Steve Coburn's comments after losing the Belmont

[QUOTE=Toadie’s mom;7614040]
I’m really disappointed that Coburn didn’t come out this morning and apologize for his comments made “in the heat of the moment”. That would have meant SOMETHING![/QUOTE]

The press deliberately got to him at a moment of intense sadness. So he shot his mouth off Now…
That’s his story and he’s sticking to it!!!

Even on a national TV show.

He’s a little guy from nowhere catapulted onto front line news. No PR to run interference, and no mileage in the horse world. The press got what they wanted. They won!!

He still part owns a horse, California Chrome, with more class than he.

and this am the media tried repeatedly to get Art to criticize Coburn… he didn’t bite. Controversy sells.

http://www.hrtv.com/videos/art-sherman-press-conference-6814/?VideoCategoryId=0

[QUOTE=re-runs;7614086]
Man O`War was sick at Derby time and that is the reason he did not run otherwise, I am sure he would have won.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure? I always heard that Samuel Riddle didn’t run him because he thought early May was too soon to ask a three-year-old to go 1 1/4 miles. I also read that he changed his mind for War Admiral’s Triple Crown run.

That’s what I heard as well.
Changed his tune for War Admiral tho.

[QUOTE=Dewey;7614128]
Are you sure? I always heard that Samuel Riddle didn’t run him because he thought early May was too soon to ask a three-year-old to go 1 1/4 miles. I also read that he changed his mind for War Admiral’s Triple Crown run.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Noms;7614066]
Nonsense.[/QUOTE]

Watch Touch Gold’s Preakness sometime where he also grabbed a quarter (he was 4th to Silver Charm). Amazing race.

I just wanted to write down a couple of thoughts:

(1) There is a reason the Belmont Stakes has been referred to as “the Graveyard of Champions.” 1.5 miles is a LONG, TOUGH race. Many a classy, promising horse and strutting owner have come only to be duly humbled. It’s ALWAYS been that way.

(2) After Citation won the Triple Crown, it was 25 years until Secreatariat came along. So…aside from the clump of 3 in the 70’s, it doesnt’ exactly rain TC horses on a regular basis.

(3) Dude, it’s horses. They are giant walking suicide machines of heartbreak. You must not have owned them very long if you have not figured that out yet. And it’s not like you don’t know what you will have to deal with if you have a TC hopeful. It’s hardly, “Surprise!!! Media will stalk you!! And they will try to provoke you!!” That’s like jumping into a pool and being shocked that you got wet. :confused:

(4) Due to fact (3) every equine sport is familiar with “almost.” In eventing, a rider forgets their stadium course at the Olympics or doesn’t pass the jog after XC at Badminton. In dressage, the horse spooks at the TV during the Grand Prix. In reining, the rider loses count and does one too many spins. In…horse world, horse blows abscess the night before an event in which non-refundable $$$$ has already been spent. The riders/owners/trainers we respect swallow their ego (it’s not like the Olympics has no media), and know there is nothing they can do except try again another day and be grateful if they don’t have to go home with an empty trailer.

My older horse (eventer) HATED dressage. I am generally a very good sport, have spent my life around horses, I know the odds. There were times where I would leave the dressage ring stomping in fury, tears in my eyes, glaring at my horse. But I never blamed the judge or the sport or the competition – someone always has more money, more luck, more horses, more time, blah blah blah. If I’m not happy with the results, that’s on ME and it’s no different at any level. If you don’t like the number or type of variables, go do something else.

[QUOTE=Mardi;7613897]
He’s offended no one.[/QUOTE]

Really? He offended me with his childish rant, and I am sure the connections of the other horses are offended as well.

And I am absolutely appalled by his churlish behavior toward his wife. SHE knew he was making an A** of himself and tried to get him quieted down, but instead of taking a hint, he snapped at her - in public, on nationwide television - showing that he has a bully streak in him, too.

As though his performance yesterday wasn’t enough to prove what an ill-mannered jerk he is, he continued running his mouth today.

Yep, he can wear that DUMBASS logo proudly.

Everyone has made good points, this is a debate that will be going on into the future (leveling the field v. watering down the challenge).

On Coburn, I cut him slack on being unprepared for this kind of spotlight, but he knew the rules going in, and by entering his horse, agreed to play by them.

On rules changes, I would disagree with watering down the field, but would like to see the field size reduced. It could elevate the level of competition, while reducing the odds of stupid bad luck preventing the best horse from winning. Curious what the average number of entries is for stakes races?

And on Secretariat’s Belmont, was the field size so small because few thought they had a chance to beat him? Can’t recall the history there. Clearly a whole lot of people thought their horse had a chance to beat CC, and 3 of them did.

Tonalist looked fabulous. Beautiful horse, and makes me pleased to see the distance breeding rewarded.

[QUOTE=RainyDayRide;7614120]
and this am the media tried repeatedly to get Art to criticize Coburn… he didn’t bite. Controversy sells.

http://www.hrtv.com/videos/art-sherman-press-conference-6814/?VideoCategoryId=0[/QUOTE]

Thank you for posting this link. I watched a couple of other videos that were linked there as well. Apparently, Romans and Maker had words prior to the race because General A Rod was late to the saddling area due to one of the security guards and Romans felt that was an unfair advantage. Obviously, emotions were running high for many people.

I am very shocked that California Chrome’s owner had the audacity to make such comments like that on national television. In a way, suggesting that you have to have run in the two previous races in order to run in the Belmont makes him seem just the tiniest bit ignorant. Anyone who is in the horse racing industry or is familiar with it knows that the races are independent- they are not literally a three race series. So being that you are an owner- no matter how relatively new, wouldn’t you know that the Triple Crown is just a coined calling by a journalist to describe the 3 races or even that the races are three separate races?

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11051680&ex_cid=espnapi_affiliate_abcotv

As for saying that horses should run in all 3, here is a link to an interview with Nick Zito and he brings up a valid point about what would be an incentive for horses to run in all three.

Edit- I have several other points to make, but this is not the post for it and would thus be off topic.

There is talk in Maryland of pushing back the Preakness a couple of weeks. As I understand it, the organization of that race is completely in the hands of Pimlico and Maryland’s Jockey Club. If the Preakness were pushed back, NYRA would have really no choice but to push back the Belmont as well.

The races could continue to be at their same respective distances. The time intervale between them would then be a month apart.

Would that really be such a violation of the holy order of things?

It would diminish the value of skipping the first, or first 2, races if the interval were a bit longer, but would it really cheapen the accomplishment of winning all three?

I don’t see it.

The modern time interval between races and length of each race have been the same since 1931, but there were great variations in the order and the length of the races in the decades before that, including years in which the Preakness preceded the Derby, and the Belmont preceded the Preakness (Quel horreur!).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmont_Stakes#Evolution_of_the_Triple_Crown_series

So, change has in fact happened, and catastrophe didn’t ensue.

Therefore, squalling “but it should never change – change is terrible – oh my god you hate amurrica and horses if you want it to change” is not in fact an argument. There has been change in this race series, just not for 80 years.

Increasing the amount of time between the races would have a desirable effect (reducing the advantage of horses who hadn’t raced in prior Triple Crown races) without changing the specific challenge set by each race, or trying to inscribe restrictions on the entire set of races.

What’s not to like? It seems like a sensible and moderate improvement to me.

(going away to let the shrieking and whinging start)

[QUOTE=Dewey;7614128]
Are you sure? I always heard that Samuel Riddle didn’t run him because he thought early May was too soon to ask a three-year-old to go 1 1/4 miles. I also read that he changed his mind for War Admiral’s Triple Crown run.[/QUOTE]

Correct as shared with me by his great-nephew.

[QUOTE=Lori B;7614199]
There is talk in Maryland of pushing back the Preakness a couple of weeks. As I understand it, the organization of that race is completely in the hands of Pimlico and Maryland’s Jockey Club. If the Preakness were pushed back, NYRA would have really no choice but to push back the Belmont as well.

The races could continue to be at their same respective distances. The time intervale between them would then be a month apart.

Would that really be such a violation of the holy order of things?

It would diminish the value of skipping the first, or first 2, races if the interval were a bit longer, but would it really cheapen the accomplishment of winning all three?

I don’t see it.

The modern time interval between races and length of each race have been the same since 1931, but there were great variations in the order and the length of the races in the decades before that, including years in which the Preakness preceded the Derby, and the Belmont preceded the Preakness (Quel horreur!).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmont_Stakes#Evolution_of_the_Triple_Crown_series

So, change has in fact happened, and catastrophe didn’t ensue.

Therefore, squalling “but it should never change – change is terrible – oh my god you hate amurrica and horses if you want it to change” is not in fact an argument. There has been change in this race series, just not for 80 years.

Increasing the amount of time between the races would have a desirable effect (reducing the advantage of horses who hadn’t raced in prior Triple Crown races) without changing the specific challenge set by each race, or trying to inscribe restrictions on the entire set of races.

What’s not to like? It seems like a sensible and moderate improvement to me.

(going away to let the shrieking and whinging start)[/QUOTE]

IMO, then all subsequent winners, if any, of the revised schedule would have to have asterisks to explain that the series had been made easier. If the schedule has been the same for 83 years and all of the previous TC winners since 1931 have been able to cope with that schedule, what’s wrong with modern horses that they can’t? If anything, the current schedule ought to be an incentive to breed and train horses who won’t die with 3 races in five weeks. Certainly the gap of twenty five years between Secretariat and Assault means that the schedule was just as hard for the elders as it is for the current crops. But then came the magic of the 70s and the difficulty got forgotten.

If it wasn’t broken in the past, it ain’t broken now and doesn’t need fixing.

It’s tough to win all three, in any order. Since '79 5 have lost the Derby and won the last two. Others lost the Preakness and won the other two. Yes, the time frame is tough and I don’t advocate changing it, but thinking it through, how many trainers could pick any three races in advance and win all three with the same horse? There are a whole lot of variables. The only constant is the need for racing luck.

Dude, it’s horses. They are giant walking suicide machines of heartbreak.

Wildlifer - love this!!! Can I use it as a tag line (if I figure out how to do it)!

:lol:

Are we going to add asterisks for when the metal in shoes changes, or for the invention of antibiotics? How about track surface changes?

I think the idea that such a change would ‘require an asterisk in the record books’ is another way of saying that you think such a change would make the Triple Crown substantially easier to win, so much so that wins after the rule change are somehow cheaper than those before. Sorry, still don’t I don’t buy it.

I don’t think that increasing the time interval makes the Triple Crown much easier to do, but it makes it harder for spoilers to have a particular advantage in any single race.

Personally I don’t have any issue with increasing the time between the races. I’m not sure it would make it that much easier–you might have more horses continuing on in the series after the Derby, and it would also give more time for the late bloomers to enter the scene. But I’m not sure how feasible it is. If you ran the Belmont in late June you could get some pretty nasty temperatures.

Average high temperature in Elmont NY on June 7: 77 degrees

Average high temperature in Elmont NY on June 30: 83 degrees.

Warmer, but not that much, going by the averages.

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/daily/USNY0464

How many horses were in the Belmont the last few times we had a TC winner?

Why exactly is it so hard to accept that a horse with no distance breeding didn’t win a distance race??? I never thought he’d win it. NEVER. I’d have had a heart attack if he had. Yes, I’d have been happy for a TC winner, and yes I was rooting for him to win, but I didn’t actually think he was going to outrace his pedigree.

I guess more importantly in my mind is why are we talking about changing something that isn’t broken? It’s not a “series” of races. It’s three separate races, with a title given to the winner of the three. And I think that moving the dates or changing the current (non-existent) qualifying rules is ridiculous. If we never see another “triple crown” winner, so be it. Just means the horses weren’t good (or lucky) enough. But if we do see another, man, what a horse that’ll be!

As for Coburn, I really wanted to give him a bye, but no can do. I don’t care what his personal opinion is at this point (not that I actually cared before either), but after that rant and boorish dismissal of his wife ON NATIONAL TELEVISION, I hope he never has another runner make it out of the starting gate. (though I do hope Art Sherman gets another chance before he retires - that man is a class act!)

(Oh, and when the races were run in a different order, were they run 4 weeks apart? I thought they were still run within a very short time frame?)

(Another Oh - there are so many Derby entries because that is the dream race everyone wants to try to do. Even Tonalist was nominated, though he didn’t run. It’s not your average Stakes race, which, in reality the other two are)