Stellar mares producing stellar foals

[Imaginagent]

While I love Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta, a comment made on the California Chrome thread got me thinking. I will like to see their foals race, but am skeptical about how they are going to be “great.” Just wondering how many truly stellar race mares have had anything close to them in foals. I don’t remember hearing anything so great out of Winning Colors, Rags to Riches, Lady Secret, etc. If someone knows how some are running, please let me know.

I know you breed best to best (of what you think is best!) hoping for the best, but in reality, how likely is it that the first two are going to take the triple crown races by storm?

[dani0303]

Take Charge Lady, dam of both Will Take Charge and Take Charge Indy, won over $2.4 million on the track.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/take+charge+lady

[Sancudo]

Personal Ensign, off the top of my head. She was undefeated of course, and while none of her foals were freaks, they were very very good racehorses. She had My Flag, a winner of 1.5 million and the Juvy Fillies, who was in turn the dam of Storm Flag Flying, a winner of almost 2 million, and also Juvy Fillies winner. She had Our Emblem, who sired Derby and Preakness winner War Emblem. She was the dam of Salute, who is the dam of Mr. Speaker, winner of the Lexington Stakes this year. Other stakes winners were Miner’s Mark and Traditionally.

But stallions very rarely out produce themselves on the track, and they have many more chances than one foal a year, of course. I don’t think anyone is realistically expecting Zenyatta or Rachel to be Broodmare of the Year, but one can hope for it. Kind of like how we all hoped that Nicanor and Lentenor would be the next Barbaro.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Urban Sea won the world’s greatest race, the Prix de l’Arc in 1993.

As a broodmare she went on to give us…

1996 Urban Ocean (filly) … 1st Gallinaule Stakes G3

1997 Melikah (filly)… 3rd Oaks Epsom G1, 2nd Irish Oaks G1

1998 Galileo (colt)… 1st Derby G1 (Epsom), 1st Irish Derby G1, 1st King George G1 (beating Fantastic Light) and 2nd Irish Champion Stakes G1 (beaten a short head by Fantastic Light in an epic stretch duel)

1999 [B]Black Sam Bellamy /B… 1st Gran Premio del Jockey Club (ITA) G1, 1st Tattersalls Gold Cup (IRE) G1

2001 All too Beauriful (filly)… 1st Middleton Stakes G2

2002 My Typhoon (filly)… 1st Diana G1, 1st Ballston Spa G2, 1st Mint Julep G2

2006 [B]Sea The Stars /B … 1st 2000 Guineas G1, 1st Derby G1, 1st Eclipse G1, 1st Juddmonte Intl G1, 1st Irish Champion G1, 1st Prix de l’Arc G1 … all in his 3yo year.

2009 [B]Born to Sea /B… 2nd Irish Derby G1

[Drvmb1ggl3]

The favourite for this year’s Derby at Epsom is the Aidan O’Brien trained Australia.
He is a son of the great Ouija Board, by Galileo… daddy won the Derby, mom won the Oaks.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Miesque, she won the Breeders Cup Mile twice, as well as 7 other G1s in France and England, most of them against males.

She was the dam of …

Kingmambo, who won the French 2000 Guineas G1, the St James G1 at Royal Ascot, Prix du Moulin G1. He would also go on to become a famous sire with a $300,000 stud fee.

East of Moon… she won the French 1000 Guineas G1, French Oaks G1, Prix Marois G1 against males.

Miesque’s Son.… a G3 winner in France who became a successful sire in the US, siring Breeder’s Cup Mile winner Miesque’s Approval

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Don’t know if she qualifies as a “stellar” race mare, but Better Than Honour was G1 placed on the track.
In the shed she gave us Rags to Riches, Jazil, Man or Iron, Casino Drive.

[Mara]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;7583262]
Miesque, she won the Breeders Cup Mile twice, as well as 7 other G1s in France and England, most of them against males.

She was the dam of …

Kingmambo, who won the French 2000 Guineas G1, the St James G1 at Royal Ascot, Prix du Moulin G1. He would also go on to become a famous sire with a $300,000 stud fee.

East of Moon… she won the French 1000 Guineas G1, French Oaks G1, Prix Marois G1 against males.

Miesque’s Son.… a G3 winner in France who became a successful sire in the US, siring Breeder’s Cup Mile winner Miesque’s Approval[/QUOTE]

I was about to post on Miesque! What a mare.

[vineyridge]

There was once a very nice mare named Two Lea, who was Champion 3 yo Filly, and Champion Handicap mare the next year. She was the dam of Champion Tim Tam, and also dam of On-and-On and Pied D’Or, as well as the excellent broodmare, Mon Ange.

On-and-On was the sire of Forward Pass and broodmare sire of Alydar. He won the Arlington Classic, the Widener, the Brooklyn and the Hawthorne Gold Cup.

Tim Tam won almost all the Florida 3yo races, then the Derby and Preakness and was 2nd in the Belmont after suffering a cracked sesamoid. He wasn’t a great sire, but he did get Tosmah and Tamerett. He was primarily a broodmare sire.

[vineyridge]

And let us not forget Nereide (GER), daughter of Tesio’s mare Nella da Gubbio, who was undefeated in ten races, and then became the dam of Nordlicht and Nuvolari, both of whom were excellent racers during WWII. Catnip was 2nd dam of Nereide. Nordlicht was brought to the US as war booty.

Even Kincsem (undefeated in 56 races) has been a good broodmare line in Germany. One of her daughters won the Germany Derby.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7583290]

Even Kincsem (undefeated in 56 races) has been a good broodmare line in Germany. One of her daughters won the Germany Derby.[/QUOTE]

This is one reason I argue that Kinscem really ought to be at the head of the list of the greats–won everything, against both sexes, at various distances, AND was a producer. She really had it all. (Well, except looks, but really, who cares at that point?)

[Mara]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7583286]
There was once a very nice mare named Two Lea, who was Champion 3 yo Filly, and Champion Handicap mare the next year. She was the dam of Champion Tim Tam, and also dam of On-and-On and Pied D’Or, as well as the excellent broodmare, Mon Ange.

On-and-On was the sire of Forward Pass and broodmare sire of Alydar. He won the Arlington Classic, the Widener, the Brooklyn and the Hawthorne Gold Cup.

Tim Tam won almost all the Florida 3yo races, then the Derby and Preakness and was 2nd in the Belmont after suffering a cracked sesamoid. He wasn’t a great sire, but he did get Tosmah and Tamerett. He was primarily a broodmare sire.[/QUOTE]

Re: Tosmah - her dam Cosmah was a nice stakes mare, if not at the very top. But she also gave us Halo.

[Linny]

This reminds me too much of a Monty Python bit, but I agree that Australia is fabulously bred. Of course Americans remember Ouija Board for her Breeders’ Cup efforts but it is worth noting that she was of top class in Europe too.

[Imaginagent]

Thanks for all the info!

[PeteyPie]

Since California Chrome is in the spotlight, here is one of his female ancestors:

Numbered Account

earned $607,048 race record 22-14-3-2

from pedigree query:

USA Champion 2 Year-Old Filly, 1971.
May 19, 1971: set an Aqueduct stakes record of 0:57 2/5 for 5 furlongs on dirt in winning the Fashion Stakes.
October 22, 1972: in winning the Spinster Stakes she equaled the Keeneland track record of 1:47 2/5 for 1 1/8 miles (9 furlongs) on dirt set by Round Table in 1957.

As a broodmare she produced
-Dance Number, earned $415,418; dam of Rhythm, champion 2yo colt, and Not For Love

-Private Account, multiple winner and sire of G1 winning filly Personal Ensign as well as G1 winning stallions Valley Crossing, Personal Flag (sire of Say Florida Sandy), Private Terms, and more.

-Polish Numbers, stakes placed, sire

-Secret Asset, dam of G1 winner horse Assatis (Italian Gold Cup)

[Mara]

No such list is complete without Toussaud:

4 Gr.1 winners: Honest Lady, Chiselling, Empire Maker, and Chester House
Gr.1 stakes-placed & Gr. 2 winner Decarchy

[Naina78]

[QUOTE=danceronice;7583308]
This is one reason I argue that Kinscem really ought to be at the head of the list of the greats–won everything, against both sexes, at various distances, AND was a producer. She really had it all. (Well, except looks, but really, who cares at that point?)[/QUOTE]

I’ve never heard of this mare before! I understand that pedigree scholars know far more than the average mainstream fan (like me); is she mentioned when pundits are comparing the greats, ever?

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=Naina78;7584490]
I’ve never heard of this mare before! I understand that pedigree scholars know far more than the average mainstream fan (like me); is she mentioned when pundits are comparing the greats, ever?[/QUOTE]

Yes, her name is generally mentioned in any discussion of greatest TB racehorses ever.
She did race a long time ago though, and mostly in central Europe (Hungary, Austria, Germany), and there are those that will doubt the quality of the opposition she faced. She did make the trip to England and France though, which would be considered to have the best racehorses of the time.
Either way, 55 races unbeaten is an incredible achievement anywhere.

[Sunsets]

@vineyridge;7583286

There was once a very nice mare named Two Lea, who was Champion 3 yo Filly, and Champion Handicap mare the next year. She was the dam of Champion Tim Tam, and also dam of On-and-On and Pied D’Or, as well as the excellent broodmare, Mon Ange.

How cool to see Two Lea mentioned! She’s in my dressage mare’s pedigree. (on her dam sire’s side, through Mon Ange). Her mom wasn’t a very good racehorse - hence her second job as a warmblood producer

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;7584658]
Yes, her name is generally mentioned in any discussion of greatest TB racehorses ever.
She did race a long time ago though, and mostly in central Europe (Hungary, Austria, Germany), and there are those that will doubt the quality of the opposition she faced. She did make the trip to England and France though, which would be considered to have the best racehorses of the time.
Either way, 55 races unbeaten is an incredible achievement anywhere.[/QUOTE]

Yep, people have never heard of her in America for the most part (unless they’re pedigree gurus or they read one of CW Anderson’s books on famous thoroughbreds, where he featured her and the legend of the gypsies–supposedly Kinscem (say “KEEN-chem”, roughly) was stolen out of her stall as a filly by gypsies, leaving a whole bunch of fancier horses behind-apparently as horses go she was butt-ugly. When the law caught up, they asked why THAT horse of all the ones in the barn and the leader of the thieves said that this one was the great one.) But there’s a statue of her in Budapest and she’s considered a national hero.