Sticky youngster under saddle

[sillyhorse100]

Hi, alter here. I don’t know if I’m looking for ideas or encouragement. I have a nice young horse I’ve had for about a year and started under saddle this spring when she turned 4. I have limited experience starting horses but am working with a trainer and am a competent rider, at least according to my coaches and previous horses.

This is a sensitive but very sweet mare. She is very chilled out on the ground. Because of a number of things, I didn’t get to ride her as much as I wanted to this spring so we’re just now 'getting serious." We had a couple of great rides walk and trot in the spring, and then she started to be sticky under saddle. I did fall off of her once. I thinik she was growing againi at this point and might have been feeling unbalanced. Her teeth were done at the beginning of the summer and she has all her teeth and shed all her baby teeth. Her movement has really changed for the better over the summer. On the longe line and the long lines she is nicely forward. I changed her saddle and had her fitted by my fitter.

She is very behinid the leg in the walk trot transition, in the trot, and will slam on the brakes in the trot. Ii can’t get over her shoulder at all or she will stop. She does know what I want from her. II had a good lesson with my trainer last week with her where we got more forward in the trot and we had some really good transitions. I have been riding her with mostly seat and leg because she is very light in the mouth. The next day, she was back to being sticky.

Will it always be like this? LOL. I guess I am feeling behiind because this is maybe my tenth ride on my horse and it seems like everybody walks trots and canters on their young horse by their thiird ride. I’m also worried that I’m ruining her willingness to work if she doesn’t have a good time in the training and know better than to start a fight in the traininig. I hate feeling like she is frustrated. I try to keep sessions less than 30 mins and finish as soon as I get a positive response.

[DMK]

Honestly there are so many things that can be going on with a baby that the best idea might be to get someone with a lot of quality experience starting youngsters to sit in her for a half dozen rides and give you some feedback.

It does sound like when you get too forward she loses confidence. If that because she’s just unsure about balance? Had she learned that from earlier and now it’s kind of working for a lazy horse? Does she have genuine discomfort? Is it something else? If it a combination of some/all of the above. Nobody reading this is going to know for sure so any advice is limited in value…

With older, trained horses you can FAFO while you sort through possible explanations for a behavior and not do any damage to their training if you are a decent rider, but with a youngster you need to be more right than wrong every ride!

[Heinz_57]

@sillyhorse100

Will it always be like this? LOL. I guess I am feeling behiind because this is maybe my tenth ride on my horse and it seems like everybody walks trots and canters on their young horse by their thiird ride.

No, it will not always be this way and no, most horses are not cantering by the third ride.

There are so many different paths and methods when starting horses under saddle. Each horse is different. Do not feel like you are behind. Do not rush because you feel like you are behind. Do not pick fights. At 10 rides, the horse is still figuring out how to balance with the extra weight of a rider and needs to develop enough strength to compensate for your movements. My now 8yo did the same thing at 4 - even very small posting was too much for him to handle.

What does your trainer suggest?

[outerbanks77]

Woo boy, your tenth ride is nothing!

I am just starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel with my seven year old, who I also started at four. What does your mare do when she stops? How do you approach it? How is she on the lunge, and have you had your trainer lunge her while you just sit there as a passenger.

There has been no magic bullet for us but it’s been a combo of some fairly aggressive riding at times, doing lots of bodywork and kinesio taping, changing her to a PSSM diet, long warmups and hacking around the pastures, and cross training with some jumping. Most recently when she was stopping on me I would have my side reins ready and get off and lunge until she was forward, and then get back on.

[sillyhorse100]

Thank you for this, this is very helpful. I think this is one of those things where social media is makiing my a bit insecure and need to remember people only share the good thiings.

Deep down I think she is just very sensitive and is finding it hard to balance. And I know she is not that strong. But it’s hard not to go down the wormhole of worrying about everything.

My trainer has lunged her with me on a few times like @outerbanks77 is suggesting to varying degrees of success. I will admiit i get very nervous beinig lunged by someone else even if it is my trainier who II do trust. On the longe she is great for me but not so much for my trainer all the time. Our last lesson was off the lunge and we were able to do some trot figure 8s in rising trot. Ii try to sit her trot until she gets forward and I think this has helped a bit.

When she stops she goes inverted and will sometimes bounce up and down in front. When she’s gotten really frustrated she spins. I encourage her with my voice and leg. I carry a stick and tap her. She is the type to get very offended if I were to smack her with it.

[SuzieQNutter]

@sillyhorse100

When she stops she goes inverted and will sometimes bounce up and down in front. When she’s gotten really frustrated she spins. I encourage her with my voice and leg. I carry a stick and tap her. She is the type to get very offended if I were to smack her with it.

I am not there, so my advice is worth what you are paying for it.

As long as the horse is not in pain.

This does not sound like a naughty horse. This sounds like a horse who does not understand. A horse who does not understand bucks, rears, spins and bolts, not a horse who is being naughty.

You are taking a being who does not and who will not ever learn to speak English. She does not understand what you want or why.

You have tried to progress too fast. Things need to be broken down for her. First teach her that she is a good girl and that praise is a good thing. Let go of the reins and don’t try to ride with contact until you have forward with calmness. Think of the training scale. Don’t skip ahead.

Make every part of the ride easy and fun. You want to teach her that she wants to be with you and not dreading you coming to get her. Yes anamorphic language, however horses do wait at the gate daily for you if you ride daily and that are happy to be ridden and work their heart out for you. Incorrect training and you will have a sulky horse you have to go and catch.

Yes to being lunged on her. Yes to lunging correctly in side reins, if you have been correctly taught to lunge in side reins. Yes to following another horse while riding.

Ingrid Klimke lunges every second day only with her young horses. It allows them to find their own rhythm and balance and you already know as you stated that she needs constant work. 20 minutes a day rather than sporadic training, so as she can create the correct muscles.

[sillyhorse100]

She does understand the trot aid. On the longe and under saddle, through my voice and leg. She works on the longe in side reins and on the long lines doing figures and poles a few times a week. She has correct balance in all three gaits and the connection with the liines is gettinig better. I have just started substituting one or two of those days with riding.

[endlessclimb]

She’s 4 and barely started. Can you hack out for awhile, get her following someone so forward makes a little more sense? Arena work at a minimum for now. Lots of walking and trotting around fields and stuff for now.

[SuzieQNutter]

Being able to work in frame on the lunge does not correlate to riding in frame while being ridden. Especially if sporadic retraining so the muscle is not there.

You are not just asking her to trot a circle, it is like me asking you to run in a circle with bringing your knees up to your shoulders. Now do it again with me on your back.

It is not me you have to convince. This is a conversation between you and your horse. Just remember she does not know what or why or what trained horses you have ridden know. She will get there, just go at her rate of understanding. Horses learn fast, much faster than riders. You want her to learn the correct way first, as it is much easier to train than retrain. Just think of her stopping and getting light in front as not able to do yet and the answer is not to yell louder.

A French man will not understand English if you yell English louder.

If she does understand that brings you back to pain.

[EventerAJ]

Something I instill in my baby horses is Forward Is Always A Good Answer. I do generally canter by the third or fourth ride, but with low expectations. I try to get out of the round pen as soon as possible, as I find youngsters struggle to balance and go forward in such a small space. When I have semi reliable stop and steer, and they’ve cantered with me on board, I go out to a 2 acre paddock and just trot forward laps for five to ten minutes. It builds up strength and balance, and the longer straight aways is easier than turning 20m circles in an arena or round pen. If I have one reluctant to move, it often helps to have a buddy horse ridden along as a lead (or pony). As the young horse learns its job (go forth and be merry), builds strength and gains confidence under the rider, everything gets easier.

[luvmyhackney]

Have you checked her saddle is fitted to her liking? Try adding a sheepskin pad, make sure nothing is pinching, etc? My 5 y/o got sticky when his saddle got snug and needed an adjustment. Feet checked out?
It sounds like she goes but them something bothers her and she reacts to whatever is bothering her especially if light in front and spins. She’s avoiding something.

Follow the leader and getting out the ring are great suggestions above.

[Cowgirl]

Stopping or being sticky is super common with young horses. My 5 year old (about a year under saddle) is just now getting enough balance in canter to canter a 20 meter circle without dropping out of canter. He just started going on the bit the last few months. He has huge gaits and it took a while to find his balance. One thing that has really helped me to “unstick” him is to start every ride with ground work. Prior to mounting, I ask him to turn on the forehand (at first it was a step, and back, and step and back–to keep him from stringing himself out and learn to stay on his hind legs), turn on the haunch, rein back, leg yield, pick up his feet to a tap. When they get stuck, if you can move the shoulder or the haunch and use that groundwork, you give them a ton of praise when they unstick to build confidence. To “unstick” you need to move the feet, however you can. I believe some of this is due to lack of confidence and some is due to lack of balance. If you can get a ground person to help you, perhaps they can step in and do the groundwork with you on the back to unstick them and give lots of praise. Eventually, they give the stuff up unless they are rewarded for the sticky part–you do have to keep some pressure on and unstick them–even if you have to get off and lunge.

My last horse (trained to grand prix) was such a horrible spook and bolter when she was young, that I couldn’t show her until she was 7. She outgrew it and became very confident at shows. Despite what you see in young horse tests, etc., most horses take longer to mature. It is important to give them each whatever time they need.

[Dr_Doolittle]

Excellent, spot on post.

[sillyhorse100]

Unfortunately where I live there’s no big fields and to trail ride I have to trailer out and our traiils are very rocky. Fiinding a buddy to go with me even harder. If I could I would do this already.

@luvmyhackney Her saddle was fitted recently with a sheepskin pad. They change so much and I can’t have my fitter out every other week, so we’re making do with shiims.

[Cowgirl]

One other bit of encouragement I can give you: it may seem like “Groundhog’s Day” for a while (or a long time) where you are giving the same lesson forever and the horse just isn’t seeming to get it. Guess what, that is the same in every other species!!! Repetition and reward is the way to go and it will eventually pay off!!! Never EVER try to force it: it’s not your calendar. Force + the Immoveable Object = Splat

[VodkaRedbullx2]

You are asking way too much.
She doesnt know her abc’s yet and you are quizzing her on the alphabet and she is a smart lady and mad when she doesnt know how to answer correctly.

30 minutes is long.
Babies. Teach one thing in 15 min and get off. Groundwork can be 20 to 30 min.
And cookies, lots of cookies.

[stryder]

I read your OP to mean she slows or stops when she feels you get out of balance or lean forward. This is not a bad thing. Take your time, encourage her to walk on, and walk on some more. Quit thinking about what other people are doing.

[WildGooseChase]

When it comes to young horses, I never discourage forward motion. Redirect if necessary, but it’s a last resort to shut it down.

Here’s a few ideas to think on and brainstorm with your trainer, assuming pain is not an issue:

1. Ride on one rein. Don’t pick up both at the same time. You can still get a very good halt on one rein. Teach the one rein stop as a “emergency brake.”

2. Cruise. Walk when I say walk, trot when I say trot, canter when I say canter. Start with the walk and do not move on until you have a good walk. It should be somewhat rhythmic, consistent, and you should be able to cue and get it every time.

3. Start soft with your cues, then move up in intensity if necessary.

4. Release is key! Horses don’t learn from pressure alone. They learn from release. If your timing isn’t good, you’re teaching them the wrong thing.

5. Shorten your sessions. 30 minutes is too long right now. 15-20 should be your maximum for a while. Shorter, but more frequent sessions will get you much further. 15-20 minutes 4-5 days a week is plenty, make sure you give days off, and stagger the riding between groundwork.

6. I am not a fan of food incentives. A good rub or scratch goes a long way, but please for the love of all things holy, please do not smack or pat your horse! They don’t understand it nearly as well as a good scratch or rub. My horse is addicted to being scratched on and it’s made a world of a different when I geared her rewards towards touch instead of treats. Treats should only be given when the horse is not expecting it. If you have a horse that doesn’t appreciate touch as much, release is your biggest ally.

7. One new thing at a time. Asking for the trot, and then asking for a figure 8 is setting up for failure if the trot isn’t where it needs to be. At this point, forward movement is more important. When it’s consistent, then start adding in more complex components.

8. Quit thinking about the timeline, and let your horse tell you where they need to be. Some horses are cantering in the round pen in 3 rides, some in the very first. But not all of them need to or should be doing that. I didn’t canter my last colt, who was very forward, until her 10th ride. We ended up gearing back down for months to work at the walk and trot before asking to school the canter under saddle again. I ended up with a 3 year old who I could ride on a loose rein at all 3 gaits, with control and partnership.

9. Ground drive. If she long lines well, this should be a no brainer. Get the forward cue on the driving lines first. It’s done easiest in a western saddle (in my experience), no matter the horse’s intended discipline. Run the lines through the stirrups and use them to bump the horses sides in combination with the verbal cue for forward that they already know. I ground drove my last colt as well, from 2 to 2 1/2 years old, before I ever swung a leg over. She already knew how to walk, trot, stop, turn, bend etc. By giving her education before mounting up for the first time, I took out most of the “scary” aspect of mounting and riding the first time. She only had to learn how to be mounted and how to carry me, she already knew the rest.

10. Once you’ve gotten your gas pedal installed, stop riding so quietly. Move around, pet them everywhere you can touch. Reach down and touch your toes, put your arms out to the sides etc. If you ride too quietly, your horse may balk/shy when a rider becomes unbalanced, or falls. No rider is ever perfect, no matter skill level, so allowing a horse to stop, shy or balk at a rider who rides less than perfect is not realistic.

[Equibrit]

@sillyhorse100

I guess I am feeling behiind because this is maybe my tenth ride on my horse and it seems like everybody walks trots and canters on their young horse by their thiird ride.

NO! There is NO TIMELINE for starting horses.

Balance is the most important thing with a youngster. Stay with what she is comfortable with until changing gears. Find a buddy and go for walking hacks, if buddy gets ahead she may offer you trot. Take it and make sure your balance is good. Ditto for canter. Trail rides are way better than an arena for starting babies. Up and down hills, different footing, livestock, etc.etc are all good experiences for the young horse in a relaxed atmosphere. Take her walking in long lines around the farm before trail riding if needed. You cannot expect her to know what your “aides” mean at this point. All she knows is that somebody is putting pressure on her. Make sure you teach voice aides very well on the lunge and long reins, then use verbal with leg etc. before dropping voice when alternative aides are solid. Voice aides will serve you well for her entire life.

[theresak]

I have this exact same horse in gelding format. He was always just a sweet, quiet boy. Good on the lunge line (but I didn’t realize how much encouragement he required to keep going), not spooky, easy to back at 3. But geeze, getting him forward after he was backed was really hard and scary because he’d start balking and then with more pressure from the leg he would get stuck and start threatening to do nonsense.

I didn’t always have a ground person or a lead horse but those helped the fastest. Whenever I could, I’d get someone to help me.

• Follow a pasture mate trotting around a large paddock (we actually were ponied a few times)

• Have someone lunge us in the trot and canter - still had issues with him not wanting to go forward and stay on the circle

• Have a ground person walk up and down the center of the indoor with a lunge whip and help with encouragement when needed

• Get off and lunge as soon has he got sticky then hop on and right back to a big trot - this is what I’d do when I was alone

He would also stop as soon as I’d tip forward, and I really liked to throw myself towards his head when I was asking for the canter. I ended up sitting the trot a lot while holding onto the bucking strap to make sure I was following with my seat and not bouncing.

Likely one of the biggest issues causing this was me holding, gripping, and having too much tension in my butt, thighs, knees, and calves. He wouldn’t go forward - I’d just squeeze harder. He is still so sensitive to any pinching or tightness in my lower body and I have to tell myself to to be floppy with my legs when we are in difficult situations (shows, off-site lessons, etc.) because that will still shut him down fast.

He is 6 now and finally this summer I really have him going/staying forward on his own and being happy about it. Because he was so hard to get forward at the beginning, I got into the habit of accepting a less than great response to the leg and nagged him a lot. I had no half halt until I fixed that this spring…

I recommend getting through this sticky period caused by your horse just not understanding and then when she knows the basic skills of being under saddle, really, really, really solidifying your horse stays forward and off the leg without nagging. Don’t wait until 6 to fix it like me.