Step back out of trailer

[QHEndurance]

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time joiner/poster. I’ve had horses for 30+ years and have started and trained my own mostly for ranch use or general trail riding. I’m not a professional. I live in the middle of nowhere so getting a professional trainer involved is not feasible- they’re all hundreds of miles away and I have no way of checking in physically on a regular basis and no real desire to ship him off if I can avoid it. The horse in question was purchased a year ago already started.

Looking for training tips/advice. I have a 2015 quarter horse gelding. Well stsrted under saddle. Good ground manners. Walks, trots, backs in hand with no issues. He listens and responds softly to cues. Yields shoulders and hindquarters both under saddle and on the ground. We don’t spend a lot of time on groundwork, so I’m open to ideas there. Used primarily on our cattle ranch and dabbles in distance riding.

Our issue is he will not step down out of my trailer (no ramp). He is small enough to turn around, and he loads wonderfully, but I feel this is a requirement for all horses. I have built a bridge to step up/down from, but he wont step backwards off it. He will step up with one front, and back off. He will step up with both fronts and back off. But once that first hind steps up, then both hinds are up and then back is not an option. I can’t load him and leave him as the trailer is a slant load with rear tack and its wide enough to tempt him to turn around in the back stall - he has tried and came out awkwardly sideways reinforcing his hatred of backing out of the trailer.

Hopefully I didn’t leave out any key details.

[Huntin_Pony]

Two pieces of advice from earlier threads like this:

1. find a place to park the trailer where there is a little elevated area so that the step down is very small. Practice there and use lots of praise. Try and add height gradually as he becomes more and more confident over time.

2. find a trainer or friend who has solved this problem before and get yourself some help. With a cooperative fellow like you describe, it should not be too difficult for someone with experience and patience.

[QHEndurance]

Thanks! I’ll try parking the trailer where we basically eliminate the step down and see if that helps! Seems like that should have been an obvious place to start but alas. Appreciate the tip.

[jherold]

I used John Lyons’s method to teach self loading on one horse even though he loaded just fine. Make sure he knows back up on the ground and step forward to a light tap first. Then have him put one foot in multiple time then both fronts multiple times. You have to be quick to back him as soon as the first hind foot lifts up and praise him for backing up. Get him putting one back foot in multiple times. Eventually they realize that there’s a step back there and they learn to feel for the step.

[findeight]

Sounds like he’s got no issues going in but has a bad memory of blindly stepping out and down backing out. Understandable, he got scared, maybe hurt himself and somebody might have rushed him off . Matter of reconditioning and repetition. Think the idea of backing him out on a stable riser to eliminate the stepping down part is a wonderful one. Once he gets comfortable backing out, you can gradually reduce the heigh and increase the step down until he gets confident. Don’t be afraid to start over if needed.

Try to work on it daily and do not rush things. They usually get over these things with competent handling and pratice.

[betsyk]

Is there any place on your property where he can be encouraged to simply back down a slight slope, or ideally, a step? Is there a step into your barn, even a small one? Can you create something short term?

I anticipated this problem with my young horse and part of our groundwork when he was young was to back down slopes, and then back down steps. Our boarding barn has all sorts of crazy places to walk in and out of, so we had lots of places to practice. He was a little reluctant at first but picked it up like a champ in a no-stress environment. Look for places on your farm where you can uncouple the ideas of backing, backing off a step or down a hill (=trailer ramp), and the trailer factor.

Another idea that might help: teach him a command word for “back and step down.” Teach that command word so he associates it with the low-stress backing down a step or slope that you’ll be practicing. Somewhat like teaching a blind horse to navigate new places, you want to help him understand what’s about to happen so he knows what to do. Our horses know the word “back” means “take a step backward now, it’s time to get out of the trailer” and then “Step!” means “the ground is goign to disappear from under my back feet, but I’ll be out of this box!” Usually I’ll give them 3 or 4 “Back” steps before we say “Step!”

[DunByMistake]

All good advice above. I would work on backing off a step outside of the trailer first. I do this with my horses before loading in trailer.

Is your rear tack removable? I wonder if part of his issue is he can’t really see the step down well with the rear tack blocking the view. I always let my horse turn his head a bit so he can see the step with the side of his eye rather than looking directly straight backwards at it. My horse is a good loader and unloader but I think he would feel like he was falling into the abyss if he had to back out perfectly straight and try to maneuver around a rear tack.

[findeight]

Just thinking back, any time I got one that came afraid to step back and down, they had also, obviously, cracked their heads on the roof of the trailer flying backwards in panic after stepping blindly off the edge. Think about that from the horses perspective. Scary.

IMO building confidence needs to start from square one by working on getting the horse truely halter broken. Think that’s a missing block in the training and trusting foundation that allows this to get started. Most people either don’t know how to build this foundation and/or don’t want to spend the time on it. Then you buy it and uncover the problem, often the hard way.

Whole thing starts with a disobedience flying back against the halter. That’s your root problem and fixing it will take time but teach the horse what to do and to trust you. Takes time but very doable and worth every second down the road when you need them to trust you and comply with whatever you are asking. Not just for backing out of the trailer, for good, safe handling in any stressful situation. including emergencies. Trailer accidents, fires, high water, they need to trust you and follow your guidance without questioning, it could save their lives and you from injury.

I even worked with my show Hunters and trainers were always very complimentary about how well mine loaded and unloaded and I wasn’t even the one hauling them. Just always enforced proper manners. And mine were not stupid and quite capable of dragging the less experienced barn staff around to and fro turn out given the chance. Never put a foot wrong with experienced handlers and if they tried with me, they got corrected pronto.

Proper halter breaking transfers into all phases of being handled. Consistency is the key.

[wannabedvm]

@findeight

Just thinking back, any time I got one that came afraid to step back and down, they had also, obviously, cracked their heads on the roof of the trailer flying backwards in panic after stepping blindly off the edge. Think about that from the horses perspective. Scary.

IMO building confidence needs to start from square one by working on getting the horse truely halter broken. Think that’s a missing block in the training and trusting foundation that allows this to get started. Most people either don’t know how to build this foundation and/or don’t want to spend the time on it. Then you buy it and uncover the problem, often the hard way.

Whole thing starts with a disobedience flying back against the halter. That’s your root problem and fixing it will take time but teach the horse what to do and to trust you. Takes time but very doable and worth every second down the road when you need them to trust you and comply with whatever you are asking. Not just for backing out of the trailer, for good, safe handling in any stressful situation. including emergencies. Trailer accidents, fires, high water, they need to trust you and follow your guidance without questioning, it could save their lives and you from injury.

I even worked with my show Hunters and trainers were always very complimentary about how well mine loaded and unloaded and I wasn’t even the one hauling them. Just always enforced proper manners. And mine were not stupid and quite capable of dragging the less experienced barn staff around to and fro turn out given the chance. Never put a foot wrong with experienced handlers and if they tried with me, they got corrected pronto.

Proper halter breaking transfers into all phases of being handled. Consistency is the key.

Why do you think this horse isn’t properly halter broken? He sounds like he is to me, he just also has a phobia.

[candyappy]

Some horses just have a fear about that drop off on a step up trailer. That foot dangling in space is just something you have to teach them to do and it can take a considerable amount of time for some.

I use John Lyons trailer loading too and it really helps when you load and unload " one foot at a time" and do each one hundreds of times. I’ve never had a horse who refused to back off after learning it.

It just takes a commitment to doing it at the horses pace and not rushing it. Putting the trailer in a place where the drop off is reduced is something I have done with good results.

[QHEndurance]

He is halter broken and does not fly back against the halter. He plants his feet and flat out refuses to move backwards if there is a step behind him. I moved our work to the pallet height bridge (approx a 3" step down) so he could see the step easier, but this didn’t help. He knows he doesn’t “have” to move, and all the softness we have on the ground disappears when there is a step behind.

I’m going to go work more backing up and down hills, backing over ground poles, and then trying the trailer with it parked against a hill so backing out will actually be level or slightly up instead of stepping down.

I am planning on going to a groundwork and obstacle course clinic in the spring where I know I can get additional support. I figure if I can have positive steps and break it down smaller, we’ll either be good to back out of the trailer before that clinic or at least be a little closer.

I truly appreciate all the tips. Please keep them coming!

[DinkyDonk]

Practice and patience and gently asking for a back with a carrot stick. He’ll get it.

[StormyDay]

As a person with one horse who thinks backing out will kill him and another horse who leaps backwards like a deer in straightloads, I just got a trailer that they don’t have to back out of.
They are the best loaders ever. They trailer great. My mentality is If backing up is really that terrifying, why force them

[wannabedvm]

Any way you can borrow a trailer the horse can’t turn around in?

[2tempe]

So my horse rides in a slant load, and he is compact enough that he would quietly turn around and walk to edge of trailer, then do a little hop down to ground. All was well. Until one day he did that and the trailer for some reason rocked a bit and scared him. For the last year we have had issues where he walks to edge and then looks like he’s facing the Grand Canyon. With a helper he will eventually go off, but not fully over the “OMG I have to think” part of it. Not even treats would speed things up. SO I bit the bullet and took said trailer to have a ramp installed. All is well. I’m in the camp of “prefer ramps” anyway so both horse and I are happier.

[cutter99]

The one thing you did not list in your original post was backing consistently on the ground. I would work on this so that he backs on cue every time. Then take the show on the road to your trailer, and start backing there. Set aside plenty of time to work on it, and when I say plenty of time I mean hours at a shot. When I have one like this I load and unload as many times as possible until they feel comfortable. The first one I did this with I did it for 6 or more hours, giving him breaks at times. After that, he has never had an issue unloading.

Many horses are uncomfortable when they can’t see where they are placing their feet when backing. They need to gain confidence, and the repetition is great for doing that.

While I will be the first to admit I own a stock trailer, in addition to a slant load LQ trailer, I will use the stock trailer for hauling any horse I don’t know, that is new to me, etc. BUT, once the horse is mine, they will load and unload into anything I ask them to. Someday, in an emergency situation, they might have to get onto a strange trailer and get off it. And I certainly wouldn’t buy a trailer to fix an unloading problem because that is not a solution to the real issue!

[4horses]

I have one with this same phobia. I just got a slant load trailer. He can turn around and come out. Problem solved!

That said i tried just about everything. I tried leaving him in there to “figure it out on his own.” I tried pressuring him out- that sometimes worked but probably wasn’t very safe . I tried backing him over curbs or steps. Let me tell you- he will walk backwards down a 3 ft bank without any issue. There’s a dirt road next to my property that continually erodes as you walk down it. Starting with a couple inch drop to a 3 ft straight down drop. He could easily walk backwards down that 3 ft drop with the bank collapsing under him without any problems… Put him back in the trailer and the drop may as well be a 1,000ft cliff.

This horse was beaten badly at some point - he has so many anxiety issues, it just wasn’t worth fighting about. Because he is mentally stuck in the bad memory loop. Once you get that much fear in a horse there’s no getting it out. Even very basic things a horse should learn - like whoa- take a million repetitions with him, and then a million more. So unless I wanted to load and unload every day - it was easier to not force him to do something terrifying for him.

I like my new trailer. Yes it would be nice if horses would do everything, but not all horses are wired that way. I don’t like the fact that my horses behavior is so fear based. I try to encourage trust, but i don’t think he will ever give it. The best i can hope for is an attempt at cooperation. If he tries, i reward. Just loading quietly and going places is an accomplishment.

Horses have incredible memories especially involving fear. If you can make backing up a good experience, perhaps you will have better luck. It depends how much time you are willing to invest.

What about a wood bridge like they use at obstacle courses? Try to get 3 hooves on and back him up. Backing over poles or obstacles?

[4horses]

There’s one huge benefit to a horse that doesn’t back out- they won’t fly backwards and run you over on the way out of the trailer. I think it makes them easier to load because they typically stay in a bit better. They wait until you let them turn around before trying to come out.
”‹”‹”‹”‹

[ToTheNines]

If it were my horse, I’d just let him turn around if that’s what he likes to do.

I have a two horse slant with the tack room removed. They wait patiently for me to come in and untie them (trained to do this by getting a treat while they stand tied). Then, they turn around and walk down the ramp. They are wonderful horses, trailering is a breeze with them. Everyone happy. No one rushes, everyone’s chill. I much prefer this to a scramble backwards. When I get a new horse that thinks it must run backwards, I have to retrain it to happily turn around.

[Mango20]

I have a 2+1 with rear and front ramps, but had the same problem with a medium pony. Loaded great, and was happy to walk forward off the front ramp or turn around and walk out the back. I was never able to get her to back out. Bribery didn’t work. Force made her turn into an unmoving ball of muscle until she couldn’t take it anymore and barged blindly forward (she was an AC seizure so I think she had some rough handling in her past). She would back up just fine outside the trailer, and I used “back” along with pressure. I gave up and decided to live with it for 2 years. Then, she was booked to ship commercially, so I knew she’d have to back into a stall. I thought things would go very badly for her if the shippers tried to use force.

I spent about 45 minutes working with her one day. I walked her in the back and out the front, then in the front and out the back, just passing through the trailer forward in both directions. I pulled her into a stall, a few steps past it then asked her to back into the stall. I did a few steps up the ramp then back off, but once she was all the way in she would not back off. She was clearly nervous, and what helped was to just get a little movement, then just highly praise her and let her relax there for a while before asking for more. I finally got her to relax a bit and eventually I was able to move her in any way I wanted. I think what really helped was that we were just going in and out and through the trailer over and over and never shut any doors or drove away. I can’t be exactly sure what caused her light bulb moment, but at some point she was able to get past the extreme tension and realize I just wanted her to back up and nothing bad was going to happen. Once she got to that point, she was cured. She loaded on the commercial trailer perfectly, and has backed into or out of my trailer stalls without hesitation ever since. I’m sorry I can’t tell you exactly what flipped that switch, but I think part of it was taking the time to dedicate to working on it for a long time, without worrying about actually going somewhere. I had plenty of time to be patient, and extremely repetitive.