK, both rabies-free. Before we flew to LA, I had an interesting conversation with the official vet at California’s Department of Health (or whatever it is called now). He implored me to have my dogs vaccinated against rabies before leaving Hawaii, despite the fact that all of them would be vaccinated upon arriving in England and spending 6 months of quarantine there (England did not honor Hawaii’s rabies-free status). He said the biggest threat was from bats, especially at the airport. He explained that the time of year we were planning on arriving in LA, coincided with the bats’ migration north from Mexico (I didn’t know bats migrated, so that was worrying news). I had all the dogs (6 Goldens and 9 Norwich) vaccinated, without incident, before we left. And, yes, they were re-vaccinated upon arrival in England.

Rabies vaccination in Hawaii and the UK is not obligatory. However, since the UK is part of the EU, properly vaccinated dogs can travel from this green and pleasant land to the continent and back as never before. Rabies does exist in all of the other EU member states, so trust in the efficacy of the rabies vaccine is implicit. Hawaii’s quarantine laws are now quite different from when I was resident there. It may be that the vaccine is used/recommended more now than years before.

I must relate a rather horrifying story regarding rabies in horses. Many years ago, probably back in the '70s, the Australian breeder of a friend’s dogs, had occasion to be in Europe on a fact-finding trip regarding the prevalence of rabies in domestic animals. He was in France, with several other people involved in this research. They were called to a farm where a horse was in the active stage of rabies. No one was permitted to be anywhere near the animal, and were witnessing his death-throes through binoculars. Because he was lathered and agitated, he was dispatched from a considerable distance with a high-powered rifle, for fear that his sweat and saliva would contaminate any of the people present. If anyone needs more encouragement to vaccinate horses against rabies, the mental picture of that suffering animal should be reason enough.

Unvaccinated horses out at pasture are probably more likely to contract rabies than any other “pets,” given that they are in the environment of wild animals that harbor the disease for many uninterrupted and unwitnessed hours. At the time of the above story, the statistics for rabies in animals which are in close contact with man, was horses, then dogs, and then cats in descending order.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7148235]
The six months quarantine really seems like overkill though. I don’t understand it.[/QUOTE]

Rabies can take some time to develop–it’s not always immediately after infection.

There is a very interesting book out there about rabies:

http://www.amazon.com/Rabid-Cultural-History-Worlds-Diabolical/dp/0143123572

We didn’t used to vaccinate for rabies here in Colorado. It wasn’t recommended as there were no terrestrial reservoirs of the virus in the state. In the last 2-3 years, we’ve seen a massive movement of rabies into skunks and now it is recommended that horses be vaccinated. It was amazing how quickly rabies moved through the state.

[QUOTE=JB;7142566]
Rabies can incubate for up to about 8 weeks[/QUOTE]

.http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/animals/oie/downloads/tahc_mar07/tahc-rabies-75-oct06.pdf

[QUOTE=Simkie;7152208]
Rabies can take some time to develop–it’s not always immediately after infection.

There is a very interesting book out there about rabies:

http://www.amazon.com/Rabid-Cultural-History-Worlds-Diabolical/dp/0143123572

We didn’t used to vaccinate for rabies here in Colorado. It wasn’t recommended as there were no terrestrial reservoirs of the virus in the state. In the last 2-3 years, we’ve seen a massive movement of rabies into skunks and now it is recommended that horses be vaccinated. It was amazing how quickly rabies moved through the state.[/QUOTE]

Yes, rabies can take time to develop, but I thought the animal would not be contagious during the incubation period, before symptoms develop.

I’ll join in with the majority of the other west-coasters and say that up here in Seattle it’s not routine to vaccinate for Rabies and in 30 years I haven’t ever had a horse vaccinated for it until we planned a move to NC a few years back.

When it came time for spring shots that year my vet recommended the Rabies shot since we were going to be moving in (presumably) a short time. But in 12 years of using her as a vet we hadn’t ever done a Rabies shot, and were only doing so to prep for my cross country move.

Given there are rabid bats in King County, and several other Counties in WA, it makes me sad that vets are not recommending rabies vaccines for horses.

It doesn’t matter that it’s a onesy-twosy count for rabid bats (that are identified, never mind any that aren’t). The fact that rabies IS there means animals should be vaccinated.

Have to chime in that rabies vaccine has never been mentioned by any of the vets that did routine vaccinations for my boarders. Only very recently a few bats have tested positive in our area, so maybe they will start pushing it. I asked my vet if she had ever known of any horses with rabies around here and she said never, only saw one in vet school at Davis. She has been in practice for over twenty years and all the vets around here are pretty good at sharing if they come across an outbreak of anything. Anyway, I remembered the quarantine as being 60 days and she even thought that was too long. Six months is nuts.

[QUOTE=JB;7154493]
Given there are rabid bats in King County, and several other Counties in WA, it makes me sad that vets are not recommending rabies vaccines for horses.

It doesn’t matter that it’s a onesy-twosy count for rabid bats (that are identified, never mind any that aren’t). The fact that rabies IS there means animals should be vaccinated.[/QUOTE]

I can’t begin to explain the reasoning, but vaccination wasn’t recommended for equines here in Colorado until terrestrial animals started getting rabies. Once rabies moved into skunks, CSU changed their recommendations.

Rabies first popped in skunks perhaps two year ago in the southern most part of the state, and has moved north with alacrity. CSU even had a rabid animal or two on their VTH campus (buffalo, I think, and last year?)

[QUOTE=Simkie;7155737]
I can’t begin to explain the reasoning, but vaccination wasn’t recommended for equines here in Colorado until terrestrial animals started getting rabies. Once rabies moved into skunks, CSU changed their recommendations.

Rabies first popped in skunks perhaps two year ago in the southern most part of the state, and has moved north with alacrity. CSU even had a rabid animal or two on their VTH campus (buffalo, I think, and last year?)[/QUOTE]

See my post #57. :slight_smile: