Any of you out there ever done much training with gaited horses? I have a Paso/Walker that I started and have some questions. She is doing great so far. Let me know if you have any experience with this.
I have a standardbred mare that I have done a lot of gait training with, she is older though, so Iām not sure how much help I can offer. Have you worked with gaited horses before?
I have a gaited horse. I did all of his training. I didnāt do anything different with him than any horse Iāve trained, mostly because I didnāt know he was gaited. He generally only gaits while being ridden. 
Iām happy to try and help if I can.
[QUOTE=GrandLiena;8385042]
I have a standardbred mare that I have done a lot of gait training with, she is older though, so Iām not sure how much help I can offer. Have you worked with gaited horses before?[/QUOTE]
I have not worked with gaited horses before, other than riding my wifeās TWH. Her horse paces a lot. The horse I am working with gaits, or āracksā I guess I should say. So she walks, racks, and lopes. She does those naturally, as I did nothing different when starting her than I do with the non-gaited horses I have worked with. However, she hates to back up. She is moving laterally much better as we progress. So I am interested to know if backing is something that these horses are not built to do well? Even the built-down-hill TBās Iāve trained learn to back up well. So is it something specific to my horse, or typical of Pasoās and Walkers in general?
Mine doesnāt have trouble backing and itās not something I have read is a problem with gaited horses. I would have him checked by a vet to see if there is something physical going on.
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I have many gaited horses that I have trained. Some have stifle issues that make it hard for them to back or go in tight circles. Start from the ground with a halter.
Definitely get a vet check.
The not-backing problem could be a health/conformation issue. Or it could be a training issue. Was the horse ever trained to back up by any previous owner/trainer?
Interesting that you say the TWH paces. A TWH should not pace but should do a running walk. Sounds like either a conformation or shoeing issue to me, or a training issue. Some TWHs rack but they are āsupposedā to do a running walk. Is your wifeās trainer a gaited person? That TWH should not be pacing! How is s/he shod?
I have never heard of a Paso/Walker! Interesting cross, since the Paso gaits are so very different from a running walk (other than being lateral gaits they are nothing like a running walk)! I am really surprised to hear that yours racks. Neither a Paso Fino nor a Peruvian Paso normally racks.
I have very little experience working with gaited horses but what experience I do have taught me that even some of the naturally gaited ones (the ones who gait in the pasture as well as under saddle) need good training to gait WELL under saddle. Some need more help from their trainer/rider than others.
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Definitely get a vet check.
The not-backing problem could be a health/conformation issue. Or it could be a training issue. Was the horse ever trained to back up by any previous owner/trainer?
Interesting that you say the TWH paces. A TWH should not pace but should do a running walk. Sounds like either a conformation or shoeing issue to me, or a training issue. Some TWHs rack but they are āsupposedā to do a running walk. Is your wifeās trainer a gaited person? That TWH should not be pacing! How is s/he shod?
I have never heard of a Paso/Walker! Interesting cross, since the Paso gaits are so very different from a running walk (other than being lateral gaits they are nothing like a running walk)! I am really surprised to hear that yours racks. Neither a Paso Fino nor a Peruvian Paso normally racks.
I have very little experience training gaited horses but what experience I do have taught me that even some of the naturally gaited ones (the ones who gait in the pasture as well as under saddle) need good training to gait WELL under saddle. Some need more help from their trainer/rider than others.
Our barn is full of gaited horses who all know how to back up pretty well. I agree with RPM, I would get him checked out by a vet or chiropractor. A lot of gaited horses develop issues like that, but its nothing that isnāt correctable.
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I am really surprised to hear that yours racks. Neither a Paso Fino nor a Peruvian Paso normally racks.
The Paso Fino corto and largo are essentially the saddle rack and rack, just different terms.
To clarify a few things: I got the horse as a 4 y/o. She had never been touched before I walked into the feedlot to get her. She was born on that property, and spent her entire first four years there. So no one did anything with her before me.
I have never trained a gaited/racking/run-walking etcā¦ or whatever type of horse before. So, she has had no training for that. However, she does gait, rack, or something that is not a trot, is extremely smooth, but is not a pace. I only know about pacing because of the Standardbred Pacers I have seen, and a video I watched a few years ago when my wife bought her TWH. And her horse does pace, as does every other TWH I have ever seen on the trails around here. Some of them do something other than pace, but I have seen all of them pace at one time or other.
All other horses I have trained had five gaites IMO, those being walk, trot, canter/lope, gallop, and run. Of course the canter had to be taught for most of them. This horse has a walk, something that is not a trot or pace, a lope, and run. She is barefoot, so it has nothing to do with shoeing. She just does it naturally. She does not trot nor does she pace. Her lope is the smoothest I have ever ridden, and her run is as well.
I have attempted to teach her to back up the same way I have with all other horses. I am thinking it must be physical. She was vet checked when I brought her in, but that was a few months ago. I will check her stifles today. She does back off the trailer, and if something spooks her she will sometimes back up. Other than that, her ears are pinned and she looks like her feet are in concrete. Thanks for the advice so far.
A five-gaited horse (a Saddlebred) has five gaits: walk, trot, canter, slow gait (or stepping pace), and rack.
Your terminology of five-gaited horses is unlike any other horse terminology I have ever heard or read about. A three-gaited horse has walk, trot, and canter. Gallop is a fast, 4-beat canter, but I have never heard any trainer or rider or other horse person refer to it as a fourth gait. The ārunā you mention is not correct horse terminology.
A TWH who paces has either training problems or conformation problems or shoeing/trimming problems, or other health issues.
I believe that the Racking Horse breed got its start by registering TWHs that could not do a proper running walk, but racked instead. So if they were not āgood enoughā for TWH registries, they werenāt accepted according to the breed standard.
I am assuming that the ārackā you are referring to is actually a corto or largo ā thanks, Leather! I donāt know much about the Paso breeds other than that the ones I have seen in show classes do not gait much like the pleasure/trail ones.
Attack, since your mare backs off the trailer and when spooked, I would assume that something in the way she is being asked to back under saddle is a problem for her.
BTW, I never heard of a horse that had to be trained to canter! Watch foals in the pasture! They canter! A green horse often has to be schooled in canter under saddle because many have balance issues learning to canter with a rider on their backs. But they know how ā just not with a rider on their backs.
AFAIK, Paso Finos and Peruvian Pasos do not canter in shows. Nor do racking horses in racking classes.
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I have a gaited horses that is a cross between a Spotted Saddle Horse and a Kentucky Naturally Gaited Horse.
When I first got him, my saddle fit him well. However, his back was āfunkyā - the long muscles on either side of his spine were a bit atrophied. Even though he was in good weight and had some minor fat pockets, his back looked like the spine was sticking up and was a little dropped. I took him off sweet feed and put him on a ration balancer for grass - it improved the amount of protein he was getting as well as filling in needed vitamins/mineral. My vet put him on a selenium/Vit E supplement, and those muscles re-developed and his topline looked great! However, he did not back well either.
I was in a clinic - and the clinician observed that the saddle was way way too narrow for him. In improving his back, Iād forgotten to check saddle fit. Now he has a saddle that actually fits him, and he can back all day long.
I also want to point out that US TWHs have been systematically bred to pace for the show circuit. Itās easier to take a pacy horse, trim and weight the feet to get some kind of a running walk than it is to just let them grow up enough and develop the running walk naturally. If your horse has a lot of champions in its background there is probably a lot of pace bred into him. Canadian TWH, and the US TWH that were not show-bred tend to have a more square gait.
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[QUOTE=RPM;8387437]
A five-gaited horse (a Saddlebred) has five gaits: walk, trot, canter, slow gait (or stepping pace), and rack.
Your terminology of five-gaited horses is unlike any other horse terminology I have ever heard or read about. A three-gaited horse has walk, trot, and canter. Gallop is a fast, 4-beat canter, but I have never heard any trainer or rider or other horse person refer to it as a fourth gait. The ārunā you mention is not correct horse terminology.
A TWH who paces has either training problems or conformation problems or shoeing/trimming problems, or other health issues.
I believe that the Racking Horse breed got its start by registering TWHs that could not do a proper running walk, but racked instead. So if they were not āgood enoughā for TWH registries, they werenāt accepted according to the breed standard.
I am assuming that the ārackā you are referring to is actually a corto or largo ā thanks, Leather! I donāt know much about the Paso breeds other than that the ones I have seen in show classes do not gait much like the pleasure/trail ones.
Attack, since your mare backs off the trailer and when spooked, I would assume that something in the way she is being asked to back under saddle is a problem for her.
BTW, I never heard of a horse that had to be trained to canter! Watch foals in the pasture! They canter! A green horse often has to be schooled in canter under saddle because many have balance issues learning to canter with a rider on their backs. But they know how ā just not with a rider on their backs.
AFAIK, Paso Finos and Peruvian Pasos do not canter in shows. Nor do racking horses in racking classes.[/QUOTE]
Not to get in peeing contest, but I would like to respond to a few points you made:
I have seen few horses canter under saddle in the manner I consider a canter without some ātraining.ā Some times it is just getting strong enough and balanced enough to carry the rider correctly, but it is still training. How many colts have you started and had them canter off correctly on the first ride?
A gallop is not a canter, as you said it is different. Also, ask a race horse trainer, or better yet one who has re-trained a race horse. A gallop is heavy on the front end, while a canter is not. It takes a while, at least for me, to get an OTTB to canter well. So while they may ācanter in the fieldā much as a TWH like my wifeās gaits, running walk or whatever, in the field they do need some help when under saddle. Again, trainingā¦
A run is not a canter, and I donāt think it is a fast gallop either. The horses I have ridden are not heavy on the front end when they run like they are when they gallop. Nor are they collected like they are when they canter.
I only mentioned those as gaits so as to be more clear as a result of all the debate over the ārackā vs āgaitā lingo. So while they are not all technically considered āgaitsā they are different from each other.
I am not well versed in the training of horses that move in ways other than what you would call a āthree gaited horse.ā So ārackā and āgaitā are used synonymously in the circles of horse people I am around. I realize that may be like using Pepsi and Coke in that manner, so I admit my ignorance. I hope everyone can get my meaning with my limited mastery of the TWH/Paso/Fox Trotter/Rocky and so onā¦ vernacular.
As far as TWHās pacing, I am sure it is a training issue, or lack of training. I donāt know of anyone who has taken one to a āTWH trainer.ā So I doubt any of them have been taught to not pace. They are just doing so naturally. But I look at that required training as I would the training for cantering. Training the horse to get in a gait and stay in it. You refer to it as "schooling, and I prefer training. Again, vernacularā¦ 
I know some really good horse trainers, and people in other areas of education, who can adjust the way they speak and the terms they use to fit their audience. Many can even do that when they use a written form of communication.
Back to the issue at hand, she backs off the trailer with the same cue I use to back her on the ground. However, she resists backing on the ground, but not when coming off the trailer. Her hocks and stifles seem fine to me. Though I am no vet. Iām going to have the chiropractor out this weekend. He and our vet work closely together as well as with my farrier.
Chill, dude, I was just trying to help with some feedback including accurate horsey terminology. If you want to go on riding TPHs and asking for advice about your Paso/Walker that racks, fine by me.
I believe in using correct English whenever addressing other English speakers, because it makes for accurate communication.
Every time a person gets on their horse they are schooling the horse, for better or for worse, whether working on movements in the arena or heading out onto the trail. Either way, we donāt let our horses just lollygag along, we school them, for their improvement as well as for ours.
Itās the same with language. Who wants to stoop to the lowest level of communication when clear and accurate use of language can assure that everyone knows what everyone else is talking about, because they have a common LANGUAGE?
Best wishes with your mare; she sounds lovely and I wish youād post pics. We here on COTH love pics!
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Re-working the pace into a useful intermediate gait is basically a matter of āsquaring upā the horse and changing his timing to an even 4-beat gait for running walk or rack. Stepping pace is a bit of a fudge, though comfortable, and it is not as simple as it sounds. There is a very fine and delicate interplay between the speed of the footfalls and the tension/relaxation of the topline muscles, with or without a pronounced head-nod in time with the stride.
The best way is to do A LOT of ādog-walking,ā get him fit, and on the way home on road or trail, ask him gradually to ākick it up a notchā and see what you get.
If itās comfortable and you can lock it in, great. If itās kind of āmumbledepeg,ā use gentle half-halts to help him balance and square it into a 4-beat. I find that ālong and deepā in the dressage sense (no it is NOT Rollkur!) will often help him find the āsweet spotā in which he can gait. Like everything else, itās practice, practice, PRACTICE with fitness and relaxation. āPlayā with it. Think ānoodlingā on a guitar. Produce some nice sounds, then reproduce them. Ingrain a habit and eventually that will become his preferred gait. BTW they donāt all naturally come installed with the gait their breed is known forāno sirree!
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I donāt have experience with Pasos, but I do have experience with TWH. One of the biggest reasons that I have personally witnessed as far as a TWH pacing instead of walking, is the way they are ridden.
If any gaited horse, be it TWH, SSH, Fox Trotter, KMH, RMH, etc. is not gaiting - donāt try to make them gait. 9 times out of 10, there is a stiffness somewhere in the body and they need training at the walk. Get your basic commands down (go, stop, back, turn, bend on a circle, etc.)
They are horses. Just train them as you would any other horse. A relaxed and slightly rounded frame is the goal, as is with any other horse. Forget the āgaitedā part. Thatās where a lot of people get off on the wrong path.
If the TWH is being ridden with a hollow back, high head, is stiff laterally, has a poor saddle fit, a hunched rider in a chair seat, saddle that is too far forward on the shoulders or just doesnāt fit, or long toes, theyāre going to be inclined to pace, stumble, run through the bit, etc. I have no idea if any of these are going on with your horse, Iām just throwing out things to look for.
If it were me, personally, Iād keep training your Paso as you would any other horse. What would you do if a TB werenāt responding to the ābackā signal? Either the Paso doesnāt understand what youāre asking for, or it canāt because of some physical issue. Iād be tempted to get off, teach her the verbal ābackā command on the ground where you can put pressure in multiple areas until she will back on verbal command, then climb back on and try again from the saddle.
Good luck!
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As a general rule you start a gaited horse the way youād start any other horse. Begin with good quality, consistent ground work to build discipline, strength, and fitness. Then, at an appropriate time*, introduce saddle work. At this point what you do about āgaitā training depends on the horse.
Some breeds are well set enough that foals perform their signature gait from the womb. I think Peruvians, Paso Finos, and Iclandics fall into this category. Others will have a non-trot intermediate gait but it may not be what the breed standard (assuming there is one) describes; most of the North American breeds do this. If youāve got a mixed breed then you have the Worst of All Possible Worlds from the training perspective in that you donāt have any idea what the ānativeā gait of the horse will be.
So in the beginning of training with a horse as described by the OP Iād not worry a lick about āgait.ā Let the youngster do what it does at liberty and spend the time on good ground work. I most highly recommend downloading Vladimir Littauers excellent work Common Sense Horsemanship. He has a very detailed seven month program for starting a youngster. His goal is to produce foxhunters and other athletic horses but thatās OK at this point. You can add the jumping stuff or leave it out. Personally, at my age, jumping is just memory. But Iād keep it in even training a gaited horse as it broadens the horseās education and I donāt see how that could be a Bad Thing.
When it comes to backing the horse a new world opens. Now the trainer has to figure out what that ānativeā gait is and how to best develop it. As noted above, the mixed breed horse might have the gait of sire, dam, or something else entirely. This is where the training listens to the horse, figures out what works best for the horse, and develops it. This isnāt ārocket scienceā; itās being a thinking, attentive horseman.
No one here can really give you much of a ātemplateā as you have a horse that is unique in its mixed blood. Without putting hands on the animal itās not possible to make detailed calls. So down load Littauerās book. Itās free on Google if you put the name in the search box. Get the horse ready for saddle and then you can see what you have.
Best of luck as you go forward!
G.
*IMO not less than three; better not less than four years of age.
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[QUOTE=RPM;8388938]
Chill, dude, I was just trying to help with some feedback including accurate horsey terminology. If you want to go on riding TPHs and asking for advice about your Paso/Walker that racks, fine by me.
I believe in using correct English whenever addressing other English speakers, because it makes for accurate communication.
Every time a person gets on their horse they are schooling the horse, for better or for worse, whether working on movements in the arena or heading out onto the trail. Either way, we donāt let our horses just lollygag along, we school them, for their improvement as well as for ours.
Itās the same with language. Who wants to stoop to the lowest level of communication when clear and accurate use of language can assure that everyone knows what everyone else is talking about, because they have a common LANGUAGE?
Best wishes with your mare; she sounds lovely and I wish youād post pics. We here on COTH love pics![/QUOTE]
Chill? Iām fine. But clearly you are upset. We apparently disagree on whether the terms ārunā and ātrainā are or are not part of correct English. LOL What you call āschoolingā I call training. Yes we are always training our horses, and not just when we āget on our horseā either. It seemed you were making a huge deal about the terminology I was using and straying from the point of the post, even though you clearly understood my meaning and my question.
I do thank you for the advice you offered pertaining to the backing issue. I think it is sound.
I want to thank ALL of you who have responded. I have learned a good deal from the responses, and the debates. Though I did not specifically ask about the pacing, I really appreciate the responses about that. We do colt starting and basic trail horse training for the most part as well as conditioning race horses and ālegging upā horses from other disciplines. But the gait/rack issues are somewhat foreign to us. I liked reading from some of you to treat those colts the same as any other we start. That makes sense to me. Thanks again to ALL of you, and keep the advice coming.
