Stallion size

This article comes from today’s The Blood Horse Pedigree Weekly. It doesn’t have an article link yet.

Anne Peters is one of the most respected TB race breeding experts in the world. And I believe that what she has to say about horse size is interesting, given that WB breeding has sales that are somewhat equivalent to TB sales. But WBs also are given more time to mature. Big two year old WBs are most likely not pounded the way young race horses are.

Does anything in this article “speak” to you? Or, as is my thought, does maturation occur at a fixed rate in each horse that does not necessarily have any thing to do with size? Or do you think size determines maturation rate?

Is bigger better?

By Anne Peters

Talk to a group of horse people about conformation and you’ll get as many differing opinions as you have bystanders. Racing lore says that a good, big horse can beat a good, little horse, or wait, is it the other way around? There are examples for either side of the argument, but is there an answer to this age-old question?

Over the last few centuries the Thoroughbred has grown from something averaging around 15 hands, to today, when 16 hands is—believe it or not—considered average for the breed. To most breeders 16 hands just doesn’t cut it anymore. They want a big stallion to sire a big yearling that will look like a 2-year-old in the sale ring. They want size because buyers are looking for size, meaning that smaller stallions often start at a disadvantage.

Fortunately the cream rises to the top, expected or not. The two most expensive stallions in the United States are Tapit, who tops out at 16 hands, and War Front, at 15.3. Smaller size hasn’t been a disqualifier for either. Then there’s Distorted Humor at 15.3 hands; Speightstown at 15.3 1/2 hands; Awesome Again, More Than Ready, City Zip, Into Mischief, Exchange Rate, and Afleet Alex, all 16 hands. Tale of the Cat is 15.3 1/2 hands, English Channel is 15.3 hands. They’re not big, but they’re doing just fine as sires.

Over the last several decades most of the leading sires tended to be average or below average, 16 hands or under. Mr. Prospector, Storm Cat, Seattle Slew, A.P. Indy, Gone West, El Prado, and Smart Strike were, or are, 16 hands. Halo was 15.3 hands. Danzig, at 15.3 hands and Lyphard at 15.2, were both taller than their sire Northern Dancer.

ow let’s look at the other extreme with the big boys, which until recently included the very high-class 17 handers Dynaformer, who died in 2012 and Unbridled’s Song, who died in 2013. The top-drawer proven big horse is Tiznow at 16.3 hands. Others include the classy Hard Spun, Quality Road, Midnight Lute, and now Temple City, all at 16.3 or taller. Alert readers will note that this is a distinctly shorter paragraph than the one listing the smaller active stallions.

In fact, from this group—Kentucky-based proven successful sires standing for $12,500 or more—the smaller sires (16 hands or under) outnumber the really big sires (16.3 hands or over) 12 to 5. Stallions in between, taller than 16.0 hands but under 16.3, make up the majority, by the way.

So, if the market demands a big yearling, how come more extra-large horses don’t command higher stud fees? One reason is that really big horses can be inconsistent in siring top-class runners due to developmental and soundness issues. They tend to be later maturing as their bones, ligaments, and tendons need more time to develop the strength to carry their greater body mass. Some yearlings are just too big or going through an odd growth spurt at sale time. Many a big, forward-looking youngster has been pushed too hard, too early, and injured before his legs were ready for it.

Smaller horses don’t carry the extra mass, so the same level of training is not as punishing on their bones and joints. All other things being equal, smaller to average-sized horses are just easier to keep sound, so more make it to the races and stay in training longer.

Clearly there is a discrepancy between what the market demands and the sires that are having the most actual racetrack success. The bias against smaller stallions is based on an artificial standard set in the sale ring, not on the track.

The most common sense solution is for breeders to be able to take advantage of the good, smaller-to-average-sized stallions by sending them mares that are at least average-to-large in size and type. This requires a little extra effort on the part of mare owners to know their stock and the stallions better.

Breeding without these physical considerations is really breeding blind, no matter how good the match looks on paper.

I strongly encourage breeders to concentrate on the classic big (but not too big), roomy broodmare, since these can be bred to a wider range of stallions. A small mare, especially for a commercial breeder, can be a real liability since her stallion choices are more limited.

So, while there may be no true answer to the “good, big horse” versus “good, little horse” question, breeders should pay more attention to the often overlooked “good, little horse” as a stallion.

great comment!

size doesn’t matter and truley is not a question of quality.
however:
tb breeding and wb breeding are two different things.

nature has it, that there is a perfect size to every creature to suit natural survival best.
if you look at wild horses you will find their natural size comparable to comon tb size. 15+ but certainly below 16 hands.
there is a reason for that to suit horses best that size.
the article names a few.

sport horse disciplines can be divided into two groups:
those who are performance-only driven and those, who are fashion driven.
racing is speed driven only and while man does try to influence race horse breeding by “fashion driven” influences (size…) yet, speed is the most convincing factor. since (small) size doesn’t affect speed and bigger horses have not proven to be faster in general, tbs as a race have developed their naturally given “best fit size” around 16 hands. i certainly back that article.
jockeys, at the same time, are small and light, thus, size truly doesen’t matter.

dressage and jumping are different.
many sport horse riders are big and as such require a bigger horse.
understandable when it comes to riders of 1,80+ meters for the simple reason of “size fit” when in saddle.

however, most horses are ridden by women and many of these perfectly suit “naturally given horse hight” of no more than 16 hands or below.
they are perfect matches to horses of that hight.
yet, they require a big horse of 1,70.

i wonder why?
size of a horse is certainly not a criteria of quality, no matter if gaites (dressage) or jumping.

Thoroughbred to Thoroughbred is breeding two purebreds while Warmbloods are crossbreds and therefore you will get a wider variety of sizes.

I understand that, but what I found interesting are her comments on “fashion” at the sales. And that she has suggestions on how to achieve the wanted sales look.

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Small sales yearlings are typically looked over. Compared to their bigger, filled out peers, they seem “backward” or lacking in quality. Most buyers are smart enough to check the foaling date and make allowances in size for late foals (May/June). Truly though, if the horse ticks the boxes in every other way-- pedigree page, balance, walk, athletic look-- plenty of buyers will pay for the smaller horse. Tapit is not known for throwing size (Tonalist gets it from the Pleasant Colony) and he sells like hotcakes.

As for some of the other “average/small” sires listed…I keep in mind that height has some correlation with the grandparents too. The stallion himself may be smallish, but throw to his sire/damsire height. My mare is a solid 16.1, while her sire (by ND) was barely 15.1. Her colt (by a 16.3 sire) is average/smallish as a two year old, and I expect he’ll be about 16h when he finishes.

It isn’t news to anyone that buyers gravitate towards larger and more developed looking yearlings. She is spot on with her recommendation to choose larger bodied broodmares to give wider breeding options. And I also agree that it is true that those bigger youngsters (TBs) do tend to have more issues unless given more time to grow and develop. There’s just so much pressure in the TB industry for horses to race early, I think that smaller horses often have a better chance of competing successfully in that scenario. I think it is hard sometimes for owners to hear that the horse that was their gorgeous, impressive yearling that everyone admired last year is now going to need more time as a two year old. There’s definitely often a difference between breeding to sell and breeding to race.

One thought that does jump out after reading her article is that I think that those larger size Thoroughbreds are rarer in general. If you looked at the sizes of stallions in the Stallion Register, quite a large percentage ARE 16.0 or smaller. To complicate the issue, here’s another observation of mine. I have NEVER seen a proper (equine) measuring stick in any TB barn. Maybe they keep them hidden and locked away, but my experience is that many TB heights are based on an overly generous guesstimate.

In the case of stallions this may be that stallion owners KNOW that mare owners have a bias against breeding to smaller stallions and therefore fudge the height as an advertising tactic. I do own a proper stick and measure horses all the time and I track the growth of the youngsters I raise, so I think I have a pretty decent handle on estimating heights, and more often than not when I go look at stallions or take a mare to the breeding shed it is obvious to me that the stallions are quite a bit smaller than listed in their advertisements.

I do not think that a sport horse always has to be tall. I think for example the showjumper Jappeloup was quite small.
Found his hight: https://www.facebook.com/cavalloridingclub/posts/394258714047531
1.58 metres.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNWN-mQkhVs

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8042550]
I understand that, but what I found interesting are her comments on “fashion” at the sales. And that she has suggestions on how to achieve the wanted sales look.[/QUOTE]

America has always had a love affair with BIG. Seems like whenever we get our hands on a breed the first thing we want to do is make them bigger. Seen it happen with horses, dogs, cattle, etc.

I think if you will go through the sizes of the “greats” of the last 50 yrs (farther back if you want to) you will see the “average” height of the typical TB has been 15.2-16hh. I do not consider 2" a big deal.

Most of the “small” horses the author listed are within .5-1" of 16hhs, so (to me) they aren’t really small.

There is a fundamental difference between a line that matures early and a line that ends up larger that average. There is very often a difference.

I’ve owned an Arab mare who consistently produced foals who were 14.2 as yearlings (big for an Arab), but they were done at 3 yrs and 15.1hh (still big for an Arab).

And I have a WB who FINALLY made it to 16.2-16.3hh, but it took her 6 yrs to do so. Her foals tend to be the same way…average or below average as yearlings/two year olds, but by the time they are 5-6 yrs old they are well over 16hh. My friends foals typically are HUGE as yearlings & 2 yr olds but they finish early as well.

I think the TB breeder who wants to sell his foals as yearlings would pick stallions who sire early maturers, but that is NOT the same thing as large adults.

It’s also interesting that some of the very, very best TB stallions would never make it through the WB height cutoff for stallions. I wonder if the registries have a different height cutoff for TB stallions than WB ones. Anyone know?

No, the studbooks do not have a different height cutoff but they do accept a 1.62 metres high stallion if they like the horse.

One of my TBs is very big- he’s 17.2. He’s also an amazing athlete. I have a very petite TB mare, too. She’s 16h but very refined. She’s also an amazing athlete.

A good horse is a good horse regardless of size.

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8047425]
It’s also interesting that some of the very, very best TB stallions would never make it through the WB height cutoff for stallions. I wonder if the registries have a different height cutoff for TB stallions than WB ones. Anyone know?[/QUOTE]

I know they (the WB registries) are willing to accept
“shorter” horses if they are good enough. Weltmeyer won everything that could be won during his stallion testing, etc.

I have a great friend & breeder who has stood next to him several times (well, she did when he was alive) and said he was MAYBE a hair over 16hh if he was excited. Since they do stallion testing when they are 2.5 yrs, I’d be willing to bet Welty was under 16hh at the time.

But man!! What POWER!! I think they might be pickier if it’s a non-WB breed, like TB or Arab.

One horse noted specifically in the article is Pleasant
colony. I can say he throws both big ( have seen many offspring 16.3 to 17.1) and late to mature as well. You don’t really see much of him in race breeding anymore. I don’t think the late bloomer part helps at all there.

[QUOTE=camohn;8053484]
One horse noted specifically in the article is Pleasant
colony. I can say he throws both big ( have seen many offspring 16.3 to 17.1) and late to mature as well. You don’t really see much of him in race breeding anymore. I don’t think the late bloomer part helps at all there.[/QUOTE]

I don’t really follow racing much anymore; but it is my understanding that since I was on the track ('71-'81 approx), the breeding focus has changed.

From what I hear, breeders are breeding more for precocious speed and yearlings that look like 2 yr olds.

It doesn’t seem they breed for stamina and toughness anymore or even the classic distances…IMHO this is why the Triple Crown has not been won since I was in racing…

OT abit here. BTW, Forego was a big boy…I think almost 17hh. He ran 4th in the Derby after Secretariat (nobody remembers that…) and went on to race till he was 7-8, IIRC. He DID have bad legs most of his career, but kept on winning.