Stallion wont collect?

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

[QUOTE=szipi;6493705]
Standard procedure is, if not collecting off of the mare (experienced staff at collection facilities can carry this out without incident), is to have the mare on the other side of the breeding dummy. The stallion can reach over the dummy to be teased by mare and when the stallion tries to mount the mare over the breeding dummy, the mare is lead a few steps away. This is also standard procedure when teaching inecperienced stallions how to collect.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=szipi;6494346]
Where I come from, when training horses, success 75% of the time is just not enough. Also, im also not in the position to dink around forever (it’s inefficient, costs too much etc. etc.) - I was taught correct, efficient and expeditious way of handling things.[/QUOTE]

Actually, with Nevada, who did begin his first few years doing live cover, he was a royal pain to collect, when we used the mare to jump, and or a mare right next to the phantom.

It was extremely frustrating as he made a dozen or more jumps before ejaculating each time. One repro vet had us “playing chase me” to the phantom - teasing down, and moving the mare a few steps forward just as he was ready to mount. She was trying to make him really, REALLY frustrated & wild, so he would actually ejaculate, once he actually got to mount something.

Finally, I got set up at home, and built a phantom next to a high window. Instead of adding the mare extreme stimulation, I explored more science. Temperature, pressure, AV type, liner type, different type and amount of lube.

Bingo.

After 3-4 years of 50 frustrating and time consuming collections each year, within a week or so, maybe 5 or 6 collections, I had him collecting easy on the first mount 75% of the time, and always within 3 jumps. This is most of the time without a mare in heat, as I don’t have one. I use just a mare that won’t be really ugly, and that frozen urine sample.

[dilligaff2]

@TrueColours;6495111

I think what was really against us with this particular stallion and situation was that the mare was at a 52 and ovulation was imminent so right from the get go - there was a definitive time frame that we had to work within and as the clock was ticking and he was showing “0” interest in anything, there wasnt time for Plan B, C, D or anything else. There was only time for Plan “A” in a structured time frame and as we found out rather quickly he really didnt give a rats ass who was ovulating when and how inconvenient he was making everything - he wanted no part of it

I thought the main reason for collecting was to get an analysis to check for problems?

I would have the Stallion owner send the poor boy to an experienced handler who can implement Kathy’s suggestions. Maybe some time and patience might not give him the confidence he needs.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6494896]
Yup and yup.

Hauling the mare out and sticking her under the stallion’s nose “will” result in a faster collection. However, because we “do” recognize that a: Not everyone has a ovarectomized or estrus mare standing around; and b: not everyone has the staff around to hold the mare; and c: that collecting a stallion without the drama of HAVING to have a mare to collect “is” more expeditious and efficient in the long run. It “does” require more time and energy initially, but I think our clients are appreciative that we do take the time to train the stallion for ease of collection.

If Plan A doesn’t work, we moveon to Plan B, Plan C, PLan D…whatever it takes. We simply start where we wish to finish. It’s efficient and usually results in a quiet stallion that is easy to collect WITHOUT a mare in the room.

I didn’t “toot” you down, Andras. I simply suggested that “your” definition of the industry standard may not be what others believe it to be. We take the time up front so that we DON’T have to take the time later and we hopefully aren’t creating trainwrecks looking for a place to happen. As Laurierace noted, NOTHING is 100% and that can be said even more when dealing with horses. As we train a considerable number of stallions, including ones like the OP is dealing with, I think we have a pretty good idea of what we are doing ;). If you don’t have the time and view training a stallion as something that MUST be done within a specific time frame, I suggest that you probably would be better off doing something else with your time. Sometimes training doesn’t realize much of a profit and that’s just the breaks.[/QUOTE]

That was a very gracious, first class reply

[Daventry]

@dilligaff2;6495710

I thought the main reason for collecting was to get an analysis to check for problems?

There are many reasons stallions are collected. The #1 reason is to be able to ship semen to a mare, so the mare doesn’t have to come to the stallion to be bred. For example, a warmblood Mare Owner in Minnesota might be extremely limited, as far as stallions within their area. By using shipped semen, there is a limitless choice of stallions across the Country

The other reason to collect rather than live cover is because it usually requires less staff to be involved and is much SAFER for all involved - both humans and horses. One nasty kick from a uncooperative mare could end a stallions career or seriously injure a handler.

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=Daventry;6496239]
There are many reasons stallions are collected. The #1 reason is to be able to ship semen to a mare, so the mare doesn’t have to come to the stallion to be bred. For example, a warmblood Mare Owner in Minnesota might be extremely limited, as far as stallions within their area. By using shipped semen, there is a limitless choice of stallions across the Country

The other reason to collect rather than live cover is because it usually requires less staff to be involved and is much SAFER for all involved - both humans and horses. One nasty kick from a uncooperative mare could end a stallions career or seriously injure a handler.[/QUOTE]

I think dilligaff meant in this particular situation, not in general.

[Daventry]

@EquusMagnificus;6496258

I think dilligaff meant in this particular situation, not in general.

Well duh! :o;):lol: I wasn’t thinking that deep when I read her post. Oh well, maybe I educated a few newbies on the board! :lol:

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=Daventry;6496575]
Well duh! :o;):lol: I wasn’t thinking that deep when I read her post. Oh well, maybe I educated a few newbies on the board! :lol:[/QUOTE]

:lol: It was an excellent explanation indeed. :lol:

[dilligaff2]

[QUOTE=Daventry;6496575]
Well duh! :o;):lol: I wasn’t thinking that deep when I read her post. Oh well, maybe I educated a few newbies on the board! :lol:[/QUOTE]

LOL! No harm no foul. :lol: