There is always a lot of discussion on what characteristics/traits certain sire lines produce but what about the different mare lines? Obviously mares don’t produce as many offspring as stallions (so individually they may have less of a genetic impact on a breed) but are there noticeable defining traits within the major mare lines? Would an expert be able to look at a horse and say “that one looks like it is from stamm 104a” or “that one jumps like something from 242”?
[QUOTE=hntrjmprpro45;7618618]
There is always a lot of discussion on what characteristics/traits certain sire lines produce but what about the different mare lines? Obviously mares don’t produce as many offspring as stallions (so individually they may have less of a genetic impact on a breed) but are there noticeable defining traits within the major mare lines? Would an expert be able to look at a horse and say “that one looks like it is from stamm 104a” or “that one jumps like something from 242”?[/QUOTE]
The answer to your question is no…you can’t look at a random mare somewhere and tell she is from 104a or not. You could if you were standing on the field with 20 mares from 104a…you can surely see the relations.
The characteristics become apparent after dealing with many horses from the same stamm.
I own and know many horses from stamm 242. One characteristic about them is that they don’t WOW you in the jump chute. They jump very efficiently and just keep climbing as you raise the fences. They also all have super characters and work ethic. These traits are firmly cemented in this stamm.
I will probably be laughed at for talking about cows.
Started with a small herd of original cows and 20 years later had a herd of 150 and I could still name the original cow. There were all bred to the same breed of bull, even though they originally were many different breeds. So 5 generations later and some of the same traits were fairly consistent. They were all bigger and most of the time the color was consolidated but other traits and a resemblance came through.
Also the same with a bull we used for some years, his influence was also easiy recognizable generations later, because I saw 100’s of them and even when the mothers made them different, there was a similarity.
If we only used a bull for a season, you didn’t tend to recognize the influence in later generations as much.
Point is, you tend to look for what you know and if you know the stallion’s offspring really well, you see those traits easily. Same with a mare.
Genetically, it is practically a 50/50 split with the more dominate traits being expressed. The carry forward traits I saw in the cows 5 gens later would be more dominate traits that each cow passed on.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;7618858]
The answer to your question is no…you can’t look at a random mare somewhere and tell she is from 104a or not. You could if you were standing on the field with 20 mares from 104a…you can surely see the relations.
The characteristics become apparent after dealing with many horses from the same stamm.
I own and know many horses from stamm 242. One characteristic about them is that they don’t WOW you in the jump chute. They jump very efficiently and just keep climbing as you raise the fences. They also all have super characters and work ethic. These traits are firmly cemented in this stamm.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Bayhawk, this was the type of thing I was looking for. I feel like this type of information can probably only be gained from talking with experienced breeders (not necessarily the type of info you could find in a book). So my follow up question would be, does the AHHA or the verband in Holstein have any kind of educational seminars/events where breeders gather and share this kind of knowledge? I would especially be interested in hearing the opinions of the inspectors since they get to evaluate many horses every year from various stamms and get to see what the mares produce year after year.
[QUOTE=hntrjmprpro45;7619192]
Thanks Bayhawk, this was the type of thing I was looking for. I feel like this type of information can probably only be gained from talking with experienced breeders (not necessarily the type of info you could find in a book). So my follow up question would be, does the AHHA or the verband in Holstein have any kind of educational seminars/events where breeders gather and share this kind of knowledge? I would especially be interested in hearing the opinions of the inspectors since they get to evaluate many horses every year from various stamms and get to see what the mares produce year after year.[/QUOTE]
Welcome ! If you really want the in depth discussions…you need to come to Holstein , visit the farms and have beers with the breeders every night.
You can also go to the inspections here and ask the judges questions but the info will be on a much smaller scale.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;7619071]
I will probably be laughed at for talking about cows.
Started with a small herd of original cows and 20 years later had a herd of 150 and I could still name the original cow. There were all bred to the same breed of bull, even though they originally were many different breeds. So 5 generations later and some of the same traits were fairly consistent. They were all bigger and most of the time the color was consolidated but other traits and a resemblance came through.
Also the same with a bull we used for some years, his influence was also easiy recognizable generations later, because I saw 100’s of them and even when the mothers made them different, there was a similarity.
If we only used a bull for a season, you didn’t tend to recognize the influence in later generations as much.
Point is, you tend to look for what you know and if you know the stallion’s offspring really well, you see those traits easily. Same with a mare.
Genetically, it is practically a 50/50 split with the more dominate traits being expressed. The carry forward traits I saw in the cows 5 gens later would be more dominate traits that each cow passed on.[/QUOTE]
Only a fool would laugh at you. Breeding cows is no different than mares. A female family is a female family.
Reece, you have described my Ahorn mare to a tee! Through the jump chute her jumping style is “meh” and under saddle she has an incredibly unorthodox jumping style, very tight in front but almost jumps over her forearm. That being said, she always kept the rails up while in competition and as you said, you could continue to raise the bar and although the style never changed, the poles never came down.
Excellent work ethic as well, although her rideability could be stronger, however I firmly believe that it is due to the linebreeding on Farn in her pedigree.
[QUOTE=RyuEquestrian;7619245]
Reece, you have described my Ahorn mare to a tee! Through the jump chute her jumping style is “meh” and under saddle she has an incredibly unorthodox jumping style, very tight in front but almost jumps over her forearm. That being said, she always kept the rails up while in competition and as you said, you could continue to raise the bar and although the style never changed, the poles never came down.
Excellent work ethic as well, although her rideability could be stronger, however I firmly believe that it is due to the linebreeding on Farn in her pedigree.[/QUOTE]
Cool Monica ! You can’t get it all sometimes. LOL Which Ahorn is your mare by ?
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;7619206]
Welcome ! If you really want the in depth discussions…you need to come to Holstein , visit the farms and have beers with the breeders every night.
You can also go to the inspections here and ask the judges questions but the info will be on a much smaller scale.[/QUOTE]
Holstein is definitely on my to do list. I’ve been fortunate enough to go to Europe a couple times for the international young breeders championships where I was able to visit with many of the breeders there, but haven’t made it to any of the farms in Holstein yet!
[QUOTE=hntrjmprpro45;7619434]
Holstein is definitely on my to do list. I’ve been fortunate enough to go to Europe a couple times for the international young breeders championships where I was able to visit with many of the breeders there, but haven’t made it to any of the farms in Holstein yet![/QUOTE]
It’s worth every penny and every minute of your time. Visit the farms and look at generations of horses , then speak with the breeders and you will learn a ton. They hide nothing…
My first visit was many years ago. I was there about one full day before I realized I didn’t know nearly what I thought I did.
There’s none of this BS sugarcoating that goes on around here. They need to see things for what they are in order to get better.
She is by Ahorn (Nimmerdor) not Ahorn Z (Alme Z).
