Starting unbroke 5 year old

Hi all,

I’m looking at unstarted horses for future amateur friendly hunter/jumper. One I’ve come across that I quite like is coming 5 and unstarted, gelded at 18 months, It’s been led into the barn, etc., but no lunging yet and hasn’t been backed. Does anyone have experience starting a young one at this slightly older age? I’ve heard it can be more difficult because they may be more set in their ways, may be more opinionated about ‘working’, and would have seen less as a youngster so may lack exposure when young. On the other hand, older might mean better brain and more mature physically. I’m working with a trainer and this will be my first unbacked horse, but I’ve brought along barely broke before. Just hoping to gather some experiences of others.

I’d look for trainability. Some horses just want to do stuff, others, not so much. Does he move out of your space easily? Is he easy to halter and handle? Is he polite? Is he curious?

I think you can install a work ethic, but it could be easier or harder depending on his underlying personality. If he’s friendly, polite and curious, you’re half way there.

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We have one in the barn that was basically untouched in a field until age 5 when he was very lightly started/backed/taught manners, then chucked back out in a pasture for a year. Started properly under saddle last summer and is now jumping courses, going to small shows and placing well, learning his changes, and is super easy to be around.

I think it comes down to the individual but on the whole, I would not be put off by an unstarted 5 y/o if they have been taught basic ground manners, seemed to have a good brain and a willing, people-centered attitude.

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I would try to teach him something simple but new, and see how he reacts. A simple one, is seeing how quickly he can learn to move off pressure (pressure on the halter) vs following the feet, backing up off pressure, or walking over a pole.

I started a 5 year old mare end of last november, she had some time off over winter when it got too cold, but she is already w/t/c, leg yielding and cantering a small course. She was minimally handled. meanwhile in 2019, I bought a handled (but poorly…very spoiled) gelding, and he was a MUCH bigger challenge as his go to was to throw an absolute tantrum any time he got at all stressed.

Look for a horse that is willing to try with in hand work, and you will get a good feel of how they will respond to training!

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Well, for starters, let’s begin with… have you done this before or is this a new endeavor? If you’re new to this, do you have a trusted professional that can work alongside you or takeover if it all gets complicated?
Second, I would say that it’s almost impossible to determine if you’ve got an ammy/jr friendly horse until you’ve got at least half a year of under saddle and potential low jumps under them. It could be lovely on the ground and a complete gorilla under saddle. It can hack like a dream and blow up like a grenade over the jumps… or be so lazy that it needs a pro on it for a few years to get it really going and understand rhythm and step. Either way, that’s a tough one to gauge from just walking in to the barn and a bit of handling.
Now… the other questions… why was a horse that was gelded in his yearling year now just being broke? Did it get hurt? Was it put on the back-burner? Was it just used as a companion for someone else’s horse? All pertinent questions to ask since it wasn’t being used for breeding and that’s a significant of down time between when someone decided he needed to be gelded and present day.
Is this going to be a horse for you or a potential flip/resale? Green horses can give you the green horse blues. So although it can be a fun project, it also can be a bit of a bummer at times and you may find yourself being bummed out with progress from time to time. It’s also something that may take time to develop, so you could be in this for the longer term than expected.
Lastly, is this a TB or a WB or some other breed? The WBs tend to mature slower and that’s still a baby hippo… but at 5, a TB still has plenty of silly left, too. It’s also just going to come down to the horse. Some are more willing to play the game… some need to be more coached and shown the way.

I think you need to find out WHY this horse sat in a field until it was 5. There might be a good reason no one has started him yet, or it might just be the circumstances of the people, but you should definitely find out the details.

Additionally, you say the horse has not been lunged, etc, but it has been “led into the barn”. Has this horse been handled more than just getting it into a barn? Has it had ANY training on the ground? (general handling, walking/halting/backing up/turning respectfully in hand, moving away from pressure, fly spray, blanketing, etc- Im talking basic baby horse things). If the answer is no, I’d be inclined to pass. That’s a lot more work than just breaking to saddle, and that’s about 5 too many years for me (personal opinion) that the horse hasn’t had a good working relationship with people.

I will say though that I acquired a horse that was 11 that was essentially not broke, and he’s been great. He had been taught to lunge and sat on at the age of 4 or so, and then sat in a field until 11. In this case however, I knew the why (owner had terminal cancer, husband kept the horses until he couldn’t) and the horse was handled and had positive, respectful interactions with humans on a daily basis. He had (and still to some degree has) anxiety about a lot of new things- probably a combination of personality and not being introduced to many new things for a good portion of his life. However, he does have great work ethic! I’ve also met some that were started late in life and were awful to deal with- zero work ethic, highly opinionated, general response to most things was “I’d rather not…”.

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My gelding was a stallion until 4 and wasn’t started under saddle until 6 and then sat in a field with occasional rides until he was 8.

He is super quirky about things but has gotten much better with a lot of trips off the farm, he has been quirky since birth though. He is my heart horse and you can pry him out of my cold dead hands.

My mustang mare was started late, only went to one show before I got her. When I first took her off the farm at my place she had a total legit melt down at her first couple trips off the farm and first show and now she sighs and gets to work.

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It’s a warmblood, which is interesting because at 5 I feel it would be physically more developed than a 3 year old and therefore maybe less prone to injury down the road because it’s had time to grow? But who knows, it’s a gamble in many ways,
Apparently the horse hasn’t been started because of Covid. Some family related health issues, possibly financial constraints, etc., which have happened over the last 2 years.
All good questions the ask, thanks all!
I’ve been riding for about 25 years now so I am up for the challenge of starting something, and I do have a trainer I work closely with, the horse would be coming into a full program.
Others are right, it is going to be the innate work ethic that makes a difference in the end I think.
It’s hopefully a forever horse, but if it turns out we aren’t a good match, I am not opposed to finding it a better fitting home.

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I bought an unstarted 8 year old Nov 2020 because of her breeding and soft sweet temperament (and it was lockdown, I was a bit bored, and I’ll never find another horse for that kind of money where everything in its pedigree jumped 1.50m). The important thing for me was that all the pieces were there- she was generally well handled, hadn’t had Bad Experiences, and it wasn’t her fault she was left out- the owner had bought/imported her from auction, had a non-riding accident, waffled about just breeding the mare, ultimately decided to sell all her horses after 4 years. I got a sweet deal for £4k.

She was not the easiest, I actually hated her for about 6 weeks. She couldn’t be left alone in a stable without rearing/spinning, jumped out of her paddock until I extended the fence to 8ft, broke the cross ties, took me “skiing” when her buddies called for her across the property… I did a lot more relationship building and groundwork than I typically do for 3/4 year old because she matured mentally and physically without human interferences, and was a bit entitled about being big (17.1h) and wanting to do what SHE wanted to do. She’s still very much one to get attached to other horses and sometimes throws her toys out the pram when she is tired (not near as much as she used to though, work ethic slow to build but it’s coming). When she’s on my side there is not a more pleasant animal to work with. The main thing I keep in mind is that I need to make what I want to do, fun for her to do with me- it’s actually been a blast finding out what motivates her and seeing her get excited about certain things. Equally it’s terrible because one of those things is cross country and I never wanted to event. :sweat_smile:

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Just as an aside, there is an increasing amount of research that shows developing young horses slowly and correctly is better for their long term soundness than letting them sit until they are five or whatever. As they are growing their bodies do best if they are introduced to appropriate work; it strengthens bones and develops muscles.

Anyway, good luck if you decide to take it on! Babies are fun. Older not-baby green horses can be less fun because they think they know everything and you are stupid, lol.

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I bought my mare as an unstarted 5 year old. She grew a ton after that, so I felt that waiting didn’t hurt her physically. She had been handled maybe a bit more than the horse in the OP, but not a ton. She was very easy to start and I knew within a few sessions that she would be a good horse for me and was easy to teach. She is naturally very social and intelligent, which I think went a long way towards making her easy to train. I started my gelding at 4 because I felt that was best for him and while he is not quite as easy as she was (she is naturally much braver than he is).

That said, I have started many young horses and I have been riding for even longer than you have, quite a bit longer actually. Be prepared to feel like a fool who cannot ride their way out of a paper bag lol. Riding a horse who has no idea what you want is entirely different than riding a “quirky” or “unwilling” horse who does understand the assignment but may not be super wiling. It can be a very humbling experience. But, it can also be a very rewarding experience. And you will know a horse you backed first in a way that almost no one else ever could.

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I tried beautiful horses that a hoarder breeder owned. They were too old by the time they were broke and others who had bought from her said tho they were lovely, they just didn’t hold up well at all, Then there are the breeders who have them “jumping small courses” at age 3 - that is the other extreme that causes unsoundness. Some break them young then turn them back out to grow. Others show them on the line all over so that they are at least used to the shows and shipping- these might be the best choice IMO if you are starting from scratch.

Purely anecdotal.

My sister and I, separately, bought an unstarted 6 year old mare, and a badly started 10 year old gelding from the same TB farm. The owner was primarily breeding for the track, but several of his breeding were successful sport horses (the most well known was JJBabu). But he was only in the breeding and selling business. If they didn’t sell as youngsters, he just hung onto them in the hope that they would sell the next year.

If they hadn’t sold by the time they were 3, the mares (if they were not part of his breeding program, were just turned out in the pasture. He put out feed and hay for them, and put wormer in their food twice a year, but they were otherwise unhandled.

The colts, on the other hand (he didn’t geld them) were kept in a barn, each with its own paddock. So they were handled (led between stall and paddock), but had no other training.

Some time when he (the breeder) was in his 90s, he was persuaded to stop breeding. A couple of years later, he was persuaded to geld all the males that were not breeding stallions, and put everything up for sale. Whatever had not sold by a certain date would be sold in an on-farm auction.

My sister bought a 6 year old mare, who was the alpha mare in her herd. She was very difficult to catch. We later found out that she had preciously been “sold” twice, but when they couldn’t catch her, the buyers switched to a different mare. The first couple of months were full of drama, as the mare was used to being “in charge”, and didn’t want to take direction from anyone. But once she decided to work WITH my sister instead of AGAINST her, she progressed very quickly. In fact she went from unbacked to competing (in eventing) at Prelim in 2 or 3 years.

Two years (on a Wednesday) later I got a call from one of the people involved with the breeding farm. One of the horses which had been sold at the auction, was in a bad situation. (he was also full brother to the horse my sister bought.) The guy who bought him had taught him to lunge, but when he tried to back him the horse just planted his feet and refused to move. He (and his wife) got fed up with paying board on a horse he couldn’t ride. Unless he was sold by that Friday, he was going to the Thurmont auction on Saturday. On top of being an unridable 10 year old, he had lost a shoe and was footsore. His prospects at Thurmont were not good. I went to look at him, agreed that the obvious lameness was consistent with being footsore, and determined that he was anxious to please.

I bought him (bringing him home on Friday), and went back to the very basic ground work. When I was ready to back him he was perfectly willing to move forward. He was not as brave as his sister, and WOULD plant his feet if asked to do something he thought was scary, and not as good a jumper, but turned out to be very competent eventer up through Novice. I leased him out to two junior riders, and he took good care of them. I also used him for the 6 year old niece of a co worker, who would come for a visit a couple of times a month.

He was the third horse I had trained “from scratch”, and he was actually much easier than the previous two (who were more appropriate ages).

Bottom line - from my perspective - being unstarted at 5 would not, in itself, concern me at all. What is much more important is whether the horse’s basic attitude is a desire to please, or “you and what army?”

Both of these horses ended up having arthritis in their mid teens, but I suspect that was genetic, rather than a result of starting late.

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Sounds like it very much comes down to the horse. Funny enough I tried a different horse recently while on my horse hunt, and while talking to the owner heard that her husband and her had recently come across an 8 year old QH he was starting. The husband got along well with the mare but apparently she could take or leave most other people.