Stepping out of dressage ring

Yes they are. From the USEF Dressage rules:

DR109 The Changes of Direction

  1. At changes of direction, the horse should adjust the bend of his body to the curvature of the line it follows,
    remaining supple and following the indications of the rider, without any resistance or change of gait, rhythm,
    or speed. Corners should be ridden as one-quarter of a volte appropriate to the level of the test (10 meters at
    Training-First Levels, 8 meters at Second-Fourth Levels and 6 meters above Fourth Level).
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I feel like this is a ā€˜both / and’ problem in terms of obedience to the aids and teaching the horse that the place he thinks he wants to go isn’t actually where he wants to go.

Yes your horse needs to be obedient to the aids - particularly the outside reins. And if this sounded like a purely balance / straightness issue I’d leave it all at that. (but PP’s have articulated the ins/outs of teaching that much better then I could have so won’t repeat)

However, it sounds like your horse is also thinking that being outside the arena would be a lot nicer then inside the arena and so is evading those aids. So spending some time convincing your horse that that isn’t the case, will mean your horse spends more of their attention trying to learn / understand what the aids mean (since he sounds green…this is his focus right now) rather than actively working against you trying to accomplish his own goal of leaving the arena.

So I do think some of the Warwick Schiller approach would be helpful (he does a session with a dressage rider here on gate-sourness) as it’ll make the journey of teaching him obedience to the aids a bit less frustrating for both of you.

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When someone is describing how they ride a 20m circle, they are not. Voltes are not ā€œcirclesā€ in the way we are talking here in this thread. They even gave it a separate name, to avoid the word circle…

That is a good example if what was percolating in my mind initially when I made the post. I think perhaps there are ways to integrate this approach along with the other tips I’ve learned here. Thanks for sharing that video!

Please enlighten me as to the difference between a 10 meter volte and a 10 meter circle.

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I’m right with you. Just let me check my girth! :smiley:

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Sorry you are having problems with K, because your circle is not correct.

A volte is a 6, 8 or 10 metre circle and incidentally why Franz Mairinger said to not have a horse over 16.2hh as they cannot volte correctly with the length of their body.

A beginner horse does a corner as a quarter of a 20 metre circle. The more advanced the horse, the smaller the quarter of a circle and the horse goes deeper into the corners.

In a 60m arena the 20 metre circle hits A or C then 2 metres before the first letter on the side of the arena, then 2 metres over the SR or VP line. Then back to 2 metres after the first letter to the corner.

The middle circle goes from 2 metres inside the SR line hits E or B on the long side to inside the VP line and hits E or B on the long side.

So if you are doing a 20m circle at A or C, most horses are doing a corner smaller than a quarter of a 20 m circle, so you go into the corner towards A or C and you come inside the track left by the horse’s doing corners after A or C to start the 20 m circle or a 3 loop serpentine.

It is all mathematics. 6m from the short arena to the first letter. 12 metres between the other letters to make 60m. Half a circle is 10 metres, so your points are not on the letters. Know it. Study it. It will give you points for accuracy.

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My head is rotating trying to work out the details. But would you agree that not having boards - a visible marker - on the corners makes it harder to do circles as a beginner? 20m circles at E and B are always harder because the geometry is difficult to ā€˜see’. I would rather have corners in place and fewer boards on the long sides. But experienced riders on trained horses start to chop up the arena into ever tighter letters and geometry. Interesting about not having a horse over 16.2 given the recent WB obsession with height.

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When he said that he was probably talking about tbs. He brought dressage to Australia and was the coach of the Olympic eventing team I think, back then they were probably tbs with the long format.

Most instructors use witches hats on the four tangents of the circle.

On our arena hubby has cheated and sprayed paint on the rail 10m from the corner. He still has to see the 2m past SR and VP though.

Last year I took Stars to a club day. You ride a test and then the judge comes and talks to you and you ride the test again.

Her comment to me was someone has really taught you to ride circles. I laughed to myself and thought yes I teach others how to ride a circle.

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Which makes about as much sense to me as the recent obsession with trying to make ridden dressage champions out of heavy-harness horses built for pulling rather than riding. lol

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And ā€œlead with your belly button.ā€

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To mark my 20 meter circle points (and quarter line points), I put red tape around the pipe of my dressage arena and I put road whiskers (those little brushy things that are used to mark utility lines, etc.) at the appropriate points on the center line, including X. I find them very helpful in keeping me in the right place.

Why are the corners even open? That seems like you’re creating a difficulty that needn’t be present.

Please don’t punish him for making you ride him :wink: one of my short sides is wide open, I have cavaletti set end to end to help me with those two corners, but at ā€œAā€ it’s about 20 of nothing. So I ride By God from corner to corner, I use it to ride the quarterlines, etc. I ignore the gap and ride my horse.

OK, I have a question. If dressage is scored at least partly on the horse’s submission, why is this horse even having a problem submitting to his rider?
Is he green? Is his rider?
Should they be going back to basic communication skills and getting those sorted out before trying to make their circles round and their corners square and their movement forward? It seems to me that this horse needs a lot more ground work and giving him a reason to be submissive rather than trying to escape the arena every time he comes to a corner.
If the arena has the low curb ā€œenclosureā€ that I’ve been picturing from the OP, why wait 'til he gets to a corner? Why not just step over and out at any point?

The first post says the rider and horse are new to dressage, but not if either a green or beginner.

You can be a fairly competent rider without having good arena skills, and a horse can be wellbroke and still stiff, unbalanced, and developing evasions.

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As I understand it, a volte is a very small circle with limited steps and it is used to develop engagement and power. As it takes a lot of balance, it isn’t a movement used by lower level riders/horses. So a volte is a circle too, but not all circles are created equal.

In French, volte means turn. In English the borrowed term volte-face means to take an abrupt term in ideas or position.

So this is a translation issue. There is an English and a French term for doing a circle. So if it’s hunters we use English and dressage we use French :).

Lots of moves require a ā€œhalf volte.ā€

So a 10 meter circle and 10 meter volte are the same thing. You don’t ride it differently depending on the name you use.

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He is a bit green (but safe), and I have lots of riding experience, but not training a horse experience. I educate myself as much as possible and take lessons, but have not been able to resolve this particular problem. I should probably do more ground work with him so he listens more to my aids under saddle.

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I can’t change how the arena is set up since I am just a boarder.

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Got it.

I don’t personally find ground work to help much unless you’re super skilled.

What if you worked on riding serpentines, chevron, and spiraling circles? Halt at M, K, H, F then walk on with purpose so he’s more sort of inhand when you get to the corner.

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