Stallion Recs for TB mare

[Arzny]

I have been absolutely sick to my stomach recently, as my lovely mare had a career ending injury a few weeks ago. I had Emerald in the tank, so tried that and she checked empty today. So after spending a bit feeling sorry for myself, I’m turning my attention to other stallion choices.

We are now going to wait until spring, but I’d love to hear jumper stallion recommendations for this mare.

What I am hoping to improve: scope and hip

What I want to keep: shorter height and amateur friendly brain

Mare has a USEF record a mile long and has been champion at essentially every venue she’s shown at. Ending her sport career so early is truly heartbreaking.

Of course, color is on the wish list. Mare is Smokey black.

Pedigree attached

[CuriosoJorge]

Where does the creme gene come from? I’m not seeing it.

Is this a keeper foal or something you would want to sell? I would strongly caution you about the marketability of offspring from a TB damline. Yes she has a show record. At mostly sub 1m. I understand sentimental attachment to horses but you would be better served buying a foal that meets your criteria.

[Arzny]

This is a foal for me.

Not sure about the cream - I tested her for fun a few years back and that’s what I got back. Never questioned it but who knows.

[JB]

What’s her JC name? There aren’t many dilute lines in the TB, and I think I know most of them (when I see them, not that I could rattle them off), none of the names in the pedigree ring a bell.

Oh, and who did the testing? One lab in particular is notorious for screwing up basic tests - Etalon

[kaya842]

Why not try Emerald again? Or are you wanting fresh only?

[Arzny]

He is the plan unless I can find fresh from a stallion I really like!

[Arzny]

@JB

What’s her JC name? There aren’t many dilute lines in the TB, and I think I know most of them (when I see them, not that I could rattle them off), none of the names in the pedigree ring a bell.

Oh, and who did the testing? One lab in particular is notorious for screwing up basic tests - Etalon

It might have been Etalon - I just remember they were having a sale and it wasn’t much money. I’ll try to go back and find the actual results.

[JB]

So, consider that most likely she’s not smoky black I’ll check with a couple of people to see if they recognize someone there with hidden cream, because buckskins with the JC are still registered bay, even though they now recognize palomino. They don’t recognize smoky black at all, and I bet most of those would be registered as bay anyway, or black if they truly didn’t have light hairs.

So, if you want to consider the possibility of a pali/buckskin, that changes who you look at

[Arzny]

I prefer spots to dilute, so that’s better news to me!

[kaya842]

Not sure which ring you ride in and haven’t seen any of his offspring undersaddle but Grimoire D’elphen will be offered fresh next year and I’ve been drooling over him! He is just lovely to watch. He is currently in the hunter ring but I believe he was doing show jumping in the EU prior to import.

[Arzny]

I actually saw a photo of him yesterday and was loving him. Every offspring I saw was too young to be under saddle. I might shoot the owner a message and see if they have any going under saddle.

Definitely breeding for a jumper, but I’m hoping to ride it so a hunter stallion would not offend me.

[weixiao]

What’s your idea of “shorter”? 16 hands and under? 17 hands and under? How big is your mare? Is she FFS tested? Any studbooks you want to stay with? Are you looking just for fresh options or alternative frozen options too?

A few fresh options that come to mind for rideability, scope, and not too much height are:

Spy Coast

• Cyklon 1083 (if you like dilutes, he also has a buckskin son at stud, Corteo W5, but I’m not familiar with him and I’m not sure where he is standing ETA: Looks like he was standing with Tiara Equine this season, not sure if that will continue in 2024 but if you’re interested they would probably be a good point of contact.)
• Grafton
• Pacific des Essarts
• Rexar du Houssoit
• Royce

Hilltop

• Iceman de Muze

EurEquine

• Utopie

Ashland

• Otamendi (young but interesting)

Not sure where he is standing but Clyde VA. I know he has a FB page.

[Warmblood1]

I’m a dressage person so jumper stallions are not my forte, however, if your mare did not take with the recent semen I would suggest looking for a stallion that offers fresh with a LFG.

[weixiao]

I think it could be worth trying Emerald again. One unsuccessful try late in the season wouldn’t be enough to scare me off trying a frozen dose again. I’ve often needed two tries to get mares in foal with frozen. I think Emerald is sold by the straw so depending whether you used one straw or two, you could always go for two if you haven’t tried that already.

If the OP wants to stick with frozen but still want a LFG or at least a multi-dose contract, it might be worth looking at some of those options. One advantage to frozen is you don’t have to worry as much about collection schedules or shipping delays. Even if you go for a multi-dose contract where they only ship a dose at a time you still usually have a larger window than fresh and you’re less likely to miss a cycle due to a shipment getting stuck somewhere. Zangersheide offers multi dose contracts (I’d recommend looking at Utamaro for your mare off the top of my head, based on what you’re looking for), VDL Stud I believe does LFG (Arezzo comes to kind for your mare), and I think some of the stallions offered frozen from New Normandy are LFG contracts.

I’ve got a few other ideas for frozen options too, if you want to go that route and are interested in other ideas, OP, but I also understand liking Emerald and wanting to stick with that if you do try frozen again too!

[Arzny]

So the Emerald semen we tried was absolute crap. My vet was horrified by it. Unfortunately it is a seemingly common thing with Emerald recently. All being said, I am totally willing to try frozen again with her.

For the mare, she is 15.3-16 hands. I want to stay around that height. A little bigger/smaller is fine. 17 hands is not fine, lol.

I am planning to test her for FFS over the winter. I am not married to any particular studbook, though BWP or KWPN would be nice since I wouldn’t have to inspect her!

I love, love, love horses with lots of blood so have been considering going full TB, to a stallion approved Westfalen.

[weixiao]

Sorry to hear about the bad frozen quality. Maybe not the color you want but if you like a lot of blood, have you considered Grey Butt aka Grey Boulevard? He’s about 60% blood and should give you some of that G-line power and scope on top of the blood. He’s jumping 1.35m but his foals are all still quite young.

I keep thinking of greys but check out Rahotep de Toscane and Clicksem as well.

[Nootka]

I am going to throw my stallion out there because he might be a good cross. His foals that are undersaddle now have a great jump and he does improve the hindend.

He is lifetime approved with KNN Knabstrupper and all scores and has videos on my website. He is one of very few jumping damlines in Knabstruppers in NA.

Drauma Hestar: Knabstrupper Stallion Pyxis av Drömmarna (draumahestarknabstruppers.com)

[Arzny]

Lovely!

Can you explain, from the genetics side, if there’s any chance of getting one of the varnish, mottled types from breeding your stallion to a solid colored mare? I think appys/knabstruppers are very cute but I do not like the look of the varnish colored ones.

Edit: autocorrect hates knabstruppers

[JB]

@Arzny

Can you explain, from the genetics side, if there’s any chance of getting one of the varnish, mottled types from breeding your stallion to a solid colored mare? I

LP is what causes varnishing so yes, breeding to a horse with appy spots gives you at least a 50/50 chance of getting LP, depending on the actual genetics. Spots required the presence of LP + a pattern (PATN) gene, so if you see spots, you know they are at least LP/lp

[Nootka]

Since he is heterozygous, he will pass on spots 50% of the time. Spotty genetics are kinda complicated and not extremely well known.

There is a possibility of varnish and totally understand your concern.

This explans a little bit more about the color combinations

Drauma Hestar: Offspring by Pyxis av Drömmarna (draumahestarknabstruppers.com)