Which stallions have both a high dressage and a high jumping index? If you happen to know if they have well known offspring in both rings or even one ring, who are the offspring?
Stallions can score well in both jumping and dressage but they tend to attract either jumping mares or dressage mares, IMO. In recent years, breeders tend to specialize, IMO again.
Pablo, 129.11 jumping and 138.21 dressage at his 100 day stallion test. He has offspring at the GP level in jumping, dressage and driving!
Contendro: In his SPT, 149 in jumping, 131 in dressage. Based on his own performance, and that of his offspring, his breed value for jumping has been in the top 1% for German jumping sires (usually he places 2nd after Stakkato), and he has been in the top 5% or 10% (varies by year) as a sire of dressage horses.
His 3/4 brother Conteur (also by Contendro, also with Ramiro 3 times in the pedigree) is also a producer of dressage and jumping offspring.
And then the E-line:
Both Eiger I and Espri have had horses in the Olympics, in both dressage and Jumping. Espri (available now via frozen) had Elvis at the last Olympics, and Esprit de Valdemar at the 2 previous Olympics, plus several jumper stallions over the years at the World level. He has other dressage horses now at the grand Prix level I believe.
Escudo sons and daughters can also be found in both disciplines. E-line horses have strong constitutions and temperaments too, as well as dual athletic talent.
Matcho offspring are also versatile sires (eg Merlin, Maurice), and Viva Voltaire just had 2 sons at the Pan-Am games - highest dressage score for Guatamala, plus team silver, overall 4th place for Canada under Tom Dvorak.
That’s just off the top of my head …
Galeno Tyme’s Overall Index of 155.87 stands alone. His individual scores for Jumping (152.19) and Dressage (144.54) place him
among a handful of stallions world-wide ever to achieve such marks (for one discipline, much less both). He demonstrates a unique and
brilliant jumping ability, while also scoring 10s from dressage test riders at his Stallion Performance Test.
RashkaHighest score in U.S. testing history - 164.86
Dressage index of 175.34
Jumping index of 153.80
Perfect 10 on his canter from all judges
Wamberto Overall performance index of 158.78, Dressage index of 168.87, Jumping index of 145.15
Pablo came immediately to mind also. 129.11 jumping and 138.21 dressage.
To me, Pablo scoring in the high 120’s and 130’s is every bit as impressive as the later stallions scoring in the 150’s-170’s. I think something funky happens in the bell curve when used at the US stallion testings that makes the highest and lowest scoring stallions score extremely high and extremely low. Probably due to the low number of stallions presented at the US testings.
Fabriano
Stallion Performance Test 1990, Adelheidsdorf
Overall score 133.02 -> 1st of 36
Dressage score 128.55
Jumping score 132.37
Are you asking about SPT indices, or breeding value indices?
For example, Weltmeyer had great SPT scores for both, but is overwhelmingly a dressage sire, based on his offspring’s performance …
I took the OP’s post to mean breeding indexes.
Don’t know about index numbers, but Riverman has eventers, jumpers driving horses and dressage so is versatile.
Chico’s Boy has high index in both discipline.
Every KWPN stallion has both assessments posted on the KWPN website. I was surprised to see that Julio Mariner xx, I guess from his descendants, has a higher dressage score than jumping score.
I’d personally be more interested in the KWPN type numbers that come from the get than the stallion’s own numbers.
Contango has produced FEI level jumpers (Maverick and Nouvelle) and dressage horses (Ravel, Montango and Now I’m Here). He also has many get competing in the US in both rings .
Weltmeyer’s test scores and results:
Overall score 143.96 / 1st of 40
Dressage score 143.94 / 1st
Jumping score 141.44 / 3rd
Winner of the stallion licensing in Verden 1986
A breeding index is what a stallion produces, not how he scored in a testing.
Weltmeyer could jump but would any jumper breeder use Weltmeyer? I don’t think so.
From Hannoveraner Jahrbuch Hengste:
Stallions with
-Dressage Breed Value Index of > or = 110
AND
-Jumping Breed Value Index of > or =110
Conteur (Contender/Rasputin/Tin Rod xx), Dressage 112, Jumping 133
Grand Cru (Grand Garcon/Absatz/Valentino), Dressage 110, Jumping 120
Fabriano (Wendulan/Azur/Leutnant P.B.), Dressage 110, Jumping 117
Chico’s Boy (Carpaccio/Silbersee/Cor de la Bryere), Dressage 110, Jumping 134
very few others match the criteria (> or = 110 for both breed values)
For comparison:
Weltmeyer - Dressage 146, Jumping 69
Pablo - Dressage 93, Jumping 119
Espri - Dressage 76, Jumping 129
Escudo I - Dressage 72, Jumping 144
Contendro I - Dressage 101, Jumping 168
From Swedish BLUP:
Stallions with
-Dressage Breed Value Index of > or = 110
AND
-Jumping Breed Value Index of > or = 110
Come Back II, Dressage 145, Jumping 132
Briar, Dressage 139, Jumping 116
Prestige VDL, Dressage 127, Jumping 114
Argentinus, Dressage 126, Jumping 130
Quite Easy, Dressage 123, Jumping 126
Crelido, Dressage 111, Jumping 116
very few others match the criteria (> or = 110 for both breed values)
Off course I would look at breeding index numbers instead of test index numbers if I would want to know about a certain stallion. But I would also look at the SPT in addition and if we are talking baout german stallions checkout on what kind of bloodlines he was used.
E.g. Weltmeyer the jumping index of 69 surprises me. This can only be explained because he was used on mainly dressage mares. I know that Weltmeyer offspring can jump decently. He is for sure not a stallion a Would expect to ruin jumping as it comes from his breeding index. Whereas if I hear Lauries i would put immediatly the jumps out of the way. Most of them litereally break their legs over umos.
I know e.g. a Wolkensteinson competing very well over 1,40 classes. And also some other sons of him showed their talent by scoring very well in their tests like Wonderful e.g.
Also Donnerhall lines they ofter jump rather nicely.
All depends on what is meant to be archieved: a dressage horse that one can use to jump in the field or do a small jumping test with ? A versatile horse good enough to go through the levels of 3day enventing ? A horse that can be equally shown in all disciplines as an amateur mount ?
Breeding index is not the only thing. If one has already the stallion book in front of oneself - checkout for the stallions with low jumping levels if the have masses in the low levels or only a few horses but some out of these competing in the high levels of the other diszipline.
Second Argentinus, Fabriano, Chico’s Boy. Raphael had some good dressage progeny despite his being used predominantly as a jumper sire.
Werther!
Florestan has made both nice jumpers and dressage horses. From Sweden I’d like to add Okeanos.
To add a young one I expect a lot from in both matters I’ve recently seen Tamango for the first time who is all jumper-bred and will compete jumping this year yet was presented with Henrike Sommer in dressage tack and looks like he could offer what many dressage sires of today are missing.
This is him:
Thanks all. Many of these horses are ones that came to mind. It is great to see their numbers and names of successful progeny. This topic came up at a jumper barn where I have some of my dressage horses turned grand prix jumper prospects. Figured this would be the place to continue the conversation and expand my knowledge further.
What about some US bred jumpers? These two had outstanding movement and jumping scores from the recent 70 day test.
OA Gaits Jumping
1 Validation S 135.85 128.08 (1) 140.66 (1)
2 Chicardo * 128.58 125.82 (2) 128.12 (2)
Validation is by Vallado (Voltaire) x Rexana v Lansing (stamm 2067)
Vallado is currently competing in the Derbies, after competing in the small tour GP’s
Chicardo is by Clinton x Mycarda v Corofino (stamm 1298)
Clinton is an internationally known GP horse
Maybe Bayhawk could tell us about the stamms?
Dr. Christmann was at the 70 day finals and was very excited about both of these stallions. He and the AHS judges approved them both for AHS and HV, in addition to their own registries.
Pablo. I have a Pablito mare who is a heck of a jumper and dressage is second nature. I credit those to grandad, plus she looks like him!
