Standing like a goat on a rock?

[Helicon]

Anyone know what it means when horse starts standing with the forelegs pulled back? I assumed it was a sign of heel pain.

I was chatting with a vet and he said no, that pointing is a sign of heel pain. I did a little google research and it made my wonder if I had it backwards, and that standing like a goat on a rock can CAUSE heel pain.

So I still think that stance is an early warning sign of something, but i am not sure what. Like any compensation, it could incite new problems.

Any experience/thoughts?

[BoyleHeightsKid]

I would look at hoof balance. My gelding used to stand this way… getting his toes back and his heels where they need to be (he gets LTLH’s fast if not kept after) he now stands nice and square

[bugsynskeeter]

Elephant on a ball stance is a classic sign of botulism.

[Claudius]

Yes. I bought an OTTB that was standing like that when I went to see him the first time. I bought him, won 10k in a month, sold him as an eventer to Phillip Dutton’s customer…went to see him a year later. found him in his stall standing the same way!!! He was always sound. so, no answers here~~!!!

[SAcres]

Standing like that usually indicates long toes/underrun heels, IME.

[Helicon]

Thanks for the responses. That’s interesting about the botulism, although I was thinking more of the chronic stance rather than acute.

I agree with the long toe/low heel connection and I guess that’s why I assumed it was a symptom of navicular. Now I am wondering if horses with long toe low heels develop navicular issues because standing in that position puts so much stress on the ligaments and navicular bone.

I have one that stands like that and we keep her toes very short and heels are healthy and open. I am wondering if there is another reason she stands like that. I had some thermographic pictures taken of her and she had inflammation in her feet, shoulders, legs and withers. I just don’t know why. I thought her feet were causing her to stand that way, but now I am wondering she is stressing her feet and forehand by standing that way due to an undiagnosed issue.

She has been seen by several vets but they focus on treating the symptoms rather than assessing the whole horse system.

[ToTheNines]

My horse points his right front foot, and I am pretty it is heel pain as opposed to something else. My farrier and I (well actually my “trimmer” because he is barefoot) manage it, but I am constantly monitoring his toe pointing when I look out in the pasture at him!

In his case, you can actually see the “strawberry” at the v of the inside bar of his heel when he is trimmed. Nothing we do can make them go away, and shoes give him corns. He has odd front leg conformation.

[LookmaNohands]

[QUOTE=SAcres;7496995]
Standing like that usually indicates long toes/underrun heels, IME.[/QUOTE]

Generally, this^^

[arlosmine]

Horses with navicular or general heel pain will stand with the foot way out in front of the body (one leg at a time): Pointing. Not with the front legs pulled behind the vertical.

[Ghazzu]

Goat on a rock.

[Helicon]

What if the hoof is balanced and break over is properly set back and horse continues to stand like a goat on a rock. What else could cause this posture?

Great article Ghazzu. I had read it and found it fascinating. It acknowledges that there are other triggers for this posture, but alas it does not describe them.

[JeanM]

My mare has had her feet excellently tended to by a phenomenal farrier… so when she presents with that “goat on a rock” look, I first think “ulcers” and treat accordingly. She’s standing that way, maybe she’s protecting a sore stomach.

[beowulf]

Horses who are very body sore will stand in a similar posture too.

I’ll use a picture of my guy to illustrate: click here

This was taken 1 week after the pictured horse’s last race. He presented with severe body soreness, as well as definite hoof imbalance: long toes, underslung heels, and bullnose profile in hind hooves that indicated a negative palmar angle.

His body/back soreness resolved - correcting the botched hoof job has been ongoing since I purchased him in September.

IME, horses who stand in that profile are in pain - typically in their lower back or their hooves/lower legs. Poor hoof angles and unbalanced feet are absolute hell on a horse’s body. It would be like you working all day in a six inch heel/stiletto on one foot and flip flops on the other.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=JeanM;7497494]
My mare has had her feet excellently tended to by a phenomenal farrier… so when she presents with that “goat on a rock” look, I first think “ulcers” and treat accordingly. She’s standing that way, maybe she’s protecting a sore stomach.[/QUOTE]

We call that “the end of the trail”, as that painting of the old dejected native indian on his skinny and tired horse standing with all four legs under himself:

http://www.rockwellmuseum.org/The-End-of-the-Trail.html

It can abdominal pain like ulcers, liver trouble, or back pain, if it is not sore feet.

I know a 17 year old mare that stood like that, then colicked and the vet diagnosed her with liver impairment and she passed on in a few days.
Her eyes were very yellow, jaundiced.

That was an interesting article, counterintuitive that long toes would permit a horse to stand like that, but makes sense if his propiocentric sense was tricking it.

[beowulf]

Additionally, I’ve seen horses with severe hock arthritis/pain/fusion stand camped under as well.

[Trinket]

I’ve seen one horse who was laminitic stand like that, not sure why! (as it seems usually they stand with front feet forward) But since she had it in all four hooves maybe standing like a goat relieved some pain?

[TheHorseComesFirst]

I just wanted to add that : Whne my horse used to get vaccinated he would get extremely neck sore and would stand like this when trying to stretch his neck down to eat grass.

could it be a sore/arthritic neck?

[Hiddenspot]

My horse did this until we got his feet fixed up. Prior owner was doing the shoes and learning as they went. Took a while to clean it up.

[JeanM]

Yes, hoof angle has indeed been another factor in my mare’s “goatish” stance – farrier added degree pads on all fours and the mare was immediately much more comfortable, standing with her cannons much more vertical.
Edited to add, before anyone flinches at putting degree pads on – my farrier puts a slight belly in his shoes, which means the horse has the ability to choose the most comfortable angle (which would be its proper bony alignment).

[I’ve never understood why this type of shoe is so controversial… why wouldn’t you want a breakover in shoes, when horses have a breakover when barefoot?]

[Helicon]

Thank you for all the great insights. I hope this thread will become a good reference for other horse owners with goat-on-rock. My mare is body sore but I am not sure where from where it’s originating.

Beowolf - thanks for the pic, yes that’s the look. I think its fairly common but often ignored.

TheHorseComesFirst, thank you for chiming in. I am going to pursue the sore neck angle.