Still Pasture Sound or Time to Let Go?

[Fence.Hopper]

Hello all! This is my first post.

I bought a 6 year old 16.3(ish) OTTB gelding straight off of the track in November with the hopes to make him a hunter/ jumper show horse. I did NOT PPE him as he was a free-be and jogged sound after doing flexions with the help of a friend. I did not put him into work right away as I just started a new job and the winter was particularly awful weather wise (I was also happy to let him sit and learn to be a riding horse in day to day life like turnout). In January he got into something in the pasture and got a decent sized flesh wound along with small, superficial cuts on his front legs (NOT barbed wire as there is none in the pasture but I am not sure what happened). His front left was a bit puffy and sensitive and both front legs were warm. I put him on stall rest per vet orders and wrapped all four legs rotating BOT wraps with regular wraps. He was on bute and SMZs for a little while. Once he was sound(er) we began hand walking while he was on stall rest. At his check up in February his front left was not as sound as the vet would have liked and was a bit warm so we x-rayed and found chips in his fetlock. Vet thinks he raced on them and other consulted vets (about 3-4 vets) agree they are older. We continue stall rest, wrapping, and hand walking while the flesh wound heals. After two months the wound is about 80% healed and the vet says he can start going back out so we begin transitioning him to full turnout. We spend about a month transitioning him back to full pasture. Vet comes out on 3/30 (March) for teeth, vaccinations, Coggins, and I have the vet do flexions on all four legs on both horses (my other horse is older and I like to see if she is worse or the same as flexions done prior). The gelding flexes sound overall and vet says to go ahead and start slowly putting him back into work and if the chips bother him once actually in work then we will go from there. I am gone for a few days and come back on 4/3 (April-5 days after vet) and he is standing on three legs. He looked like he was non-weight bearing on his hind right so I pull him out of the field to look him over. There are no cuts, swelling, or heat. He walked on it (I would say a 2.5/5 lameness) but would pick the foot up closer towards his belly than was normal. I give him bute throw him back in the field and call the farrier thinking abscess. Farrier comes out that Sunday 4/8 and does a trim. He says he does not think it is an abscess but his uneducated guess is a stifle issue. Horse was TERRIBLE for the farrier when he has been very well behaved the past several times. He is much worse the two days following the farrier, but has good and bad days for the next several days. On 4/13 he is standing with the leg in the air again. I try to back him up and he almost can’t, he stumbles quiet a bit and can’t seem to figure it out. He was also unable to make small circles and did not cross his hind legs over each other (like a neuro exam sort of). I take horse off of grain 4/13 (last ditch idea - grain was Buckeye Safe N Easy Performance 13% NSC) and on 4/16 he is MUCH improved to the point where it is not noticeable except in a shortness of step in the trot (trotted in hand). He is still off of grain and was having a bad day on Sunday but looked fine on the previous Tuesday. As of last night (4/22) he could back up okay and crossed his hind legs once out of maybe 3 circles and only one direction (hind right crossed over hind left once or twice whereas before he almost fell over doing little circles)

What I have done with him:
*Transisitoned to barefoot - his heels are low but nothing terrible and he has tough feet. His feet are also slow growing but I am working on putting him on biotin.
*Teeth floated on 3/30 - vet said his teeth looked like they had never been floated
*UTD on shots
*Round of Pentosan for chips/ overall soreness
*Treated ulcers with Nexium and a very long taper as well as a gut supplement
*Put on low starch high fat diet - Renew gold 2lbs/ day, CA Trace Plus pellets, Vit E 8,000 IU (natural), 2 cups canola oil/ day, 2 OZ/ day Contribute (fish oil)
*FEC and dewormed accordingly
*Free choice grass hay with about 10lbs of alfalfa a day
*24/7 turnout

Symptoms/ Issues:
*Slightly underweight (4.5 BCS)
*Cannot cross hind legs over each other
*When he backs the left front and back right move in unison but the back left moves out of sync with the front right (not sure if important)
*Often leaves some food behind
*Drops grain even after teeth being floated
*Short steps behind (both legs)
*Holds back right leg up as if to kick (he would not kick) and then slowly places it back on the ground
*Lifts leg up higher occasionally during the walk - hard ground makes it worse but there are days when he doesn’t show this at all
*Leg does not come up any high than normal at the trot but does not track up and is still definitely off
*I have seen his back right leg “give out” or slip out maybe 3 times since 4/3
*Cannot canter - it is extremely difficult to try to get him into the canter in general (this horse used to LOVE to run and play and gallop on the lunge and the field) and it looked disunited and like his legs were bending oddly. I only got maybe 3 whole strides but it was clear he was completely uncomfortable.
*Will not trot in hand and is so slow when being lead whereas before he used to be a little ahead of me and was very happy to trot in hand

I apologize for the length trying to clarify. I cannot have the vet out until I pay down the bill from 3/30 which I just received (vet is slow about submitting those things). I am also in grad school so my budget unfortunately is not unlimited. I will not do a bone scan or MRI as I cannot afford to. I will not make any set decisions until I have a better idea of what I am looking at (hopefully a diagnosis) but I do not want to spend hundreds more to chase a lameness. My biggest conflict is that he used to be such an overly happy, zealous for life kind of guy and now he just stands around with my mare and kinda looks sad. I don’t want to keep him in a life where he can only walk and painfully trot around the pasture because that doesn’t seem very fair to a horse that would much rather be galloping bucking and playing. In the meantime I suppose I can bute him everyday (I worry about ulcers) and keep hand walking, grooming, and let him spend sometime in the BOT sheet.

[DawningDreams]

He doesn’t sound like he has much of a quality of life. I understand your fears about PTS at such a young age but if he’s been so uncomfortable, depressed, and in pain, I think that it is the kindest thing to do. He’s in pain and isn’t enjoying life. It is ultimately up to you but in my opinion, I think that he’s telling you that it’s time. Good luck with your decision, I know this must be so hard.

[kiwichick]

I find the thread a bit hard to follow?
He had a wound, and fetlock chips? the vet said the wound had healed well when he flexed sound in front, was that a bone chip removal surgery wound?
The he was lame behind and removing grain helps, but he cant trot or canter?

Whats been done in the way of actual diagnosis, especially on the hind end lameness.
Sorry I know you probably have answers to this, its just very unclear from the thread

[Fence.Hopper]

Sorry KiwiChick I am bit all over the place.
Fetlock chips were not removed as we think he raced on them (sound) and he needed stall rest for his wound to heal any way (kind of a wait and see). Surgeon said removal might make things worse as they may have to debride some of the joint I think. I wasn’t too clear other than if he was sound on the chips leave them in (we found them by accident while looking for a different lameness in that same leg - the initial lameness in the front leg we did a full workup and found the chips. Vet said chips may or may not be an issue but they were not the cause of his lameness at that point. The wound was about a pasture accident on one.

The lameness behind is the craziest thing. The first day I thought abscess because he was just holding his leg up and was worse on hard ground but better on soft. Farrier came out and ruled out abscess (barring taking hoof X-rays) but horse was down right awful for farrier. Not being rude but clearly not comfortable with standing on three legs (while one leg was being worked on) regardless of which hoof farrier was working on. Hind left leg was worst (the lame leg). Took videos sent to vet she says abscess (changed her mind after I told her the farrier’s reaction), stifle, or shivers. The next day horse is much better, then it flares up again and stays constant at “bad” until we remove grain. He had been on a “grain free” diet with the Renew Gold only until this month. I thought the grain would help him put some weight on but it seems to make whatever the issue is worse (maybe causing an inflammatory response?) so we are back to just Renew Gold. I am currently buting on bad days and monitoring him. I can’t afford to have the vet out right away as I just received the most recent vet bill this week and need to pay that first. I have done a “self” neuro test by doing a few of the tests on my own and he did not do well (could not cross his hind feet in small circles, couldnt back up well without stumbling) but re did the same things today and he fine backing and crossed his hinds in one direction but not the other. I have not had a full eval on his hind yet as I was hoping it may have just been a tweak from the pasture or an abscess and it is recent (4/3 start). I am nearing the end of my financial means with 4 $400+ vet visits in four months and paying for everything else that comes with horses and life. I could have him see the lameness specialist but it will have to wait until I pay off my existing bill.

Disclaimer* I am by NO means wanting to PTS without a diagnosis, but I am also not going to be able to afford more than the run of the mill flexions, nerve blocks, X-rays and ultrasounds. I can’t afford a bone scan or MRI and if we can’t diagnose without those tools then I will see if he improves with time and then decide.

[kiwichick]

Are you in the US?
Im in Australia and there seems to be a bunch of afflictions over there that we dont get here (thank god) like lyme and EPSM and the likes, so I cant comment on them.
I have had a wobbler though and he struggled similar to your description, only it wasnt on/off and never showed as lame. But he couldnt canter without bing disunited, couldnt back up, dragged toes over on the hind until they were completely square. He was 6yo and I remember when he was sound, I rode him sound at the track. I have no idea when it happened, but he compressed his neck at some point and there was no recovery from that. He was PTS.
Hopefully the added info helps anyone with useful info on any of the other USA type afflictions too and wether they fit.
I had so many horses off the track, and I cannot remember a sound one TBH

[danacat]

Question: Did you get this horse straight from the track or did he come from a farm, rescue org. etc. already having had let down/pasture/turn-out time? If straight off the track I think you MIGHT be dealing with the often usual Pandora’s box of problems – unhealthy feet, sore muscles, uneasily defined mystery problems that either just need time to heal or alternatively need specific treatment in order to heal.

Case in point – an OTTB I got straight from the track was a total mess. Horrible feet (abcesses galore for months) his back hurt, his hocks were arthritic, he was so muscle sore he couldn’t get down to roll, couldn’t canter, couldn’t make tight cirlcles, had/has a fetlock chip thankfully not in joint – and the list goes on and on. Long story short he’s 100% sound now and has rock crushing bare feet. But it took well over a year of R&R, healthy diet, bute, one hock injection, then osphos, 24/7 turn out just being a horse and on and on.

I certainly can’t tell you that your horse will come around like mine did, but sometimes you do have to wait and see what the horse’s body will do naturally to heal itself of some of these problems with some help of course (injections or other) that address known problems.

OTTB’s can be a real conundrum. Sorry to hear you and your horse are going through such a bad time. Wish I had more to offer in the way of help – but it sounds premature (and I could be wrong) to consider putting this horse down just yet.

[Simkie]

Back and forth between sound/not sound and a chip in the fetlock that the horse raced on? I’d be highly suspicious that there’s not much cartilage left in there, and that the chip is floating in and out of the articular space. If that’s the case, the chip needs to be removed for any hope of a sound horse, but if the cartilage is trashed, the horse will likely never be sound enough for real work.

It’s not clear here… Have you had a full lameness exam, with flexions and blocks, performed? How about a neuro exam?

[Fence.Hopper]

I am in the US and he is 6 months post track. In those 6 months we have transitioned him to barefoot (and he is doing well still has some typical low heels), had teeth done, did and FEC and De wormed according to that, gotten up to date on all shots, treated for ulcers (including taper and gut supplements), did a round of Pentosan for the chips/ any general soreness he might have had (no change seen), put on free choice grass hay with added alfalfa, put him on a high fat low starch diet with vit/mineral supplement, and transitioned to living out 24/7 with my other horse.
Danacat - He came in excellent condition. Good weight, healthy coat, maybe some digestive upset as he was not too keen on finishing breakfast and not the best shoeing job but certainly not needing much done. Very sound when he first arrived and did not show any issues until he had the pasture accident and got cut up. He banged his front left leg up a little too (small cuts, swelling, heat, mild lameness) and the vet thinks that aggrivated the chips and that’s why we X-rayed there and found them. After stall rest, wrapping, bute, SMZs for the wound and some time horse heals up well (small scab left on wound and leg is now sound). He is now lame on the back right with the front left still sound (per vet on 3/30 when she did flexions on him). I’ve never had an OTTB that had this many issues as a part of let down, especially when they come healthy.

Simkie - He is lame on the lateral opposing leg (front left has the chips and he is lame back right). My thought was it may be some kind of compensation for the leg with chips, however he flexed at a 1 on the front left (chipped) leg so I cannot imagine he would be compensating for it now. While he was on stall rest I kept all four legs wrapped and rotated regular wraps and BOT wraps and he was kept on bute until he was more comfortable on it at the walk/ standing in his stall. Hind right leg did not show up with lameness until a month after coming off stall rest so I am not sure they are related.

No I have not done a full work up since the hind right lameness showed up. He had a full lameness work up in Feb to see how his legs were healing/ make sure nothing was overly damaged after the pasture accident (no major injuries besides the chip which were found during that exam). He had flexions done again on 3/30 when the vet came out for vaccinations and teeth floating at which point the vet said he was sound and could start being put back into work. I did not get a chance to ride/ Work him at all as the lameness showed up on 4/3.

As of right now he is in the field and on bute on bad days. I groom him and hand walk on days when he looks “sound” and will let him have some time in the BOT sheet which seems to make him feel a bit better. The plan was to have the chiro out this month and see if he notices anything severely out of whack (I normally chiro OTTBs sooner but his vet bills have kept me from being able to afford it sooner). I have to pay down my current vet bill (from the visit on 4/3) before I can have them out again. FWIW I am in grad school full time still and working full time. I have had horses since high school and have never had one rack vet bills up so quickly (about $1200 from Jan to now).

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I wouldn’t write him off without further evaluation from a vet on that hind end. How much time off the track has he had? If he was sound in Feb. could he have slipped and injured something behind? How are his feet angles coming along? Was there a lot you had to change?

As far as ulcers go, rantidine is a cheaper way to treat them, but you have to medicate every 8 hours for it to be effective. You can buy generic rantidine at places like Costco much cheaper than doing a month of GastroGard. I can’t imagine a TB that doesn’t require grain to maintain weight–at least I have never been blessed with one. I’m not sure how many calories are available in what you are feeding? There are low NSC grains that you can feed (Triple Crown Senior, a ration balancer, etc.). But maybe I misunderstood the product you are using and it has a lot of calories. Oil is another way to add fat. (Nevermind, I looked it up–it is basically a fat supplement–so I wouldn’t add oil, just a RB to get the missing nutrients). I would still worry about ulcers if weight is an issue and he is in pain. Yes, still unlimited hay/alfalfa is also good assuming teeth, worming and everything obvious have been taken care of, which it sounds like you have done. If he’s sore again his ulcers could flare and it could make him overall that much worse.

It would be interesting to block that lame hind and see if anything else comes up lame.

I feel bad for you. I had a TB who was a giant money drain.

[fordtraktor]

You will need to get a full workup to have any real answers. I wouldn’t PTS without more information. it could be all sorts of things. I would do an EPM test and Lyme titer. I have seen both manifest as lameness that pops up in different locations.

[Jealoushe]

My guy had a similar lameness in the hind that was abscess…and the abscess was in his entire hoof, it totally encapsulated it. It took three months of daily soaking and digging to get it right. I wouldn’t shrug that off just yet. x ray the foot.

[Simkie]

I’m sorry, but I’m still having a hard time tracking you here.

Horse came off the track this winter looking good. Did you do a PPE?

Horse got in a pasture accident and had to be on stall rest. What exactly happened?

Horse has chips in a front fetlock but vet is unconcerned.

Horse is lame on opposite hind leg from chips and vet is unconcerned. Or vet has never seen horse for hind limb lameness?

Horse is thin, but horse is not on any grain.

Horse seems to have no joie de vivre and doesn’t play.

Does that about sum it up?

Very few TBs can be on a no-grain diet, even with the inclusion of alfalfa. He’s thin because you’re not meeting his caloric needs. That one is easy–feed him more.

The hind limb lameness could be anything. You really need a lameness workup to figure that one out.

The chips are concerning. I’ve not had good luck with them, although other people have.

If the horse is sore, which you know he is, it’s unsurprising he’s not bouncing around the pasture. If he’s unfit, which it sounds like he is after stall rest, it’s unsurprising he finds cantering difficult with a rider. Track horses aren’t often trotted in hand–if you’re asking him to do that, and he’s not willing, he may just have no idea what you’re asking.

You really need to get the vet out for a real workup–including a neuro exam to screen for EPM and c spine issues and other neuro problems–before doing anything else. And start him back on some grain. If you’re concerned about NSC, Triple Crown Senior is a popular one with about as low NSC as you can find.

[findeight]

Where did you get this horse?
When did you take over his care?
From whom? No names needed but did you buy him directly from his track owner or somebody else, like a rescue?
Did you get a PPE?
Where are the bone chips discovered this year on the x rays?

Having a real hard time understanding your timeline and sequence of events. You seem to contradict yourself a few times and the math is fuzzy. He last raced 6 months ago, which would be late October and you have had him the whole 6 months? Is that much correct? 2.5 months off for a laceration since New Years? What were you doing with him from late last fall until he hurt himself this year?

Lots of drama in this post.

[Fence.Hopper]

TrotTrotPumpkin - I think I answered most of your questions above! I rewrote the original post so hopefully it is easier to follow
Jealoushe - I will certainly keep that in mind. I hope it doesn’t take 3 months to “pop” if so!
Fordtractor - I feel like he could be slightly neuro but I am also a little over the top and always worry about neuro because of past experiences.
Simkie - Apologies again. I attempted to rewrite the original post to clarify but it got a bit longer. To answer your questions: No PPE he was a free-be. I still am not positive what happened to him in the pasture - it happened while I was gone and the boarding barn has no idea. He cut off a large chunk of skin off of his forearm area (about palm sized) and cut/ banged up his lower legs (minor cuts). Vet is concerned but I asked to re-evaluate the leg with flexions and palpitation when he had his check up for the wound. As he is now flexing sound on the chips vet is not concerned, vet thinks we wouldn’t have noticed the chips if he hadn’t banged up his legs in the pasture. Vet has not seen horse for hind limb lameness as of yet. Horse is around a 4.5 BCS and is not on grain unless you consider the Renew Gold. When I added Buckeye Safe N Easy Performance (NSC 13%) coincided with when he went lame (started grain 3/30 and went lame 4/3), and when I took him off it he seemed better. Coincidence? Probably, but I will try reintroducing the grain and see if that doesn’t change the lameness. He previously trotted in hand well and now does not.

Find eight - I got him and took over his care in November. I bought him directly from the track owner - he shipped straight from the track to the barn where I board. No PPE. Yes chips were discovered this year (while in my care). I apologize for rounding up by about 2 weeks. I got him early November so I was counting November as 1, December 2, Jan 3, etc. I did not do anything with him other than get him transitioned to turnout and being barefoot. Per track owner he had never turned him out and the track owner had him for about a year so we had some adjusting to do. I started a new job and we had very bad winter weather for a while so I saw no harm in him getting more let down time.
I agree - having a horse that is constantly injured and running up bills with no end in sight is a lot of stress or drama to handle. Lucky for him I am trying to exhaust all my resources, financial and intellectual (including this board), to ensure he has the best care he can.

[Simkie]

With everything you’ve added, I would lean toward EPM, maybe spinal problems, maybe lyme. Neuro deficit may have contributed to the injury in the field as well. Regardless, that’s a vet call for more diagnostics.

Why was the horse retired from the track?

The bullet point format in the first post is a big improvement for conveying information

[mckenna310]

I think you need to have a vet come and do a neurologic exam, as you will not get a diagnosis over the internet by anyone on this forum.

[fordtraktor]

OP, with your financial limitations (which I totally get) why don’t you just turn the horse out for six months or so. Some horses just need some time off after the track to get over issues. Also, some TBs (well any kind of horse but often TBs) just can’t handle barefoot no matter how good their diet is. I have seen this myself in my own horses – I had 2 TBs and a WB for a while. The WB has feet of iron – and the TBs not. when they were all barefoot and the ground froze hard for a few days, the TBs were mincing their way to the gate for meals at a slow walk and the WB was cantering around in glee, perfectly sound. And these horses have had excellent nutrition for years…I put shoes back on the TBs.

I have had a few horses with “ankles” and a lot of the time it doesn’t bother them at all. Unless it does. But it doesn’t sound like your horse is bothered since it is sound up front. They definitely wouldn’t cause the hind issues. I have had abscesses take forever and a day to work their way out and they OFTEN get abscesses when you’ve recently taken shoes off.

[TSWJB]

It is way too soon to be thinking put your horse to sleep. You had him on 2 months stall rest. This is a horse who was in stressful high pressure work and suddenly is locked up in a stall. Of course his stifles are going to be weak!!! Stall rest definitely can contribute to stifle lameness. My horse was on stall rest and he was sound at his 2 month check up for hind suspensory but lame at his 3 month check up and his suspensory had healed. Vet felt it was stifle weakness that was making him lame. And it takes a long time to build the stifle back up. I am still rehabilitating him a 11 months later.
The other thing you did was pull his shoes. That can make them very sore. My other horse had a long toe low heel thing going on that I wanted to fix. I pulled the shoes and he was on off gimpy. He walked around the paddock funny on when the ground was really hard. you have to give them time. You need to be painting his feet with durasole and conditioning his feet with light work outs on hard ground. Starting slowly and increasing as tolerated. If the horse is really gimpy, you only do light hand walking on gravel. Do not force a horse to walk long periods of time while lame. But in order to harden up the feet they must be gradually exposed to harsher terrain.
If I were you, I would start a conditioning program. I would start by hand walking 10 minutes a day 2x a day or 20 minutes if you cant get out there 2 times like I couldn’t. then I would gradually increase the handwalking every 3 to 5 days by 5 minutes. Until you are up to 1 hour of hand walking. Then I would start handwalking under saddle. Same thing start with 10 minutes and increase by 5 minutes every 3 to 5 days. When you are at 45 minutes you can start adding in 5 minutes of trotting. I would increase the trot weekly by 5 minutes. Then when you are at 45 minutes trotting you can start adding in 5 minutes of cantering.
If your horse is progressing well, you may be able to increase the walking or trotting a bit more quickly like every 3 days. Or trotting every 5 day increase. Depending on the horse. This was my program for rehabilitating a hind suspensory. It’s a good program for recovery from an injury.
This is a slow conditioning program but it will give your horse a chance to heal and help him condition his feet. I love barefoot but some horses will be sore barefoot. Hopefully the gradual conditioning will allow you to keep your horse barefoot, if not he may need boots or shoes.
This horse needs to be given a chance. It is labor intensive, but it’s a cheap therapy to have a better understanding if your horse will be sound or not.

[joiedevie99]

IMHO… these sorts of waves of problems are pretty normal and to be expected in horses coming off the track. None of us can say whether this hind end issue is normal or abnormal without seeing him.

I would hand walk him on good footing twice a day, every day. Schedule a full workup on the hind end as soon as you are able - hopefully no more than a week or two from now.

[Bree]

My 2 cents given the advice you’ve already gotten.

This horse needs a neurological work-up as well as a lameness work-up. They can be very hard to tell apart. But I also know your finances are limited so turn him out for a bit until you can afford the work up. Him sitting in a pasture is not going to hurt anything until you can find out more and it may improve it.
I would start with some blood tests and just physical exams before jumping to more expensive diagnostics. I’m not sure where you are located but you may want to consider trailering him to one of the vet schools - often they can work with you financially or they may have studies you can enroll him in to get advance treatment and diagnostics very inexpensively (one of my horses had stifle surgery this way. I basically paid for the boarding of him and that was it).

I hope this helps and good luck. This guy sounds like a tough one.