Standing up in the stirrups to test saddle fit

[Scribbler]

This is a spin-off from a recent post that detoured into saddle fit for the rider. Someone said that a test of saddle fit was if you could stand straight up in the stirrups and balance there. This was a new idea to me but seemed plausible. So I have a couple of questions.

Is this true?
How straight is straight?
Does it apply to both jump and dressage saddles?

I tried this in my dressage saddle which IMHO fits me good enough. I can certainly two point in it at halt walk and trot. But even at halt I can’t stand straight up and maintain dressage posture. I can post in dressage posture, shoulders back. But if I stand in the stirrups at halt my hips are very slightly closed. It might be sitting straight up for a hunt seat rider but not for a dressage rider.

Should I be able to stand straight up without holding onto the cantle with one hand behind me?

I am open to being told I don’t have the ab strength or that my dressage saddle isn’t an optimal fit. Neither saddle nor abs are likely to change anytime soon.

However I am starting to casually look for a new jump saddle (horse outgrew previous) and was wondering if this is indeed a relevant test.

I think I know how to decide if a saddle fits without this, but just interested if it’s a good tip I just never heard about before.

I recall standing straight up in the stirrups in Western saddles as a kid if you were trying to pick apples off a tree or somethung.

[walktrot]

I went to a Julie Goodnight session at Equine Affaire last year on Riding Until You are 90. I’ll be 70 in a few weeks and I was kind of young compared to a lot of people, and the session was packed. She focused on riding standing up including demonstrating it herself. She is almost 60 so she knows what she is talking about. It helps with balance, core strength and flexibilty. I’ve been doing it since at a walk in a dressage saddle and it has helped, including with my confidence.

The trick is that standing up straight doesn’t mean bolt upright in the stirrups. You maintain the proper line from your ear down to your ankle. Your lower legs will shift backward a bit, and your upper body shifts a little bit forward to keep that line. We have mirrors so I can check. What I had to concentrate on was not doing 2-point and not leaning on the pommel or the horse. I’m also finding that it helps stretch my right knee and hip, which doesn’t want to post anymore. I should be doing it more often. If you keep at it and develop endurance, you put your hands behind your back. Then you move to the trot and then canter. I’m a W/T rider so I’m happy to work at the walk and won’t move on to T/C. I’m not sure it contributes too much to assessing saddle fit for the rider because of the shift in body position which is independent of the saddle while your feet are in the stirrups.

The horse is turning 24 this week, and so we will be 94 this month. 3 more years to 100!

[Guilherme]

As an exercise for rider skill I think it’s likely a good idea. As an indicator of saddle fit quality I’m not sure why that would be necessarily so. There are SO many different varieties of saddle type postulating this as a rule seems questionable.

G.

[Palm_Beach]

^^This. And yes, core strength and balance are involved.

[beowulf]

I don’t think it’s true - and I’ll use myself as an example.

I used to be able to stand up straight perfectly in my Ainsley, which fits me like a glove and has since HS (so we’re talking a ~15 year record here of fitting me extremely well)… then I took ~3 years off of riding because my horse unexpectedly died, and when I got back into riding I remember that it was impossible for me to stand up straight in that saddle while the horse was moving. It took me a long while to get that skill back.

Reason being was I lost all of my core fitness, and also, the horse was a big mover. My proportions didn’t change to make me not fit in the saddle, but my muscling made it so that it was very hard for me to stand up straight while riding…

It’s a good litmus test for rider fitness, but I don’t think it’s a good test for saddle fit. It might be an okay test for saddle “stability” (IE, I have an easier time standing up in my Kieffer Wein than I do in my Stubben Zaria) but that has much more to do with the shape of the saddle flaps and the length of stirrups than it has to do with the saddle fitting me.

[Scribbler]

OK, good to know! I can certainly stand up in the stirrups like walktrot describes from her clinic, and I can do a forward seat two point at trot that’s not really jump position or crest release, just holding the “up” position of a posting trot. But I didn’t really think of that as “standing up straight in the stirrups” because the forward seat out of the tack involves the thigh as much as the stirrups.

I will keep doing this for fitness and not worry about saddle fit.

[PNWjumper]

I love riding while standing in the stirrups as a muscle building exercise. I do not do it nearly often enough!!

I can stand in all of my saddles. Not all of my saddles fit me. So I would take that to mean that if you have moderate/good core strength it’s not a great test of whether the saddle fits or not. However, it’s possible that if you didn’t have core strength it might be a potential indicator of a saddle that put you in a funky position and made the exercise more difficult? Like Guilherme implied - too many other factors to make it a test with a yes/no answer.

[tbchick84]

I don’t think it tests fit. It’s more a test of how it balances the rider. I think standing up just quickly answers the question of whether that particular saddle and stirrup bar placement, keeps you properly centered over your feet. You either fall forward, fall backward and stay standing right over your feet. If it’s either of those first 2 things, it’s not the proper balance for your conformation. This is all assuming that you have the stirrups at the proper length for you legs and your knee sits in the proper place in the knee roll.

[Scribbler]

@tbchick84

I don’t think it tests fit. It’s more a test of how it balances the rider. I think standing up just quickly answers the question of whether that particular saddle and stirrup bar placement, keeps you properly centered over your feet. You either fall forward, fall backward and stay standing right over your feet. If it’s either of those first 2 things, it’s not the proper balance for your conformation. This is all assuming that you have the stirrups at the proper length for you legs and your knee sits in the proper place in the knee roll.

So I m wondering about the definition of “stand up” really. I can get up easily enough into a two point that’s essentially the up position of a posting trot and can hold that. Not falling forward. But hip angle is slightly closed. Saddle feels balanced for me.

I’m not standing straight up though.

[tbchick84]

@Scribbler

So I m wondering about the definition of “stand up” really. I can get up easily enough into a two point that’s essentially the up position of a posting trot and can hold that. Not falling forward. But hip angle is slightly closed. Saddle feels balanced for me.

I’m not standing straight up though.

I would think, in the context of testing how the saddle balances you, standing up would mean any position along the arc of posting. If you can freeze in place anywhere between sitting and full post, the saddle works for you. I don’t know about others, but standing at the top of the arc with my legs straight puts my hips over the pommel. I’m not perpendicular to the ground, but I am balanced over my feet.

I

[Scribbler]

@tbchick84

I would think, in the context of testing how the saddle balances you, standing up would mean any position along the arc of posting. If you can freeze in place anywhere between sitting and full post, the saddle works for you. I don’t know about others, but standing at the top of the arc with my legs straight puts my hips over the pommel. I’m not perpendicular to the ground, but I am balanced over my feet.

I

Ok that totally makes sense!

[Magicboy]

My trainer uses this as a way to develop proper leg positions and rider balance.

[Scribbler]

@Magicboy

My trainer uses this as a way to develop proper leg positions and rider balance.

Is this different from riding in two point or half seat? I’ve done a lot of that and it’s been invaluable. But I’ve always seen two point/half seat as different from standing up braced in the stirrups which isn’t helpful.

[piedmontfields]

@PNWjumper

I can stand in all of my saddles. Not all of my saddles fit me.

THIS. It’s a fine test of balance and strength but has little to do with saddle fit. Scribbler, it is a more open, upright position than a good two point—so just a bit different in feel. I think of it as a rider training position, not a riding position if that makes sense. Another good exercise (while on the lunge or a steady horse) is to change between an upright position to two point while trotting or cantering (and if you can, hands on hips or out to the side).

[PNWjumper]

@Scribbler

Is this different from riding in two point or half seat? I’ve done a lot of that and it’s been invaluable. But I’ve always seen two point/half seat as different from standing up braced in the stirrups which isn’t helpful.

Oh man, give it a try! It is one of the most challenging and strength/balance-building exercises you can possibly do. Totally agree with piedmontfields that it’s not a “useful” or “productive” position for anything but rider training/strengthening.

Coming from someone who rides daily without stirrups and does a fair amount of 2-point, standing straight up is so much harder that I almost never do it on my own. My old trainer used to make us trot and canter a few laps in each direction standing up and it was pure torture. Fantastic for lower leg strength, core strength, and overall balance.

To do it correctly you have to literally stand straight up in the stirrups (not just a slightly taller 2-pt), and you have to shift your pelvis forward to adjust your balance to support the position. It’s totally okay to hold mane (you may have to, especially in the beginning, just to stay up). Start at the walk and once you’ve mastered that, go to the trot and canter.

I’ll take 2-pt without stirrups over standing up any day of the week!

[Scribbler]

@PNWjumper

Oh man, give it a try! It is one of the most challenging and strength/balance-building exercises you can possibly do. Totally agree with piedmontfields that it’s not a “useful” or “productive” position for anything but rider training/strengthening.

Coming from someone who rides daily without stirrups and does a fair amount of 2-point, standing straight up is so much harder that I almost never do it on my own. My old trainer used to make us trot and canter a few laps in each direction standing up and it was pure torture. Fantastic for lower leg strength, core strength, and overall balance.

To do it correctly you have to literally stand straight up in the stirrups (not just a slightly taller 2-pt), and you have to shift your pelvis forward to adjust your balance to support the position. It’s totally okay to hold mane (you may have to, especially in the beginning, just to stay up). Start at the walk and once you’ve mastered that, go to the trot and canter.

I’ll take 2-pt without stirrups over standing up any day of the week!

Ok, interesting! When I try to stand up straight my pelvis does come forward and I can maintain the position with a bit of mane grabbing, and yes it is a real core workout. That’s at a halt or walk.

I’ll work this in as a fitness thing on our trail ride circuits.