Starting hunter prospect in a dressage program

[Silver_star]

I have a young horse that will be professionally started next year. I am an ammy and this is my first time bringing along a young horse, so I would like to have her in some sort of partial training program, where she can receive regular pro rides, for at least the first few years of her riding career so that I can navigate the ups and downs of a baby horse alongside an experienced pro.

There are a few hunter/jumper trainers that offer training programs in my area, however the turnout options they offer are not stellar (I’m not interested in limiting a 3 year old Warmblood to 4-6 hours of weather dependent turnout a day). There is a reputable dressage trainer in my area that has extensive experience developing young horses, and really prioritizes turnout, so from a lifestyle perspective her farm seems like a great fit.

I have done hunters and jumpers all my life, but I’m not opposed to exploring a new discipline. If my ultimate goal is to develop my horse as a hunter, would starting her in a dressage program be a good foundation? Would transitioning to the hunter ring after a few years be difficult?

As I write this I am thinking the answer is perhaps obvious, but I know very little about the dressage world so I’m genuinely curious about the pros and cons of starting in one discipline before moving to another. I appreciate any insights

[GraceLikeRain]

If the trainer is correct it’s the foundation to everything. A horse taught to seek the hand can be a Grand Prix horse and still happily travel along in a softly connected open throatlatch hunter frame. A year or two of a solid dressage start should yield you a very adjustable balanced young horse.

[CBoylen]

This depends highly on the individual program. A lot ask for collection almost immediately, which is not my thing. And many dressage programs produce very heavy to ride horses. Many would do a great job starting a hunter, but you’d have to actually watch their young horses in person to see what you’re going to get.

[fourfillies]

I pulled my young hunter from a dressage trainer recently. Chose her for similar reasons as OP. She asked too much go into too much collection almost immediately and the mare was pretty unhappy. That said, it was by no means ruinous, just took a few months to chill her out. She’s naturally pretty quiet and happy to amble along in a hunter frame. In my case it wasn’t a dressage issue but a that dressage trainer issue. Good luck with your young one…it’s journey!

[findeight]

Tell any trainer you may interview for the job your goals are in the Hunter ring, not competitive Dressage. Just be honest up front.

Ummmmm….if you are going to board out, be prepared to compromise. You might get better training from an HJ trainer if you are willing to trade a few hours or turnout. As opposed to having him crammed into the bridle and being pressured to “convert” to Dressage for the sake of those few hours.

Just think about it. Many barns don’t have extensive turnout and those that do are cutting it down or selling it. Good to have a list of things that you are willing compromise on as you never know when you may need to move. My no wiggle room items are safe surroundings, excellent care/feeding and quality training services. The rest of it I can work around. I vote for better training for future gials.

[JB]

Every Hunter should be able to put in a decent 2nd Level Dressage test. That amount of flatwork is nothing more than a solid foundation of everything that just makes fences a “jump in the way of a Dressage test”, without going so far as to work on things that aren’t necessarily needed in the Hunter ring.

Everything about basic Dressage is a benefit to the Hunter course (and Jumper).

It doesn’t even need to be about a “new discipline”. You can work on this in a CC saddle, no Dressage saddle truly needed. It just does make some things easier to work on from the rider’s perspective, but you can absolutely do this in a CC saddle with a flatwork-suitable stirrup length (I say that because I’ve seen a lot of riders ride full time with jumping length stirrups).

Teaching that “Dressage” horse to jump will be a piece of cake because he’ll already understand the concepts of rateability for stride length, self-carriage, lateral work to put his shoulders and hind quarters back in line if he gets a little wiggly to a fence, flying changes (though a Dressage trainer may train them a bit differently than a Hunter trainer).

If a trainer asked for collection right away, they are not the right trainer for any horse. There’s a difference between asking a horse to carry himself, and asking for collection which is a very advanced concept. There ARE too many trainers who crank in a horse right off the bat, which is not cool at all.

[GraceLikeRain]

@CBoylen

Many would do a great job starting a hunter, but you’d have to actually watch their young horses in person to see what you’re going to get.

Good point. A truly good dressage programs is a phenomenal start for any horse. A program that says the right things but rushed or cuts corners can produce a balled up unhappy horse that has to be retaught how to find contact and swing through the back.

OP id ask the trainer if you can sit in on a few of their schooling sessions on young horses and watch how they respond to green mistakes, how the horses are carrying the bit, if they seem eager to work, etc.

[Amberley]

I think a dressage foundation is key to success for all horses. But I like to use a professional colt starter that will get the youngsters out of the arena as soon as possible and expose them to a good bit of life, mostly at a walk. A good one will be set up for it with assistants and steady eddy older horses and will have good turnout and feed for the babies and will teach them life skills. They can be western or english, doesn’t really matter to me. I like to do the backing myself or be there to make sure nothing crops up that might be an issue then I want them to learn to horse. Get the winter off, come back at 4 and start dressage or other training.

I have started a lot of 3 yos myself but they just don’t get the exposure to things at home that the young horse starters give them.

No dressage trainer should be asking a young horse to “collect” btw. Go on the bit maybe but no, collection is not happening at 3 or 4. I am not sure what people are referring to on this thread, possibly riding too short and tense.

[Silver_star]

I appreciate these responses! I am stuck on what the best option will be for a 3 year old horse. I want to give her the best start and expose her to as much as possible, without necessarily focusing on a specific discipline until she is a bit older. This dressage trainer is big on hacking, which I love. And 20 minutes from my house, vs 40-50 minutes for other similar (but H/J) programs. I will definitely ask to see her work with other young horses to see what she focuses on and how she has them going, I think that’s a great suggestion.

[Amberley]

If she’s a young horse specialist with a dressage background that’s kind of ideal imho. Getting out and hacking as a baby is just the best thing for a horse. All that walking and seeing new things and learning to be brave sets them up for a good life.

[IPEsq]

My dressage coach is great with young horses, and I have no problems having her do training rides on a young hunter prospect. We also approach teaching lateral movements with a similar philosophy, and although we don’t do everything the same, we work well together. I usually wind up teaching changes myself because I want to do it earlier. She is also a better rider than many of the h/j pros who are easily accessible to me or have barns with other amenities that I would like, and she never reaches for more bit or gadgets to address a rideability issue, and that works for me. A lot of the time, the jumps really aren’t the hard part anyway, it’s the riding in between.

[Railbird]

I’ve had a horse with Clem and Brooks Clements in VA and would send them another baby- the only reason my colt isn’t there is that he’s a stallion and they’re not set up for that. They don’t have a ring on property so it’s a lot of learning to go forward over terrain, strengthening their bodies, lots of turnout and exposure to new things. Their charges to ship out locally for shows are very reasonable and the facility is beautiful if not necessarily fancy. My colt is with the frame in Middleburg and they are Eventers but with a strong focus on young horses and similarly have good turnout and not any kind of super discipline specific asks early on, would also recommend rhem. I’d find someone who focuses on young horses rather than a specific discipline even if the best young horse starters in your area are western. It’s easier to find someone who can take over for the intended job skills once they have the basics well installed about “a job and why you have one” and “forward, turn, stop” are installed.

[Demerara_Stables]

@Railbird

My colt is with the frame in Middleburg

HIGHLY recommend Martin and Joe if that area works for you. They are very, very good with the young ones.

[findeight]

@Silver_star

…I am stuck on what the best option will be for a 3 year old horse. I want to give her the best start and expose her to as much as possible, without necessarily focusing on a specific discipline until she is a bit older.

Assuming it is a safe environment and feed/care/management excellent. And they are trustworthy? The best choice would be a Pro in any discipline who specializes, has facilities for and has TIME to start a youngster on an uninterrupted schedule of regular training rides for an extended period of time.

Trainers who are primarily supported by many active show oriented clients who go to shows have to cater to that group, they don’t really have time. Trainers whose clients run for points or qualifying for something don’t have time. Trainers boasting of year end high point awards…they don’t have time. They have to haul to shows to pay their bills and do not have time.

No matter how good they are and how well meaning, if their business model revolves around training and prepping horses and riders to show? Hauling them to shows, prep and coaching at the show then haul back? They do not have the time to devote to a non show client not producing income from shows. They can’t afford 1-2 hours a day 5 days a week for starting a colt for just their flat rate.

Over 50+ years of boarding out, I have been promised may things by well meaning Pros that failed to keep such promises when the reality of the situation set in.

Your Dressage gal may be a very good choice but does she also regularly haul clients to shows and depend on that income to stay afloat? Are there enough hours in her schedule to really do decent job?

There are some really good suggestions on here of trainers who have proven trustworthy properly starting young stock, be inclined to start there.

[2tempe]

If you go this route, which I think is a good idea (I had some dressage under saddle training put on my driving mare years ago, and it made her a much better driving horse) here are my thoughts:
Go and watch as many of the training rides as you can. Ask trainer what she feels, what she is asking, etc and it will be a great learning experience for you. Also, it allows you to see how the mare is reacting, how easily she learns, when she shows resistance to something. Follow along on the hacks too. Wouldn’t hurt for you to periodically have her coach you riding the mare also so you get the feel of the aids that are being taught.
A friend of mine did jumpers for quite a while and she regularly (1-2x per month) took dressage lessons on her jumpers to keep them adjustable, supple, and listening.

[greysfordays]

I agree I would prioritize a trainer who focuses on young horses over anything discipline specific. It sounds like the dressage coach you found is interesting, but I agree you should check how often she shows bc that will really impact the quality of training at home.

My other concern is I’ve found that dressage horses can be among the spookiest bc they don’t get exposure to much. It might be an unfair stereotype but most of my friends who do dressage wouldn’t dream of trail riding their horses. Hacking out is a great first step, but working over varied terrain and ground work is also pretty important at this age. As well as having field trips for them that are fun and low stress. It’s hard to find time for these as a full time trainer.

I think that people who train young horses tend to view things from the horse’s perspective in developing an animal that is adaptable and confident. They aren’t trying to make a horse fit into a specific way of going and that’s hard for most trainers who do compete and work with mature/seasoned horses.

I say all of this as someone who takes dressage lessons, watches competitions and has a lot of respect for good dressage. I just think someone focused on young horses could be better.

[skydy]

@Silver_star

This dressage trainer is big on hacking, which I love. And 20 minutes from my house.

That’s very good. Hacking is essential for youngsters, and she’s close enough that you can check in on your filly frequently which is important.

I agree with explaining that you aren’t interested in making your filly a competitive Dressage horse, that a hunter/jumper is your goal. If the trainer agrees to take on your filly, ask for the schedule of her training rides and hacks, (remembering that inclement weather can shuffle the hacking schedule) and attend as many rides as you can. Being 20 minutes away is great, that would count for a lot to me.

As @JB mentioned, every well schooled hunter or jumper should be able to do a decent 2nd Level Dressage test, but young horses shouldn’t be pushed into collection.

If you make your plans for your filly clear from the beginning there is less of a chance for misunderstandings down the road.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[TatteredDaydreamer]

I third this, they are great!

[Silver_star]

This is essentially my plan! What I am envisioning is maybe one training ride a week from the trainer to start out. The other rides (so twice a week, assuming a 3 ride a week schedule for a 3 year old) would be myself, with one being a lesson. Give her a light winter (maybe off, as there is the option to turn her out 24/7 there) and then by the time she is 4 the training rides will hopefully move to an ad hoc basis.

[findeight]

Thats a bit different, you are not talking about a trainer starting the horse, you are talking one training ride and one lesson a week from the trainer? Correct?