Standardbreds and Dressage question

[Centuree]

I love the Standardbred breed. In my opinion, they are sound, rideable, have good work ethic and are quite athletic. I had a Standardbred Arab cross as a teenager who was a fantastic dressage horse who trained up to fourth level and could have gone further if I hadn’t lost him. Anyways, I have always wanted another, but crosses are very hard to come by. Therefore my thoughts entail buying a Standardbred mare and doing dressage.

Here is my question: most people shy away from Standardbreds due to their canter issues. However, is this because they were race-trained not to canter? Or are they conformationally challenged when it comes to canter? I am asking as I am contemplating buying a young unraced Standardbred directly from the yearling sale. Would appreciate any thoughts for those who know the breed.

[BigMama1]

If the horse is a trotter and not a pacer, I don’t see any reason why they can’t learn to canter correctly. It takes time and patience but you’re right about them being of good mind with a good work ethic, so why not? Most of them have a good engine and understand the concept of forward, which is a great start

My friend is currently re-training her brother’s very successful retired trotter. At Intro levels she is scoring well, and at Training she’s well on the right track with scores in the low 60s. The canter is correct but quite unbalanced and scrambly at the moment, but Improving every week. Ditto the transitions into canter.

[HappyTalk]

This one canters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7ju8RBLC3g

I would choose a trotter. When I was in Iceland I rode horses that walked, trotted , tolted and cantered. Five gaited Saddlebreds have three gaits plus slow gait and rack.

If they canter canter in the pasture, I don’t see why one could not canter under saddle.

[myhorsefaith]

Some, whether trotters or pacers, canter more naturally. Pick one of those Just like evaluating any horse for purpose, select the one with the best gaits.

I love the breed and I happen to have a pacer with a not-so-awesome canter I bought from a rescue in Canada sight unseen (story for another day, LOL). He’s very pacy naturally and his canter is very flat and 4 beat and scrambly. It takes (has taken/will continue to take) LOADS of work to get a clear canter, and even then, it is just your average canter on a good day. I love him dearly, and he is awesome in so many ways and is a great generalist, but he’ll never be a horse I would show in dressage on beyond our local schooling shows. I didn’t get him to be my next dressage horse per se, I got him as a project to see much we could do/how far we could get. Dressage has really improved his way of going- even when he’s on his own in pasture. The things he has achieved may not look like much when compared to other horses, but knowing how much he has overcome and how much he has changed, well, he’s a superstar in my eyes. :o

Here he is about a year ago schooling the canter in a clinic: https://youtu.be/LB1-vIXXn04

It has been a most excellent journey with him, one I am thankful for every day. If I were looking at it with the end goal of competing in real dressage shows, it would look rather dismal. It all depends on what your goals are - then get the best horse for the job, in the breed of choice, or out. If I were to do it again, I’d be more particular about picking one with better/more natural gaits, they are out there.

[Pocket_Pony]

myhorsefaith, your horse is very pretty!

[myhorsefaith]

@Pocket Pony

myhorsefaith, your horse is very pretty!

Thank you! He means the world to me.

[SendenHorse]

lovely horse! Really good quality, I think he could do well in dressage, overall. He moves well over the back.

[Mondo]

I had a mare that was 1/2 Standardbred and 1/2 DWB. I remember my trainer saying to me during a lesson: She has such a funky canter, are you sure she’s all Dutch? I said, no, she’s half Standardbred. She said, Ah, that explains it!

Just something to keep in mind. But to your original question, I don’t see why they couldn’t be good a dressage, and for all the reasons you mention in your OP. Just make sure you see her canter before you buy her.

[Caprilli]

I have re-trained quite a few Trotters (that is what we call them in my native Germany). My Parents and Grandparents used to race them, whilst I trained as a Bereiter FN (Professional Trainer). They can definitely be trained to do lower level Dressage. Like others suggested - you need to find one that has a clear 3/4 rhythm in canter AND you need to watch out for a good walk. The canter can be somewhat manipulated through the right training but a walk is the hardest pace to work on.

You will be hard pushed tough to get them past the level in Dressage where flying changes begin. Once you have covered the initial breaking for riding stage you need to work on lots and lots and lots of transitions as well as lots and lots of shoulder fore and shoulder in so you get them to sit on their inside hindleg. They need a lot of strengths there.

[Scribbler]

If you are getting an unbroken colt the same rules apply as to any breed for watching how they move at liberty and looking at the final conformation of parents and adult siblings.

Standarbreds have no real standard for looks, they are bred entirely for performance. So there is variation in build between different lines.

You want one with a shorter back, a good shoulder and good back end.

Makes sense to get a trotting line.

The other thing is, the European warmblood lines have evolved in part from harness breeds. That’s where they get the big trot. People in North America are also experimenting with Hackneys and Dutch Harness Horses so the idea of trying a standard bred is not so far fetched.

Interesting to find out if the level headedness of stbds is due to extensive track exposure or to natural temper.

I agree that good stbd are very athletic horses and the trot would be gorgeous for dressage.

[Foxtail]

Almost all pacers will trot, they’re trained to pace on the track.

I’m actually going to differ from everyone and say get a pacer. One, they’re far more common. Two, it can actually be easier to untrain the unwillingness to canter. They associate pacing with racing and therefore not cantering, so being asked to work at a trot can circumvent the “on the track can’t canter” thought process.

I agree with what everyone else said about conformation.

With a pacer, you have to make sure first and foremost to keep them balanced. If they get rushed and on their forehand they’ll start pacing again. But oddly enough the top pacing lines also seem to correlate with an ability to collect.

Most standies also have a natural predisposition towards jumping.

[KittyinAus]

A lot of Australian trainers will canter a horse in harness for aerobic work. My first two Standardbreds had a canter, the third has a tranter. He also has a back issue. The advice in Australia is that pacers are easier. A lot of people find the trot of a trotter a bit much. Remember that these horses have been trained and fittened for harness and will be muscled differently to a correctly worked riding horse. One of the results is a disappearing bum. If the hindquarters are on the smaller side, consider the bone structure. Make sure that you get the temperament and attitude that you want. Most Standardbreds are equine angels but not all. Some of the modern ones can be quite hot. That could be a plus or a negative depending on what you want. Like any other breed of horse, some have also been abused and have behaviour issues linked to that.
Good luck with horse shopping.

[NSC_Los_Angeles]

When I was a teenager in KY we seemed to have a surplus of these wonderful horses who could be had for nothing and turned into marvelous field hunters and all around solid riding horses, I love them! Each one I saw or rode was a pacer, the trotters seemed quite rare (?). They will both trot and canter, but I never did see one with a clean canter transition, they seemed to sort of shuffle into it and take a good two or three strides to figure it out.

I stopped by a nice farm outside LA last year to look at some stanardbreds the owners wanted to transition to sport horses so they could retire their racers to nice homes. These horses were spectacular athletes, like nothing I saw as a kid. Enormous, fire breathing, stunning animals! I went for a ride in a silky and it was frankly terrifying and I never want to do that again. In the end I decided the task was a bit too much of a departure from what I want to do with my precious little riding time, but what a great bunch of horses.

Myhorsefaith - I love Ben, he’s very dynamic and fun to watch, kudos to you for getting him to this point!

[LilyandBaron]

I own a pacer, and he has wtc in the pasture, now getting trot confirmed undersaddle. He naturally offers to canter more than trot, but everything I researched suggested pacers are more easy to train to canter. Love, love the breed! I got my boy from New Vocations, and the trainer in Ohio was very knowledgeable and can find what you want!

[Flyingfish]

Look for one that doesn’t naturally pace at the walk. there is a pacing gene which many carry, and if you google ‘pacing gene in standardbreds’, you should get some links to studies or reports looking at how it is linked with the ability to not get such a good quality canter under saddle. My mother breeds them, and we break many to saddle as well as harness, and the mares who naturally walk tend to throw foals who walk and are comfortable rides, whereas those who naturally pace, even at the walk, tend to pass it on to their offspring and they are more difficult to balance under saddle.

They are lovely horses though, good work ethic, generally quite people-orientated, and the smartest horse I’ve had was a standardbred mare: she responded veery well to basic dressage work, but unfortunately is out spelling for 6-12 months after a nasty paddock injury. She stands watching us riding and comes to the gate waiting to be taken out too (or maybe just to be fed treats and fussed over…)

[Centuree]

Thank you everyone, this has been informative and encouraging. Unfortunately, in my neck of the woods (British Columbia), only pacers and those bred for pacing are available. However, I could travel as far as California should the right prospect await. I also am interested in doing some jumping, so the fact that most jump quite naturally is also good to hear. I will update if/when I find the right mare or filly.

Another inspiring video of a dressage/jumper standardbred https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBWYaNs2lJ4

[Centuree]

@LilyandBaron

I own a pacer, and he has wtc in the pasture, now getting trot confirmed undersaddle. He naturally offers to canter more than trot, but everything I researched suggested pacers are more easy to train to canter. Love, love the breed! I got my boy from New Vocations, and the trainer in Ohio was very knowledgeable and can find what you want!

Would love to see a picture? Or a video is even better :winkgrin:

[Centuree]

Myhorsefaith - you have a gorgeous horse. Looks like you have come a long way. He looks very athletic, do you jump also?

[Centuree]

Thanks so much Myhorsefaith for sharing your experience (blog) as well as all those other great Standardbreds. To be totally honest, I didn’t realize what an enormous challenge the canter is for a Standardbred. My Arab x Standardbred cantered very easily, and perhaps I was a bit naive in that regards. Your stories are very enlightening - and I still do want a Standardbred, just good to note it’s going to take years to get a decent canter. LilyandBaron, your horse is lovely as well! Let us know how the clinic goes and yes, video would be great!

[myhorsefaith]

You are quite welcome. That boy is my heart, and I love talking about him :o

I think if you go into it with the right mindset (which it sounds like you have), AND pick one with more naturally pure gaits, you will be fine. You can put a lot of blood, sweat, tears, and years into something that might never get near or above mediocre- don’t set yourself up for that. Do your homework and choose wisely - don’t rush into anything or pick any old horse thinking you can drastically change the way it moves- chances are you can likely make it go better…but you’ll have nature working against you. Pick one with a good temperament (pretty easy to do with STBs, though they arent all that way), and nice gaits- have fun and enjoy the journey!