Stepping out of dressage ring

[Libby2563]

@RemarkableOwl21

I was thinking of trying a new approach of letting him step out of the ring, but then making the consequence be that he has to work harder outside of the arena. I’m not sure how – trotting small circles? Something else?

I actually think your idea is interesting. Everyone’s suggestions are good but are more about overriding his desire to leave the arena than eliminating it. Your idea fits with the notion of making the right answer easy for the horse, and the wrong answer more difficult (though not scary). An example would be to take walk breaks in the “scary” part of the arena and work harder in the attractive area, like near the barn or the gate.

Warwick Schiller uses this principle a lot. He has a video about teaching a young reining horse to lope a circle by steering it back in when it leaves and leaving it alone when it stays. Obviously that’s a lot more subtle than you’ll need to be for your horse who is actively trying to leave though. There’s a similar idea in this video of teaching a horse to stand still for mounting by yielding the haunches when it moves and leaving it alone when it stands still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfuRH383Lio. And this “Choose Where You Work and Choose Where You Rest” video might be useful for you too, though I haven’t watched it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIClBhR3W1M&list=PLRanqnpaErQ5PVpPHRBNwfgs26-EsndmO&index=7.

All of that is to say, I don’t think your idea is worthless. I don’t think the work outside the arena needs to be crazy hard as long as there’s a clear release when he goes back inside. I would expect to have 2-3 rides (or groundwork sessions maybe) in which nothing else is accomplished other than a pressure-release game. It will require good timing and feel, so if you’re not confident you may want to enlist help. Also, if you board make sure that your BO is okay with you working in the areas around the arena (for example, if you would be tearing up the grass or other landscaping).

[RemarkableOwl21]

Yes, it is not set up for test entries. I suspect it’s set up that way to help facilitate the movement of horses and the tractor into and out of the arena from/to other areas of the property.

[RemarkableOwl21]

Thank you for the suggestion. How would raising the outside rein influence the horse? Thanks again.

[sascha]

@RemarkableOwl21

Yes, it is not set up for test entries. I suspect it’s set up that way to help facilitate the movement of horses and the tractor into and out of the arena from/to other areas of the property.

This + ( @Willesdon ) it can be a fantastic set up for horses that anticipate the down transition after mediums or extensions. Instead of wishing, hoping or ugly riding, you just keep your bigger gait and ride right on out of the ring and then, when you’re good and ready, you ask for collection. It reminds the horse to listen to the rider and not read the little white fence.

Editing to add that this is obviously for horses and riders that have their steering and half halts down pat. Not a beginner sort of exercise where a horse might say, “Awesome! We’re out. Heading back to my stall/turnout at mach chicken now!”

[Scribbler]

Can you do a spiral in and out on a 20 meter circle? Going shoulder in one direction and counter shoulder in the other? On both reins? So 4 variations.

This is basic training for both jumpers and dressage. Once you can do this, you have the tools to keep a horse on the rail, or to keep a horse from running out of the arena or to ride past a spook, or keep the horse from grazing on the trail.

It gives you things to do with both inside and outside rein. You can then start the “spiral” aids in either shoulder in or counter shoulder in to get past the corner whichever seems to work best.

[endlessclimb]

Blocks the shoulder. It’s a cheater method, but might get his attention enough that he quits trying to do it.

[SuzieQNutter]

@RemarkableOwl21

Thanks for your advice! It’s very true that I do end up using my inside rein as a last resort when my outside aids fail to keep him from going outside the ring.

It sounds like he is not understanding the outside rein.

Start with figures of 8. This will help teach him if you know how to use contact.

On a 20 metre circle to prove he is in the outside rein, you prove the rein, this means you should be able to ride a circle with a loose inside rein.

If he is not in the outside rein, using the outside rein will turn him out.

If he is in the outside rein using the outside rein will cause a smaller circle

The corners are a quarter of a circle, horses don’t ‘turn’ it is actually a quarter of a circle. Preliminary it is a quarter of a 20m circle. More advanced it is quarter of a 10 metre circle.

If you do not under stand contact start riding on a school master to teach you how to use the outside rein. It will not happen overnight.

I hope that was not as clear as mud.

[Core64301]

I only have an open outdoor arena with some small logs to mark the corners.

Both of mine did this plenty when they were greener. Stepping out is not a big deal. You course correct and go back in.

It’s not a punishable offense.

He/she is either confused, unbalanced, too crooked, or tired/bored. Immediately steer back into the arena and work to address what caused the exit (lot of excellent advice on how to fix it above).

To me, this is simply a sign that there are holes in the basics that still need to be addressed.

Also, neither of my horses have ever ducked out, or stepped out, of a dressage arena at a show. We routinely don’t stay in the box at home. I like to use the logs that mark the corners as ground poles. Sometimes we leave completely and hike around the field then come back and work some more. I like to keep mine guessing. lol It doesn’t translate to “jump out of arena” at shows.

[RemarkableOwl21]

The outside rein contact has been a hurdle for me to understand because I only ride my horse who is new to dressage, like me, and I’ve not felt what it would be like on a schoolmaster-type horse. We only have small moments so far where I feel he is really in my outside rein, generally during and right after leg yielding or doing shoulder in.

[RemarkableOwl21]

Probably not yet.

[RemarkableOwl21]

Yeah, I was kind of taking inspiration from Warwick Schiller about making the horse understand that the arena is more comfortable and less work compared to where he wants to go outside the arena.

[Scribbler]

Yeah not so functional with things like this. You don’t want to use work under saddle as a negative thing or aversive ever.

You need to figure out how to ride this horse well enough that he can’t duck out on you and stops trying. If he can bulge and run out on you like that and knows it, he will do it whenever he wants. On the trail to turn around and go home. Running out of a jump and making you fall off. Etc. Even just running into the center of the arena if he does not want to work.

This is not really about this particular dressage arena but about learning how to ride this horse.

Is the horse green? Or a wily old school ie that has your number? You are new to dressage. Are you new to arena riding in general? This is stuff jumpers also deal with.

[SuzieQNutter]

@RemarkableOwl21

The outside rein contact has been a hurdle for me to understand because I only ride my horse who is new to dressage, like me, and I’ve not felt what it would be like on a schoolmaster-type horse. We only have small moments so far where I feel he is really in my outside rein, generally during and right after leg yielding or doing shoulder in.

No worries we have all been there.

As I said the turn is a quarter of a circle. It is the corners you are losing him, because you can’t circle correctly with the outside rein.

Figures of 8 will help as you are changing the outside rein. Serpentines will help as you are on a half circle when going past the corners and you are also changing the outside rein.

Circles are your friend. Once you can circle correctly, you won’t lose him in the corners and you won’t resort to your inside rein.

Oh and you are saying you are doing shoulder in. If you are doing shoulder in the horse is in the shape of a quarter a circle. You can’t do shoulder in correctly without without using the outside rein.

To check if you shoulder in is correct. In trot in shoulder in on the long side apply your outside leg. If the horse is shoulder-inning correctly your horse will magically circle.

Now when we are talking about aides you are always doing inside leg to out side rein, so when we say apply outside rein - it really means inside seat bone forward, outside seatbone back, stomach asking for forward. Seat not grounding and asking for bounce, inside leg to outside rein. Inside rein proving. Outside leg is holding the shoulder in. Looking at the horizon, in the direction you want to go, thumbs up, heels down, elbows by side, pelvis straight shoulders back. Then apply more outside rein.

Easy huh?

If you do not know dressage and your horse does not know dressage. It is exactly the same as you trying to teach a German person to speak Japanese and you do not speak Japanese or German. Plus the German person never said anything about wanting to learn Japanese.

The most important thing is his mental well being. He must be praised. Proving the inside rein when he is correct is a reward. A little each day no drilling.

He will learn a lot and I mean a massive big lot quicker than you will. You need the drilling. He does not.

He must always have good moments in the Dressage arena, you want him to want to be in the dressage arena. He must never dread going in there.

Sorry I have to go. Hubby is tacking Sim and wants a lesson.

[KBC]

@SuzieQNutter

Easy huh?

If you do not know dressage and your horse does not know dressage. It is exactly the same as you trying to teach a German person to speak Japanese and you do not speak Japanese or German. Plus the German person never said anything about wanting to learn Japanese.

Love this description, it really is that simple, and I always think my trainer is fluent in both languages and translates so we can understand each other.

[iberianfan]

This is excellent advice, but maybe there’s a little Japanese being spoken. “Proving” the inside rein = a slight release/give on the rein. The horse should stay connected on the outside rein.

I find a help with outside rein connection is the grab strap on the front of the saddle, if you have one. Place the outside hand on that strap to maintain a steady connection. You can then just flex and give with the inside rein. Hopefully, the outside leg and rein will teach the horse to stand up and not bulge out.

I also like doing quarter turns on the haunches in corners. It teaches the horse to wait for you and to balance through the corner. You might do this exercise a little inside the arena, away from the actual corner. If trotting, as you approach where you plan to turn, transition to walk, shorten the stride, do a quarter turn on the haunches from the outside rein and leg, keep inside leg to prevent falling in, and trot off in the new direction. This is just like the boxes and diamonds folks above are describing.

[SuzieQNutter]

Yes, the secret of dressage is being able to maintain that outside rein. If no grab strap to hold, think of keeping the outside shoulder and elbow where they should be.

[Scribbler]

The tricky thing about green horse and green rider is to use the outside rein without it asking for a turn to outside.

In a regular arena on the rail its not so much of an issue because the outside rein keeps the horse on the rail and the horse will turn to follow the arena walls.

That’s why the place to learn and test these is inside the arena. Riding small loops and circles with precision, not necessarily formal patterns but sending the horse exactly where you want. Also spiral in and out, and figure 8.

Turning off the outside rein IME is as much about turning off the seat as it is off the rein. That takes time to build.

[SillyHorse]

@Willesdon

I’m slightly curious about having open corners to allow entry. A dressage test always enters at a mid point of the short side. Corners are where one sets up the horse for the stuff that happens down the long side so riding a corner is an essential skill to work on. Moreover, they are corners rather than circles.

I just got home from observing some advanced training at a lovely farm in Wellington. All four corners of both dressage arenas were open, in addition to an opening at A. I probably wouldn’t have noticed if not for this thread and your comment.

[lorilu]

Using the outside rein is a balancing act. It is balanced by the inside rein, and balances the inside rein - both work together, but in different levels of “energy”. If you need to use more inside rein to get him over, reinforce it with your outside rein and outside thigh. In other words, don’t throw the outside rein away when you use the inside…
And dont worry about the “correct bend” at this point. Keep his neck pretty straight. You can even counterflex him to get him Off the outside shoulder…
Have you tried holding your whip on that outside shoulder, and using it to remind him 1. not to bulge (your thigh can help here also) and 2. respect the outside rein?
I have not read all the comments (Im sure they are great), so if it was not mentioned…
Be sure you are not:

1. using too much inside rein in the turn, which creates the bulging outside shoulder, and 2. looking too far inward, which shifts your weight just enough to push a shoulder out. Look down the long side to your destination.

And be sure you have slightly more weight on your inside seatbone - but too much, again, will push him out.

[CHT]

I would resolve it slightly differently. I would do a downward transition in the trouble corners.

Come down to a walk of you are trotting, a trot if you are cantering. My guess is your horse isn’t being “bad”, but rather getting worried about losing his balance in the upcoming turn because you haven’t been preparing him enough, and there isn’t enough a visual cue for him to do the prep work himself.

the idea of working a horse harder if he leaves the ring, so he prefers to be in the ring, means you are making his working life suck, and you want to show him it sucks less in a different spot. I don’t know why anyone would want to make a horse’s life unpleasant on purpose when under saddle. Please remember the corners are your responsibility, not his.