I have a 5 year old Friesian mare I’m starting under saddle.
What is your system for starting a youngster under saddle?
I apologize I’m trying to learn this site and deleted 5 posts I think…sorry don’t know which ones.
First of all, it sucks not having a trainer around that you like. Even when you have the knowledge, it’s nice to have someone who has the muscle and “stick” to get through the first few rides with confidence.
You mention swelling in the girth area, even if you think you have the source of that discomfort fixed you want to have her gone over by a vet to make sure there isn’t any pain issue. Especially at this critical point in her career we want these experiences to be pleasant.
You might also pony her from another horse. I’ve had some that just couldn’t wrap their mind around what the hell someone was doing ABOVE them. A smaller enclosure to ride in can nip that bolting in the bud. A lot of race horse people back horses in their stalls to avoid such incidents and the potential injuries accompanying them. I’ve done that on particularly reactive horses so we can at least have a little steering before we hit the big wide world, but that can be seriously dangerous in its own right. I was betting on my ability to climb the stall wall to safety verses being trampled to death if things went poorly. A smaller enclosure like a round pen might be better in this case, but I prefer a square so you have corners to work with. Buy some panels and make a small one. You can’t get into as much trouble in 15 meters.
Have you taught her to longe? She should be solid on the longe before you get on, then after a few walk / halt sets, your partner can longe her with you just sitting on top. Again, walk and halt, but on a longer line than a lead rope. Then progress to trot-walk-halt. Keep all the cues coming from your partner who is longing, so the cues are clear to her. This is all best done in a small enclosed area or round pen.
Honestly, though, I would find a trainer, even if it means shipping her somewhere for a few months. Starting a horse is a very specific skill, and it will be much easier to start her (and the 3yo) right, than to have a disaster that has to be fixed.
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I do have a round pen and a large enclosed arena. She does know how to lunge on a line and knows voice commands well. We had graduated to leading her around the large arena with me on top . Since she was bolty we went back to the round pen.
I may try to pony her, my riding horse is only 14.3 quarter horse and she is 1500 pounds of baroque style Friesian so not sure if I will be sitting above her but worth a try.
Sending her away to training is not an option at this point. Our household budget was recently cut in half and I simply can’t afford that. The vet, who I work for, was just out to do vaccines and exams. Teeth are good also. Saddle fits well and the girth we are working on.
I will continue her ground work also. Recently we added In ground driving from her girth area. Holding the reins at her withers and using voice commands for walk trot whoa.
Any other ideas people have for us to build on please let me know. Thank you all.
You might try ground driving her in the open, (maybe a fenced field) just to let her build some confidence. Start not going too far and gradually increase your walks. It’s a big step for a youngster to work by themselves. Do you have a friend that can ride along with you?
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Equibrit that is a good idea. I don’t have another rider however we can work up to ground driving in the open dressage arena and then around the property. It is perimeter fenced. The pasture is about 3 acres we could do also. Review in round pen, then large enclosed arena, then open dressage arena then around the property. Another tool for us to sharpen, thank you!
Don’t be in a hurry either, let her stop and look at stuff around the place, step over logs, go through creeks, up banks, Just find interesting new things to show her.
Equibrit, she knows the property well since she gets turned out to graze it. I can make some obstacles and things to explore though . Good idea. Thank you
Sorry, I’ll be blunt.
Your horse is 5yrs, has had 3 yrs of training and it’s still bucking?
Either your mare is in pain or your training program isn’t good.
Since you said your mare’s health is good… Your ground work isn’t good at all and your general training plan isn’t appropriate for that mare.
You need a trainer because you are clearly way over horsed and you have that 3yrs old who should already be started.
What you’ve done or accomplished before is irrelevant, what is important is what you can do now… which is proving itself not to be so succesfull yet.
Don’t hurt yourself… Find a trainer.
Don’t rely on the internet to solve your horse’s bucking problem. It is too dangerous…
We have been taking it slow as I’m usually by myself, I’m 40 now and don’t have access to a professional trainer I trust.
Find a trainer.
Stop with the « there’s no one I can trust for my Lovin Dobbin » bs.
You really believe that no one in Nevada could help you? No one is good enough?
Maybe it won’t be « exactly » how you would do it… but look where your techniques got you so far?
You do have a real problem.
Actually, you are having 2 problems.
Find a trainer.
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Alibi,
At 3 years old she was fitted for her keuring. Was not my intention to ride her as a 3 year old. I want to let this slow maturing horse grow. As a 4 year old I had health problems so I did what I could just grooming. She is a fiesty girl that will buck while playing a ton. She naturally has that desire. So yes, in the 100 times she has worn a saddle she has improved a ton. But this was inconsistant through her life until beginning of March or so.
The only trainers around where I live are Mexican horse dancers that train with fear and pain. So I will stand by my words and not trust them. I can’t afford to send her away for training. I said that too.
To give myself a bit of credit I have worked with her in hand to be successful at a keuring, she can tie, load, clip, lunge, stand for the farrier and be still at the mounting block for mounting. Considering all this I think I have been successful until this point. You don’t need to assume everything I’ve done is wrong .
Was trying to see if there were some fresh ideas for me to work on to improve. I’m in no hurry. I don’t show anymore. I ride in my backyard for fun. These horses are not investments I’m trying to make money on. Neither one of these young ones are physcho. She is energetic. Nervous with me on her back and trying to find support to work through this rough patch.
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Not seeing what is happening with the 5 year old, I’d say you should just wait to do anything with the three year old until you have money to send to a trainer. I start youngsters and I’d much rather start with something totally feral than something someone has mucked around with and gotten into bad habits (like bucking or bolting).
The 5 year old should not still be bucking if you’ve really been on it 100 times. My personal horse had less than half that many rides as a three year old and was WTC steering and hacking out alone or with friends with maybe 25 to 30 rides under his belt. I’d suggest going back to ground work with this horse…definitely don’t keep getting on if she’s taking off–it’s just going to ingrain the habit more and more.
Ground drive if you know how, though I would make sure she’s solid in the round pen and then the fenced arena before going into a 3 acre pasture…too much space to get into trouble with a horse who bolts.
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The 100 times is wearing a saddle spread over the last 3 years. She wore it in the round pen as a 2 year old. 3 Year old year i was fitting her for her keuring, didn’t want saddle sweat to bleach her black coat so no saddle. I was recovering from surgery and weak most if her 4 year old year. So now as a 5 year old I’m getting serious about starting her.
I was looking for holes in my prep work and looking to get my confidence boosted.
I have backed her like 10 mini rides on a lead line. She got bolty that one day when we unsnapped the lead. But she stopped each time. She did not buck. Her bucking history was to let you all know that she is not easy. Complete bronc with the saddle at first. She has come a long ways. She does not buck during our training but I know she has that ability.
The 3 year old is not a problem. Just introduced him to a sursingle and didn’t offer to buck. I wasn’t asking for opinions on him just mentioning my desire to improve my confidence in my training.
I was the person people would bring their babies to to start 15 years ago. I do have skills. Im not mucking up the ground work. I’ve been out of the starting babies world for a bit and wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something . I appreciate those people who have suggested some exercises that may help fill in with what I missed.
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Green Friesians, it also could be that you have a very sensitive mare and she is picking up on your anxiety and hesitancy and it is making her more anxious. Some horses are just more sensitive and “in tune”. My mustang is. Any sort of tension on my part, or hesitancy, and she feels she has to take over to “keep herself safe”. Some horses need a much more confident leader than others. Just a suggestion as to why she is so nervous and her flight instinct is kicking in. Of course this is all assuming pain has been ruled out.
The reason I suggest this is you do comment that you had a bad experience with a horse, and have a little less confidence than prior. You may not even realize you are tensing up. Make sure your jaw is relaxed (yes, it does have an effect on the rest of your body as inconsequential as it may seem), and focus on each part of your body working your way down to your feet. Breathing exercises and mentally and physically making sure each part of your body is relaxed, and see if it makes a difference while on her. Just a suggestion, it at least can’t hurt and make you more aware if you are unconsciously tight or tense anywhere.
You should absolutely be longeing her in full tack. 100 times is nothing. I start horses at 21/2 to 3 longeing, then gradually proceeding the saddle then after careful introduction to a bridle, 5-10 min at a time, I eventually get to going in saddle and bridle, Then carefully loose side reins, gradually over time adjusted. always with endless verbal support.
Only the would I consider getting on, first just sitting, and the walking, and sometimes going straight to trot.
You are, now that she is 5, hurrying your program, it appears with many gaps in it.
Consult the USDF website, Go on line for other sites like this https://www.equinenow.com/dressagenevadatraining.htm
Yes you may have to ship her, but that’s less expensive and traumatic than a serious hospital stay!
Good training plans don’t interfere with horse’s physical and psychological growth.
It usually doesn’t take much to get them going as 3 yrs old. A few 15-20 minutes riding sessions per week where you walk-trot-canter briefly is actually just good for their strenght and mental.
The only trainers around where I live are Mexican horse dancers that train with fear and pain. So I will stand by my words and not trust them. I can’t afford to send her away for training. I said that too.
Look again… or ask people here about trainers in your region. Check with USEF or the Friesian association you’ve dealt with. You were not alone at that Keuring? Why don’t you ask them who they train with?
To give myself a bit of credit I have worked with her in hand to be successful at a keuring, she can tie, load, clip, lunge, stand for the farrier and be still at the mounting block for mounting. Considering all this I think I have been successful until this point. You don’t need to assume everything I’ve done is wrong
Basic ground work and riding are two different things.
Was trying to see if there were some fresh ideas for me to work on to improve. I’m in no hurry. I don’t show anymore. I ride in my backyard for fun. These horses are not investments I’m trying to make money on. Neither one of these young ones are physcho. She is energetic. Nervous with me on her back and trying to find support to work through this rough patch.
You sound like you are having a ton of fun.
She will bolt and buck again.
You have confidence issues.
You have training issues.
Tricks and little ideas on how to work from the ground won’t make it better undersaddle if you have riding problems. You shouldn’t get on if you are anxious.
I’m not offering you tips and training advices because I would feel responsible if something happened to you.
What you are doing is dangerous and could escalate quickly.
Find a trainer.
There are plenty of good dressage, jumping or western trainers in Nevada.
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Is there a Chiropractor in your area? Your mare may have a rib out. I agree with finding a young horse person to help you. It’s important to know when you need help.
She seems like a lovely mare. I know my friesians can be quite tricky for saddle fitting, but once I got them comfortable, they were very willing partners.
The only friesian farm farm I know off the top of my head in Nevada is Maddi’s Friesian Farm. I have talked with Ruth Page,who owns it, quite a few times. She may have some good training connections. Sometimes just getting the first few training rides out of the way with a professional who can sit out the sillies makes a world of difference.
I like to climb on and off off a lot the first few rides so they know that I can/will and am not a permanent part of them:). I also find that Friesians tend to bolt when they get overfaced. They are very stoic… and don’t always give the little early warning signs unless you are tuned in and then they get overwhelmed and say… “I can’t do it!!!” And leave… so sometimes you need to go really slow and make sure they understand ALL of what you are asking.
I second the recommendation to contact Ruth at Maddi’s Friesians. I’m sure they know of someone in the area.
I would triple check saddle fit and rule out all pain issues.
Curious to know your mare’s breeding? I love the baroque lines. 
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I’ve had the opposite experience with my Friesians. Two mares and never a bolt in either, no matter what the situation. They will stop and freeze and shoot their head straight up. :lol: It’s interesting. There are definitely different characteristic in different bloodlines.
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I would do as much desensitizing work as possible with a horse like that. Bags, tarps, umbrellas, slapping the saddle, get her upset, and teach her how to calm down and stand to get a relief. Flex her, like a cowboy does, one rein stop from the get go. You need to be able to teach her to shut down at anytime. Line drive as much as possible too. You want to go slow, but you shouldn’t have to tiptoe around her. I try to be very deliberate in everything that I do with a horse that can be a bit sensitive or bolts out of fear/confusion.
But, you might have too much baggage with her to keep you from doing your best for her. Images can scar your mental mindset and make you not as effective as a trainer. I had a horse like that and I had to use a younger more confident rider to get her going. I am also older, and have started many by myself. Now I leave it up to a younger person.
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