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Storm Cat to cover QH mares via AI

Racing
#21

[QUOTE=shawneeAcres;3810293]
Please get your facts straight! Go Man Go and Easy Jet were NOT TB’s.

here are their pedigrees:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/easy+jet

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/go+man+go

Even Three BArs who was EXTREMELY influential in all areas of QH breeding (not jsut racing, but contributed a huge amount to cutting thru Doc Bar) was never a “papered” QH , he was simply apporved as a listed breeding stallion by AQHA. He was undoubtably one of the founding sires of the modern QH breed however.[/QUOTE]

Yep, you’re right. For some reason I had stuck in my head that they were they TBs, should’ve checked first. Ok, so now I understand that Storm Cat cannot get papers (Ok, NOW I get it :slight_smile: - I can be thick sometimes). So, I pulled out my old mare’s papers. It has Beduino on it. Beduino is a TB. On my mares papers, he was bred to a white papered QH and they produced my mare’s dam (who you would think had yellow papers, correct?) But my mare has white papers and her dam didn’t get an ROM. So, how did my mare get white papers? That’s why I am confused. My mare is by Royal Quick Dash. Not sure if that matters any.

I know next to nothing about QH’s so I’m curious about the paper colors and how easy it would be for Storm Cat to be completely integrated into their studbook.

#22

[QUOTE=Las Olas;3810346]
Yep, you’re right. For some reason I had stuck in my head that they were they TBs, should’ve checked first. Ok, so now I understand that Storm Cat cannot get papers (Ok, NOW I get it :slight_smile: - I can be thick sometimes). So, I pulled out my old mare’s papers. It has Beduino on it. Beduino is a TB. On my mares papers, he was bred to a white papered QH and they produced my mare’s dam (who you would think had yellow papers, correct?) But my mare has white papers and her dam didn’t get an ROM. So, how did my mare get white papers? That’s why I am confused. My mare is by Royal Quick Dash. Not sure if that matters any.

I know next to nothing about QH’s so I’m curious about the paper colors and how easy it would be for Storm Cat to be completely integrated into their studbook.[/QUOTE]

Her dam had to have gotten an ROM to be upgraded to regular registry. At one time a horse COULD be inspected and be upgraded, athough I am unclear as to the process, but I believe that was many years back as in the forties/fifties. If you will give me the name of you mare’s dam I can check on AQHA site and tell you if the mare did obtain enough points (which can be in racing OR showing) to get an ROM.

The other question is, does your MARE have an ROM? That would have allowed her to be upgraded regardless of her parentage.

#23

Thanks Shawnee,

I just pulled an QH equineline report. The pedigree I was looking at had a couple of names with ROM, but not her dam. But the equineline 43Q I pulled is showing the dam with her ROM in 1981. Maybe just a typo on the original report I was looking at? That why I was getting so confused. Interestingly, the mare only won 2 races (SPR=76), earned $963 and they gave her an ROM? She is half sister to a stakes winner, but I would think they would be more particular?

So, Storm Cat would need to be intergrated into the stud book through his daughters? If his daughters (by QH mares) received their ROM, then they could in turn be bred back to a TB? Correct?

#24

According to AQHA an ROM is awarded either based on a speed index of 80 or higher, or if the horse earns enough points in races. It takes 10 points to get an ROM. In showing points are based on number of horses shown and the placing, it works the same in racing. So a horse can earn points in races/shows that it does not win, but comes in second, thrid etc if enough participants. It really doesn’t take that much to get an ROM, when the horse is requested to be advanced, they also require a veterinarian certificate as to certain inherited traits that they don’t exist in the horse, i.e. parrot mouth, crytorchid etc.

#25

According to the article in the Blood Horse I saw, when SC began having fertility issues one of the people brought in to help suggested saving semen on the “leftovers” of his breedings, so the semen has already been saved, so therefore it is not at this time neccessary to collect him at this point in time

#26

From what I’ve read, saving semen from TB breedings is not all that uncommon. But they probably use the turkey baster with the stallions ejaculate after the live cover breeding’.

#27

Here’s the AQHA take on Storm Cat.
http://racing.aqha.com/racing/dyn_content.aspx?FQD=http://www.aqha.com/aqharacing.com/news/09stories/08stormcatbredtoqhmare.html

#28

[QUOTE=Jessi P;3810110]
Beezer are you saying that to be registered by the APHA the horse must have one APHA registered parent? Just curious. :wink:

About 5 years ago we looked into getting one of our racehorses registered as a paint and at the time he was eligible because he had enough white. We have one wildly colored racehorse (Loveable Lo) that would kick butt in the APHA hunter shows after his racing career, if he can be registered with the APHA.[/QUOTE]

As of now, yeah, the horse would have to have one registered Paint parent to get full Paint papers; the rule was passed just a couple of years ago. There was a big hullaboo about it over on the Sporthorse Breeding Forum here and other places because of all the wildly colored TBs that were getting in based on color alone – which made for a lucrative market :wink: – and as you surmised were kicking butt in the hunter ring at APHA shows.

I’m honestly not sure of all the specifics, since I only followed the saga from a “this is an amusing little train wreck they’re having over here” perspective :stuck_out_tongue: , but as it stands now, one of the two parents has to already be in the APHA book for the foal to be registered as a Paint. Here’s the rule:

"A. Regular Registry.
“1. All horses registered in the Regular Registry after January 1, 2005, must have one APHA Registered Paint parent (Regular, solid Paint-Bred or Breeding Stock registries) and will be identified by a permanent registration number. Exception: All horses resulting from the breeding of two Quarter Horses or a Quarter Horse and a Thoroughbred or two Thoroughbreds prior to the 2005 calendar year are eligible for registration. The horse must be parentage verified using DNA genetic testing prior to registration in the Regular Registry.”

So maybe flashy Lo would be eligible if foaled before '05 but that would be something you’d need to ask the APHA. :slight_smile:

#29

I thought they might have a hardship clause for colored TBs or QHs but they make you give up the other breed papers. How they MAKE you do that I don’t know. =) Or that could have been a proposal.

Foals born 2005 and later must have one registered APHA parent. Now you can still get a reg. TB and reg. Paint by breeding to one that was already registered before 2005 and now your foal will be registered and so on. But yeah it’s a shame they stopped allowing the TBs in, just makes no sense when you can still get them in anyway!!

#30

[QUOTE=Las Olas;3810282]
Ok, so if that’s the case, then how were Go Man Go and Easy Jet (I think that was his name), who were registered TB’s with performance ROMs bred to appendix mares and have registered QH offspring?[/QUOTE]

Those were both many, many moons ago. Go Man Go died a long time ago, as did Easy Jet (30+ years). And Go Man Go was only 3/4 TB, the rest was QH. (His damline). Easy Jet was about 5/8 Tb breeding (his dam was one of the few Pure TB mares by Three Bars… who was named one of the most influential QH stallions ever :slight_smile: Not bad for a TB I guess). Back then I could breed an Arabian mare (or stallion) to a Morgan, and called it a Quarter horse, bred it to Quarter horse stallions, and they’d be in the registry now. Some of them even have draft in their. Mustang, Morgan, TB, Arabian, it’s what makes a QH a QH :slight_smile:

After the registry was started, they started cracking down on the “off breeds”, then the Arabian was phased out (you could breed to an arabian, and if it passed inspection, the resulting foal got full QH papers). Then they started Appendix registering the Tb foals, and now… one parent must be of “QH” breeding.

#31

[QUOTE=smokygirl;3811056]
Those were both many, many moons ago. Go Man Go died a long time ago, as did Easy Jet (30+ years). And Go Man Go was only 3/4 TB, the rest was QH. (His damline). Easy Jet was about 5/8 Tb breeding (his dam was one of the few Pure TB mares by Three Bars… who was named one of the most influential QH stallions ever :slight_smile: Not bad for a TB I guess). Back then I could breed an Arabian mare (or stallion) to a Morgan, and called it a Quarter horse, bred it to Quarter horse stallions, and they’d be in the registry now. Some of them even have draft in their. Mustang, Morgan, TB, Arabian, it’s what makes a QH a QH :slight_smile:

After the registry was started, they started cracking down on the “off breeds”, then the Arabian was phased out (you could breed to an arabian, and if it passed inspection, the resulting foal got full QH papers). Then they started Appendix registering the Tb foals, and now… one parent must be of “QH” breeding.[/QUOTE]

ALthough what you ahve said is partially right 30 years ago they weren’t allowing arab blood in the registry. I was riding QH’s at the time, it wasn’t THAT long ago! The off breeds were phased out back in the 40’s/50’s era

#32

Exactly!!!

I just can’t get enough of LaurieB and LaurieP!!! Both brilliant and zinning to the correct point!!!

[QUOTE=LaurieB;3810135]
Talk about sucking the lemon dry…[/QUOTE]

#33

APHA enacted the one parent rule after AQHA rules changed to allow excesive white into their registry. Rumor is that APHA will be dropping the one parent rule for 2010.

#34

[QUOTE=PaulaK;3811441]
APHA enacted the one parent rule after AQHA rules changed to allow excesive white into their registry. Rumor is that APHA will be dropping the one parent rule for 2010.[/QUOTE]

That’s good news. I know of several TB breeders who were breeding to double register and they got out of the Paint biz when that rule came down. It was a stupid and petty rule and just hurt them in the end.

#35

[QUOTE=Andrew;3811331]
I just can’t get enough of LaurieB and LaurieP!!! Both brilliant and zinning to the correct point!!![/QUOTE]

I don’t think Storm Cat minds breeding in the least be it a mare or a dummy. Stallions tend to like that sort of thing…

#36

[QUOTE=shawneeAcres;3811194]
ALthough what you ahve said is partially right 30 years ago they weren’t allowing arab blood in the registry. I was riding QH’s at the time, it wasn’t THAT long ago! The off breeds were phased out back in the 40’s/50’s era[/QUOTE]

Officially Arabians were phased out in the 50’s, but mares (or stallions) who already had produced QH offspring could still contribute until into the late 60’s, so I guess about 40 years ago (wow… time flies). . A lot of the local mare owners used stallions that had been standing at the stallion remount stations after WWII, when the military brought a lot of european horses back (particularly Arabian and TB).

#37

[QUOTE=LaurieB;3810149]
I read somewhere that his price for QH mares will be $20,000. Quite a bargain, at least by TB standards. What is considered a high stud fee for a QH stallion?[/QUOTE]

The highest ‘listed’ fee I saw for a racing stallion was $40,000 for leading sire Corona Cartel. I’d be curious to see what Dash for Cash, First Down Dash, Special Effort etc. stood for at their peak fees.

#38

[QUOTE=Beezer;3810884]

"A. Regular Registry.
“1. All horses registered in the Regular Registry after January 1, 2005, must have one APHA Registered Paint parent (Regular, solid Paint-Bred or Breeding Stock registries) and will be identified by a permanent registration number. Exception: All horses resulting from the breeding of two Quarter Horses or a Quarter Horse and a Thoroughbred or two Thoroughbreds prior to the 2005 calendar year are eligible for registration. The horse must be parentage verified using DNA genetic testing prior to registration in the Regular Registry.”

So maybe flashy Lo would be eligible if foaled before '05 but that would be something you’d need to ask the APHA. :)[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much Beezer! I would post a pic of Lo but the only ones I have were just after we claimed him, when he looked like an ethiopian. Definitely not COTH worthy. :wink: In fact, he was so skinny that his barn name is “Bones” - everybody in the barn knows who Bones is. :slight_smile: He has a big wide blaze and four high whites, stifles are white as well as some belly spots. And he is tall and has this beautiful long lopey stride. When Darren claimed him he told me “wait til you see THIS one” and he is indeed very striking.

#39

One sends in the original papers of whatever other registry in order to get the new ones and new number.

Anybody up on AQHA history-like when AQHA itself was founded> seems to me it was maybe 50s or late 40s? Called something else before that and had very different requiremets compared to today…and no I am not old enough to remember.

The SC idea may be a good one for outcrossing…you know they will be quick and likely good looking. And I never, ever blame anybody for trying to make some more money collecting a stud-not like it’s unpleasant for them;).

#40

[QUOTE=Ensign;3815739]
The highest ‘listed’ fee I saw for a racing stallion was $40,000 for leading sire Corona Cartel. I’d be curious to see what Dash for Cash, First Down Dash, Special Effort etc. stood for at their peak fees.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info, Ensign! And welcome to the BB. :slight_smile:

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