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Stirrups and Knee Pain?

I’ve got some arthritis issues in both knees with a less than perfect result from a series of injections a couple months ago. (My knees, not the horse’s!) Years ago I tried the Herm Springer jointed stirrups and was not particularlly a fan. I felt pretty insecure with my highly flexible ankles, but am wondering if I should give them a go again? However, I hear more about them for ankles than knees. I’ve put the $40 version of the plastic stirrup with the wider foot bed on my saddle last week. http://www.doversaddlery.com/composite-reflex-stirrup-irons/p/X1-0742/ Maybe some improvement, but they seem to only come in 4 3/4 size which feels really small. Any advantages to the more expensive options? What are the various stirrups, leathers, etc out there that might give some knee relief and what kind of experiences have you had or heard of?

I have two bad knees and found that the Stubben Double Offset stirrups made riding for hours while hunting possible. They are nice and heavy, and it is relatively simple to pick the stirrups back up if you happen to lose them.

http://www.doversaddlery.com/stübben-double-offset-stirrup-irons/p/X1-0704/#ProductTabs

Because of the way they are designed the knee doesn’t have to contort to keep the foot in the right position.

Bumping this to get it above the spam…

I have one bad knee but when I jump they both seem to be bad.

Purchased a a pair of Royal Rider stirrups. absolutely love them!!! The grip and the stability my knees are happy. Then I also got a pair of Jins. The jins I now use for Jumping and th RR’s for my dressage. My knees have been fine with the bigger foot bed.

The flex stirrups are crap for knees.

​​​​No, they aren’t. They don’t help everyone’s knee pain, but they do help many people’s knee pain.

I thought they were a gimmick, way back when they became the in thing. Then a fellow boarder invited me to borrow hers to see what I thought. At the time knee pain when riding was a given if I rode for longer than half an hour or so - which was almost every ride. I was astonished that the Sprenger 4way flex irons made a difference.

I saved up and bought my own pair, and later got a knock off pair(Greenhawk’s Connemara flex irons as they were the closest in flex feel that I could find) for my dressage saddle. In the beginning half an hour in regular irons hurt, but after some time, years probably, I could manage an hour ride with regular irons (when I rode someone else’s horse) without pain.

Many years later I have forgotten about the daily knee pain, and all three of my saddles have Sprenger or Connemara flex irons. All of my regular irons have been sold.

​​That said, the flex.irons definitely don’t work for everyone and can even make things worse. Not all flex irons are created equal either. I manipulated every different brand I could find before buying the Connemara irons, and there was a wide variance in the stiffness. There are even more brands available now.

OP, if you can borrow a pair to test ride it could save you some money. Bearing in mind that it was many years ago, I do recall feeling a little unstable at first when I borrowed then bought my own Sprengers. The lack of pain sold me though, and it didn’t take long to get comfortable. A lot of people used the metal, cheese grater style treads back then, though I didn’t. I now use the wrap style treads on all of mine.

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My freejumps have really helped my knees where my lorenzinis crippled me. They were worth the investment.

Aren’t Freejumps the ones that broke with the jumper rider in a competition?

I have Royal Riders which have allowed me to hunt for hours at a time without knee pain. (I have some weird knee problems and have had surgery on both.) I do not like most flexible stirrups, but I don’t think I felt that way until I broke my ankle.

I have tried the Compositi stirrups you linked and I did not like them, too unstable. But I also really like the cheese-grater pads, which is definitely a personal preference.

Never seen that and there are many top riders across both sports (eventing and showjumping) using them. There’s freak accidents with all equipment, but I know many people who have them and I’ve never heard of them breaking.

In my experience, but who have flexibility issues in their joints, like the flexible irons. If you are too flexible especially in the ankles, I would try a wider foot bed to help stabilize.

H & H on the broken Freejumps:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/freejump-stirrup-break-investigation-henrik-von-eckermann-paris-grand-prix-616099

According the Freejump the break happened on a stirrup from a 2012 production run from a “micro-fracture”.

Thanks everybody for the replies. I spent a rainy day yesterday looking up options. I’ve broken it down to combinations of 5 major things that these alternative stirrups actually do.

  1. A flexing foot bed–Herm Springers
  2. A wider foot bed for more support–the Compsiti I linked in the OP
  3. A swivel leather connector or set up that allows the stirrup to freely hang 90° or 45° to the horse–MDC Stirrups
  4. A cushioned or wrapped foot bed–Super Comfort or ThinLine wraps
  5. Either an angled leather insertion hole OR an angled footpad (same effect)–Stubben Double Offsets

Does anybody have any thoughts as to why riders are susceptible knee pain in the first place (or is it all just random) and then what is the physics of these different functions that address the issues? I’ve not found much of anything on rider knee pain causes.

For the record (and anyone doing a search in the future) I’ve been diagnosed with patellofemoral arthritis. I have lost the cartilage underneath my knee cap that fills the space between the knee joint itself and the knee cap. The joint itself looks pretty good. Pain is only during the posting trot and in galloping position. Off horse I have pain going down steps and running. But no pain at all unless I’m actively doing those specific activities.

I figure with my share of medical costs and for PT at $95 a pop investing is some different stirrup options to figure out what might work is money well spent!

Does one get knee pain when riding bareback? IMO, one does not.

I believe it has to be the relation between the angle of the resting knee and the angles of the foot and ankle and the pressure that the rider puts on the stirrup to keep the heels down. Posting would add to that pressure. After all, the foot is connected to the knee, so changes from the “natural” angle must put strain on the resting angles of the parts of the very loosely connected knee . So stirrups and leathers and the way they are connected to the saddle that creates their angles can function as instruments of twisting (and torture). Stirrup bars can also probably make a huge difference, since they are part of the unit.

So might the angles created by knee blocks and pads. That’s one reason I like very little padding and blocking. Have you thought about removing the knee padding and blocking?

I wonder if knee pain was as common in old style saddles?

This is all speculation, of course, but it’s an interesting topic to think about.

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I found this a while back and thought it was interesting: http://greyhorsematters.blogspot.com/2009/11/riders-knee.html

At the moment, I’m trying a pair of the Compositi Reflex stirrups, but I’ve never ridden with wedge pads. Anybody tried them?

Love my MD stirrups, the HS Flex stirrups actually caused knee pain for me. Give them to my trainer has used them for the past 7 years.

After reading Inclined’s link, I searched for the right kind of wedged stirrup pad. BOB used to carry them, but they aren’t on their present website. I did find a link to a wholesaler who still lists them.
http://www.jacksmfg.com/Fillis-White…html?b=d*6105
And a retailer: http://greenrivertack.com/catalog/pr…oducts_id=9456

It would certainly be the cheapest experiment you could make. Franklin Horse is a Jacks dealer.

Or you could import them from the UK (?) in black for £7.40 from here:https://www.tattiniriding.com/produc…ge-shaped-2348

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Of course, your results may be different from mine.

I tried the wedge pads. My feet ended up in extreme pain from being forced down against the rather sharp stirrup branch of the Fillis stirrups.

Then I tried the Stubben Single Offset AND Double Offset Fillis stirrups. My resulting foot pain was excruciating.

Then I went to regular Fillis stirrups and I nearly quit riding because the ball of my foot hurt so bad.

I went back to using Prussian sided stirrups. My feet no longer hurt.

If one is patient double offset Pussian sided stirrups sometimes appear on E-Bay, at least that is where I bought all my pairs. Unfortunately most are Never-Rust or Nickle, but occasionally a precious pair of Eldonian Stainless Steel double offset Prussian sided stirrups appear. I was lucky enough to find a pair of the Eldonian double offset stirrups and I’ve been riding in them for several years.

Because my ankles are weak I ended up putting a Chifney bit snap in the eye of the stirrup (top hole) so when my foot is in the stirrup the snap is on the OUTSIDE. This lessens the slope of the stirrup’s foot-bed. Now my feet never hurt, my ankles are happy, my lower leg is more stable, my heels are down, and I feel more secure in the saddle.

The Prussian sided stirrups can also be used without a stirrup pad.

I hate any type of Fillis stirrup with a purple passion because they make my feet and the base of my big toe hurt, and the longer I ride the worse my feet hurt. Before I got my Prussian sided stirrups I was hobbling for days after a rather short ride, just 30 minutes at the walk and trot.

Jackie C, would this be the type of stirrup you are talking about? I think it may be mislabeled by the seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-1-2-English-Fillis-Style-Stirrups-w-Pads-English-Saddle-/192134443093?hash=item2cbc1af055:g:B0AAAOSwuxFYzwdF

Those double offset irons had me in screaming pain within minutes the one time I tried them. I felt they locked my legs/joints into a position that was uncomfortable for my body. Which sounds like too much stability and might make them a good choice for those who want more stability.

I had the knee pain from twisting the stirrup out in a western saddle, but not found it a problem in English saddles.

I have the MDC S Classics (so combining the 45 degree twist with the wide footbed), and they helped me a lot with both knee and ankle pain.