No one enters the Belmont to ‘fill the card.’ Sometimes the rationale is we might not win but have a good shot at being in the money.
and no owner or trainer worth their salt would want to win the TC in a walkover.
[QUOTE=Windsor1;7620245]
No it’s not! Clement entered Tonalist because he is a bad sport. And a BIG MEANIE. Behind closed doors he’s been slowly rubbing his hands together and laughing maniacally (mwahahahahaha) to himself for weeks thinking of all the dreams Tonalist’s win would destroy.
He celebrated by taking candy from babies.[/QUOTE]
LOL. I quit banging my head against the brick wall on FB with this being the attitude of some of my “friends”.
[QUOTE=Windsor1;7620245]
No it’s not! Clement entered Tonalist because he is a bad sport. And a BIG MEANIE. Behind closed doors he’s been slowly rubbing his hands together and laughing maniacally (mwahahahahaha) to himself for weeks thinking of all the dreams Tonalist’s win would destroy.
He celebrated by taking candy from babies.[/QUOTE]
You don’t even want to know what he does with kittens…LOL!
I usually welcome newbies to the Racing Forum, but when they sport such outrageous statements that we’re tolerating because they don’t know any better about racing - it grinds my spacerocks. Learn, people, learn, before you post. Racing, like other sports on this forum, has a history and rules all its’ own.
The only poor sport on Belmont Day was Steve Coburn…all because he doesn’t yet understand the sport that is giving him big paychecks. He needed to think - the rules were the same for him as everyone else, and that’s the way it has been since the Triple Crown was identified as united races by Charles Hatton in the 1930s.
But, each race is its’ own entity. They are not connected by anything except tradition. You can choose to enter one if you qualify or go for all three. But no one is holding cat barf over your head to have to do all three or just one. Whatever is right for the horse is the best thing. Tonalist wasn’t ready for ‘serious’ racing until the Peter Pan, then the Belmont. He wasn’t entered in the Belmont to ‘ruin’ racing and the Triple Crown.
ARGHHHHH!
Hallie McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7619812]
I will be glad when people who don’t know anything about racing go away until next May.[/QUOTE]
AMEN
More fun facts. The following are the near misses (except for Pensive because I gave up looking for his Preakness chart; will update later), not counting the 3 who didn’t start in the Belmont (Burgoo King, Bold Venture, and I’ll Have Another).
1958 - Tim Tam (2nd)
Total runners - 8
New shooters - 4
Skipped one of three - 1
Ran in all three - 2
1961 - Carry Back (7th)
Total runners - 9
New shooters - 2
Skipped one of three - 3
Ran in all three - 3
1964 - Northern Dancer (3rd)
Total runners - 8
New shooters - 4
Skipped one of three - 0
Ran in all three - 3
1966 - Kauai King (4th)
Total runners - 11
New shooters - 5
Skipped one of three - 1
Ran in all three - 4
1969 - Majestic Prince (2nd)
Total runners - 6
New shooters - 3
Skipped one of three - 1
Ran in all three - 1
1971 - Canonero II (4th)
Total runners - 13
New shooters - 8
Skipped one of three - 2
Ran in all three - 2
1979 - Spectacular Bid (3rd)
Total runners - 8
New shooters - 3
Skipped one of three - 1
Ran in all three - 3
1981 - Pleasant Colony (3rd)
Total runners - 11
New shooters - 3
Skipped one of three - 5
Ran in all three - 2
1987 - Alysheba (4th)
Total runners - 9
New shooters - 2
Skipped one of three - 2
Ran in all three - 4
1989 - Sunday Silence (2nd)
Total runners - 10
New shooters - 3
Skipped one of three - 4
Ran in all three - 2
1997 - Silver Charm (2nd)
Total runners - 7
New shooters - 3
Skipped one of three - 2
Ran in all three - 1
1998 - Real Quiet (2nd)
Total runners - 11
New shooters - 5
Skipped one of three - 3
Ran in all three - 2
1999 - Charismatic (3rd)
Total runners - 12
New shooters - 6
Skipped one of three - 2
Ran in all three - 3
2002 - War Emblem (8th)
Total runners - 11
New shooters - 5
Skipped one of three - 3
Ran in all three - 2
2003 - Funny Cide (3rd)
Total runners - 6
New shooters - 2
Skipped one of three - 2
Ran in all three - 1
2004 - Smarty Jones (2nd)
Total runners - 9
New shooters - 4
Skipped one of three - 4
Ran in all three - 0
2008 - Big Brown (DNF)
Total runners - 9
New shooters - 3
Skipped one of three - 5
Ran in all three - 0
2014 - California Chrome (4th, DH)
Total runners - 11
New shooters - 4
Skipped one of three - 4
Ran in all three - 2
Thanks for that harvestmoon – interesting.
As has been pointed out before, if the Preakness and Belmont Stakes entries are limited to horses that ran in the Derby, the inevitable result will be walkover, match-race, or three-horse-field conditions in the Belmont Stakes. Year. After year. After year. Whether there’s a Triple Crown on the line or not.
If that’s okay with you, if you don’t mind seeing one of the sport’s most important and historically significant races (and the Triple Crown itself) cheapened in that way, you don’t deserve to see another Triple Crown winner.
[QUOTE=Zuri;7613223]
I hope California Chrome will keep racing. I was disappointed in some of Steve Coburn’s comments, especially the cowardly comments. He may have had a point, but there is a time and place for them. He could have prefaced his comments with something congratulatory for the winner and thus given his self edited comments (leaving out cowardly) more merit.[/QUOTE]
He didn’t have a point. drdmv1 is right:
The 1st and 2nd in today’s Belmont ran 1st and 2nd in the Peter Pan Stakes.
The Peter Pan is a traditional prep race for the Belmont.
AP Indy, Coastal, Danzig Connection, Cavan are several horses off the top of my head that won the Peter Pan and then went on to win the Belmont. There have been loads of others that either won or placed in the Peter Pan and then placed in the Belmont.
The Peter Pan is a traditional prep for the Belmont.
You guys seem to have absolutely no sense of history about horse racing.
[QUOTE=wildlifer;7614152]
I just wanted to write down a couple of thoughts:
(1) There is a reason the Belmont Stakes has been referred to as “the Graveyard of Champions.” 1.5 miles is a LONG, TOUGH race. Many a classy, promising horse and strutting owner have come only to be duly humbled. It’s ALWAYS been that way.
(2) After Citation won the Triple Crown, it was 25 years until Secreatariat came along. So…aside from the clump of 3 in the 70’s, it doesnt’ exactly rain TC horses on a regular basis.
(3) Dude, it’s horses. They are giant walking suicide machines of heartbreak. You must not have owned them very long if you have not figured that out yet. And it’s not like you don’t know what you will have to deal with if you have a TC hopeful. It’s hardly, “Surprise!!! Media will stalk you!! And they will try to provoke you!!” That’s like jumping into a pool and being shocked that you got wet. 
(4) Due to fact (3) every equine sport is familiar with “almost.” In eventing, a rider forgets their stadium course at the Olympics or doesn’t pass the jog after XC at Badminton. In dressage, the horse spooks at the TV during the Grand Prix. In reining, the rider loses count and does one too many spins. In…horse world, horse blows abscess the night before an event in which non-refundable $$$$ has already been spent. The riders/owners/trainers we respect swallow their ego (it’s not like the Olympics has no media), and know there is nothing they can do except try again another day and be grateful if they don’t have to go home with an empty trailer.
My older horse (eventer) HATED dressage. I am generally a very good sport, have spent my life around horses, I know the odds. There were times where I would leave the dressage ring stomping in fury, tears in my eyes, glaring at my horse. But I never blamed the judge or the sport or the competition – someone always has more money, more luck, more horses, more time, blah blah blah. If I’m not happy with the results, that’s on ME and it’s no different at any level. If you don’t like the number or type of variables, go do something else.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely!
Didn’t someone comment a few pages back that the Belmont would lose its Grade 1 status if it restricted the field to horses that only ran in the Derby and Preakness?
The American Graded Stakes Committee uses as some of its criteria for the grading:
Purse Requirement: That the race has a purse of more than $75,000.
Longevity: That the race has been run for two years under the same conditions.
Drug Testing: That post race drug testing is managed by a governmental authority.
Restrictions: That the race may be restricted only in age and gender.
Anabolic Steroid Testing : Only Boldenone, Nandrolone, Stanozolol, and Testosterone are allowed to be used.
Toe Grabs: Cannot be more than two millimeters long.
In the United States and Canada, a graded race can be dormant for one year without losing its grade.
As long as the race meets these requirements, the Committee grades on the overall quality of the previous fields and the performance of horses in the previous fields in stakes both prior to and after the race. For example: if the winner of the Breeders’ Cup Classic raced in the Santa Anita Handicap then the race would almost certainly be a Grade One.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7619812]
I will be glad when people who don’t know anything about racing go away until next May.[/QUOTE]
That’s quite rude. And posters were criticizing Mr. Coburn? Some need to look in the mirror. I never proclaimed to be well versed in Racing, but stated an opinion and you don’t agree. So?
Obviously, you are a pro (Sarcasm). How many horses have you owned or trained that were winners in a major stakes race?
She has a whole lot more experience then probably anyone else here. And she is completely right. If you don’t understand how racing works, how races work, the importance of history, and can’t understand that your horse lost probably because he wasn’t good enough, then you would probably be better served to listen and learn.
For what it’s worth, Halter Alter, as strongly as I disagreed with your opinion that the Belmont Stakes should be restricted to Derby and Preakness runners, at least you stopped short of making the accusatory remarks that sporthorsefilly did.
It’s one thing to say you think the conditions are unfair. It’s another thing entirely to accuse good people of skipping the Derby and Preakness out of cowardice and running in the Belmont with malicious intent “to destroy the Triple Crown.” Maligning people whose motives and circumstances you know nothing about merely because your horse lost is not only ignorant, it’s offensive.
This made me actually laugh out loud… Love, Love, Love this:
"You know what’s really unfair? The fact I had to miss the Derby and the Preakness, that’s what. Ever since I was a yearling all I’ve wanted to do was win the Kentucky Derby. I hear you get carrots delivered to you anytime you want for the rest of your life…is that true? Can someone please confirm this for me?"
[QUOTE=Sparrowette;7621553]
This made me actually laugh out loud… Love, Love, Love this:
"You know what’s really unfair? The fact I had to miss the Derby and the Preakness, that’s what. Ever since I was a yearling all I’ve wanted to do was win the Kentucky Derby. I hear you get carrots delivered to you anytime you want for the rest of your life…is that true? Can someone please confirm this for me?"[/QUOTE]
Someone needs to make a Youtube video that’s just a picture of Tonalist in his stall on Derby day, and that “How Could This Happen to Me?” song playing in the background.
I don’t begrudge Tonalist for winning the Belmont…like others have said, the Belmont is it’s own race with a nice purse, and he was the better horse that day. Would CC have done it if not for the gate injury? We’ll never know. I think CC and Tonalist are both nice horses and I hope both have long, safe, and successful careers.
[QUOTE=Halter Alter;7621325]
That’s quite rude. And posters were criticizing Mr. Coburn? Some need to look in the mirror. I never proclaimed to be well versed in Racing, but stated an opinion and you don’t agree. So?
Obviously, you are a pro (Sarcasm). How many horses have you owned or trained that were winners in a major stakes race?[/QUOTE]
Laurie is a long time trainer who understands the sport inside and out. She knows her stuff. You’d be surprised how many people on this board are trainers, owners, breeders, grooms, exercise riders, hotwalkers, track officials, TB photographers, etc. I’m an owner, breeder, former exercise rider and groom (and long ago a really bad QH jockey).
Hallie
[QUOTE=Halter Alter;7621325]
That’s quite rude. And posters were criticizing Mr. Coburn? Some need to look in the mirror. I never proclaimed to be well versed in Racing, but stated an opinion and you don’t agree. So?
Obviously, you are a pro (Sarcasm). How many horses have you owned or trained that were winners in a major stakes race?[/QUOTE]
Now that you’ve probably read some of the other posts, I’d like to add, that I think you owe laurierace an apology.
What I like about the CoTH boards here is that this is not an “I love my pretty horsie!” type of place. Most of the people I see here know their stuff, so generally, when answering a post where someone needs to know that my opinion may not be as good as someone else’s, I try to ID myself as a greenie. And I try to show respect to those whom I know are better informed than me.
I think we should start a petition to just get rid of the Preakness and Belmont altogether and rename the Derby “The Triple Crown”, that way whatever horse wins the Derby wins The Triple Crown.
A little perspective. Do those of you who want to restrict the Belmont Stakes want to do the same thing with golf? With cycling? With the Triple Gold Club in hockey? I’m sure there are other important triple crowns which are analogous to horse racing, where each competition is a feat independent of the others and not restricted to the players or competitors who participated in the first event. Please do correct me if I have erred – I am not a fan in these other sports and was just doing a quick search. I’m sure there are important triple crowns in other sports as well.
Triple Crown of Golf, refers to two different trios:
British Open, U.S. Open, and South African Open
British Open, U.S. Open, and Canadian Open
In addition, local (national) Triple Crowns are, in Australia:
Australian Open, Australian Masters, and Australian PGA Championship.
in South Africa:
South African Open, South African Masters, South African PGA Championship
Triple Crown of Cycling:
the Tour de France, the Giro d’Italia, and the Road World Cycling Championship
Triple Gold Club in hockey:
The Triple Gold Club consists of players and coaches who have won an Olympic Games gold medal, a World Championship gold medal, and the Stanley Cup
