Stallions that cross well on Arab mares?

[Halt_Near_X]

Which Dressage stallions are producing proven performance offspring with Arab mares?

I’ve talked hypothetically with someone about custom breeding a nice, proven Arab mare and am trying to decide if this is the route I want to go.

At this stage, I’m really just looking to gather information and think it through.

It would be very useful to know if stallions are known for stamping certain traits in their offspring. If they throw large/small offspring would also be interesting, but I’ve ridden 14 - 17hh horses and care a lot more about ability than height. Color is totally irrelevant.

I know this has come up for discussion before, but search is failing me.

[Twisted_River]

This reminds me of a thread from a while ago, a very successful Arabian cross to Iron Spring Farm’s UB40

Thanks to Google, here is the thread: (she’s posted more current pics of him since then if you search her profile. He is STUNNING!) http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?265180-New-pictures-and-a-video-of-my-UB40xArabian-colt

For good suggestions, you’ve got to include more details about the mare and about what your are hoping to get out of the cross. Pics, video, and pedigree of the mare are also helpful.

[Halt_Near_X]

The UB40 cross is the one that has me thinking.

For good suggestions, you’ve got to include more details about […] what your are hoping to get out of the cross.

This is primarily what I am trying to determine right now. I just want to look at a lot of successful crosses and pull together a list of what I like and don’t like out of Arab/WB crosses. I figured this would be easier to do if I started with stallions “known” to cross well on Arabs. A list of the nice crosses themselves would probably be just as helpful.

Once I know what I want out of the cross (in general), I’ll talk with the mare owner. She’s very experienced and will have no problem telling me if I’m realistic, helping to find the right stallion for her mare, or pointing me to solutions that might work better.

But I’m not there yet. I need more examples of crosses to make sure it’s the cross itself I like and not the few individuals I’ve known personally/already heard of. Clear as mud?

[DownYonder]

The OP asked:

Which Dressage stallions are producing proven performance offspring with Arab mares?

The UB40 colt mentioned above is gorgeous - no doubt about that. But he is only a 3 y/o this year, and is only one representative of a UB40/Arabian cross, so I am not sure, based on this one example, one could categorically recommend UB40 as a proven sire of performance horses from Arabian dams.

The Oldenburg inspectors tell me they have seen lovely Half-Arabian offspring through the years sired by Rosenthal and Ironman. I have also seen several by Rosenthal, including recently - one was quite gorgeous, the other sort of “so-so” (pretty, but didn’t have much in the way of movement, elasticity, etc.), but the quality of the dams was vastly different and it showed in the offspring.

But again, those are foals - not “proven performance offspring”. There was, however, another thread on here recently about an Ironman/Arabian offspring who is out eventing with his teenaged owner, and I have also heard good things about Rosenthal/Arabian crosses doing well. I know of one 6 y/o Rosenthal youngster from an Arabian dam who is earning over 70% in USEF/USDF shows at First Level Test 3, and another 5 y/o earning close to 70% at First Level Test 3. These horses are also showing in the PB/HA/AA competitions and doing well.

[oldernewbie]

PM Stripes, she’s very well versed in Arab/WB crosses. She has bred to several WBs and has a nice Escudo (? something with an E - can you tell I’m not a breeder? :lol:) mare that is under saddle this year I think.

Arab/WB is a great cross and well worth pursuing.

[Molly_Malone]

Trakehner stallions cross well with Arabian mares, and Arabian mares are eligible to be inspected and approved for breeding, so the foal would have full Trakehner papers (if that is something you would want/need/like). There are several ATA stallions that if you talk to the owners can give you more info - EH Herzzauber is the one that immediately springs to mind and Happy Hour is another.

http://americantrakehner.com/stallions/index.asp

[Sonesta]

The warmblood stallion that has undeniably been a proven producer of successful offspring out of Arabian mares is the Oldenburg stallion, Frohwind. If he’s still living, he’d be 29 years old now, so maybe there is frozen semen for him. For many years, the Arabian Sporthorse shows have showcased his offspring. I’ve seen many of them and most have really good height - well over 16 hands - and lovely presence.

Since we produced the UB40 x Arabian, Uphoria, we’d LOVE to see that cross again, but I have seen some extremely nice wb/arabian crosses competing in dressage by warmblood stallions, Cabaret, Granduell & Contucci. And I’ve seen lovely foals out of Arabian mares by Rosenthal, Donnerwelt, Ideal, Sontagskind and several others. Don’t know how they ended up as adults, but they looked promising as foals.

With the right Arabian mare, I’d love to see what Don Principe and Benedetto would produce!

[SamWerner]

Thanks for the compliments on my boy. He is being started under saddle within the next week, so I will keep everyone updated.

And-wanted to let you know and show you that there is another UB40/Arabian cross. A 2012 filly, she is up in New York, I haven’t mentioned her before to everyone, I was waiting for the owner to provide me a decent picture, since she has been a shaggy woolly monster! The very last picture in the album below is her, the picture is from a show last month. You can see (well in my opinion) my boy and this filly are very much alike in type. Uri looked very similar to her at that age. So, at least you have one more of the same cross to look at!
This filly is at Arabian Sport Horse Nationals at the moment, I cannot wait to see how she does! She has been scoring 8.2-8.6 in sport horse in hand at the few shows she has been too, and was regional champion last month as well. Uri’s scores range from 8.62-9.09, so not too far off

And…my friend who lives near me was so taken with my boy after she saw him at the Young Horse Show Finals that she bred her Arabian mare to UB40 as well! So I will post pics of the 2014 baby when it arrives.

The pictures of Uri are from January, so he has grown another inch and filled out even more, but these are the best quality for you to see what he really looks like and moves like! The album is public, so everyone should be able to view.

https://www.facebook.com/samwerner211/media_set?set=a.10100257084871985.2293371.33401537&type=3

[stripes]

Without seeing the mare, how she moves, and her pedigree and importantly your goal for the foal. its really impossible to offer an opinion of who to point out for you. As a photographer I get to see a lot of WB babies and a variety of Arabian/WB foals. If you just want to see many of this cross and then I can offer out several stallions to look into.

Dante’s Weltino
Devon Heir
Escudo II
Landkoenig
Waterford
Donarweiss GGF

[Halt_Near_X]

Thanks everyone. This has been very helpful.

Right now, I really do just want to see lots of the WB/Arab cross and solidify in my mind what it can produce when done well.

Figuring out the best stallion for the particular mare is the next step, but I’m really not there yet. And would not want to post the mare’s details without the owner’s permission, either.

[Perfect_Pony]

[QUOTE=SamWerner;7179848]

https://www.facebook.com/samwerner211/media_set?set=a.10100257084871985.2293371.33401537&type=3[/QUOTE]

Wow she is gorgeous! I know it’s only a sampling of two, but he does seem to cross well with Arabians. I wonder why that is?

It is interesting how the cross can go so right, or SO SO wrong. I have seen some really hideous Arab-WB crosses. But I have also seen some really super show stoppers that had everything going right for them.

[ChocoMare]

Just as a living example of a nice cross producing a very nice result: Stedinger (Sandro hit) crossed to an Arabian mare = Saint Sandro

[Petstorejunkie]

PRE: Excelso
Paul Belasik owns him. I’ve met 4 Arab crosses by him.

[SamWerner]

PerfectPony- I think it may be because he is quite similar in type to the mare I leased for the custom breeding. Sonesta has a great conformation pic of the mare, and if you put it next to a picture of UB40, you will see that the types are not so different. I believe that breeding type to type gets you pretty good results, and I was right. I think the crosses that turn out pretty bad are the mare owners who have petite little Arabian mares of non sport horse type that choose heavy warmblood stallions. Well, when you breed polar opposites, you can get a huge body, short legs…all sorts of weird combos! I got the perfect combination of the two as Uri’s dam is built very well, good bone, great mover, and a great overall conformation. And yes, his “half-sister” is gorgeous! The dam of the filly was also of lovely substance and type. I can’t wait to see how she matures

[Bravestrom]

I believe Donavan has been bred to many Arabians with success.

[Freebird]

Here’s an old COTH thread about WB/Arab crosses: http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?98582-Arab-Warmblood-crossing

The mare free jumping on the right, was owned by a good friend of mine, and I rode the mare many times. http://www.hanoverian.org/ahs_media/downloads/articles/MPT_article.pdf

She was bred to Gold Luck and produced a lovely filly by the name of Galadria.

AT the time, she was the only Arabian to be inducted into the Hanoverian STudbook, by the way of the MPT.

I think I read somewhere though, that Gold Luck has since passed? He was a lovely stallion.

[ancientoaks]

And in relation to the OP’s question. DeLaurentis, Rosenthal, Ironman, Furst Impression, Sinatra Song…all worked so very well in our personal experience. and of course, the ‘success’ of such quality offspring lies greatly in how their futures are handled. What kind, quality and type of training they receive. As a breeder you can only provide the best foundation, the rest is up to man…
Plus, you cannot always tell by just visual on the mare…Study your pedigree, the quality of the pedigree often supercedes and is not apparent in the mare you are looking at. As a breeder we have the luxury of trying once and then twice to see if the consistency is there. If you are breeding just for yourself, and looking at an un proven mare, then it’s a bit more difficult, so you have to trust what you are looking at rather than only trusting the pedigree…Sometimes you just have to go with your gut… With 7 warmblood cross foals since 2006, three different mares (two arabian, one Thoroughbred) all were approved GOV, and three were premiums, it’s a formula that has worked for us,