That is like saying that someone who died in a car crash died becuse “his heart stopped”.
Except that Laine brought up Jamie and Frodo herself. They don’t typically buy made horses, with the exception of trying to buy Mazetto.
If people are going to continue to throw Jamie’s death out there like it was her fault or anything in her control, then there should be more blaming of DOC and his camp over Tigger Too’s death, and the respective individuals involved in the two that died in Florida. JAMIE DID NOT DIE FROM A RIDING INJURY. He finished his course clean at Jersey Fresh, and collapsed on the way to the vet check. It was a freak internal injury/breakdown like the ones mentioned above. The O’Connors have lost horses too, just because they are more experienced riders, doesn’t mean they can’t make a mistake and lose a horse either, it has happened.
[QUOTE=europa;3379150]
If you know your horse “ducks” at frames then why gun him and have him on the forehand? If they duck you should sit up and balance on the hind end in order to maximize the takeoff scope. HELLO…from a HJ[/QUOTE]
I agree. There is a big difference between going forward and running them off their feet 
Why would you take a horse to Rolex with a problem like this?
I have a problem with Trakehner jumps and there is on at a Novice course I run - until I can get over it and run that course clean, no Training level for me.
To me, this creates a hole in training of the horse. You don’t move the horse to the most difficult level unless you feel 100% at the lower levels - and plenty of lower levels have picture frame type jumps.
Maybe I am just reading it differently - and no, it does not look like he tried to duck out, but still - training before performance.
Ponyjumper4 - there are two reasons Eight St. James Place keeps being brought up: First, her seeming lack of responsibility for Frodo’s death tends to create a mental history of her and horse deaths in ‘bystanders’ minds. Hence, people remember another death while under her care and bring it up. Second, I remember hearing [some rumors about Eight St. James Place]. That is just conjecture, but if someone heard it as well, it will be more likely kept in the forefront of their minds.
Other upper level riders have had horses die under them - but look at Amy Tryon - on her Olympic Profile, she mentions Le Samurai and expresses remorse and bad judgement about not stopping him. If Laine had done this, then people would be more forgiving.
Great…my subscription to Equus expired last month.
Now I have to go to the newstand…
[QUOTE=europa;3379150]
If you know your horse “ducks” at frames then why gun him and have him on the forehand? If they duck you should sit up and balance on the hind end in order to maximize the takeoff scope. HELLO…from a HJ[/QUOTE]
Gosh…I would think if a horse does this alot he shouldn’t even be doing high level eventing. Would think you would want a horse that LIKED to jump.
[quote=Ajierene;3379449]
Second, I remember hearing [rumors about Eight St. James Place] That is just conjecture, but if someone heard it as well, it will be more likely kept in the forefront of their minds.
Conjecture or not, that is just a terrible thing to post on a public message board without first-hand knowledge.
Frodo was bought and then they found out he was in LOTR’s and went with it. She didn’t buy him because he was in the movies. He was eventing at the time. She didn’t make him. Yes, she brought him to advanced but he had his basics down pat. She changed his name too.
This is all so Britney Spears to me. You can see the writing on the wall with the accidents and now how they are handling the scrutiny. I just hope she gets a clue. I doubt it though. There’s a lot of deep seated psychosis going on with those 2 and it’s really manifesting itself now. I wish they would shut up and get help. I think they both could get better, they do have big hearts, it’s just cocked up at the moment.
[QUOTE=Spoilsport;3378892]
I haven’t gotten Equus but thought I’d mention that Practical Horseman also has an article on the future of eventing. It mentions Darren & Laine (“rising young professional”) in the begining, and goes on to quote Jimmy Wofford, Denny Emerson, and Danny Warrington (a lot of Danny).[/QUOTE]
Does anyone know who the horse and rider down on the second page of the Practical article are? Did they get back up?
I agree with Flutie. We’re feeding the Ashkers the hype they crave.
Flutie: How are you? I missed you at Rolex this year. Hope all’s well.
Alden
You are correct, a public forum is not the best place to put conjecture up. I looked for the necropsy results and could not find them. The closest I could find are the following articles. There are some articles on Chronicle of the Horse, but I do not have a subscription right now, so I could not access them.
http://special.equisearch.com/blog/horsehealth/2007/06/another-event-horse-fatality-eight.html
http://www.horse-canada.com/?p=733
http://useventing.com/archives.php?id=954
Does anyone know the results of the necropsy?
[QUOTE=Maryalden;3379525]
I agree with Flutie. We’re feeding the Ashkers the hype they crave.
Flutie: How are you? I missed you at Rolex this year. Hope all’s well.
Alden[/QUOTE]
I was there. All is well! You?
Flutie
Flutie…
Sorry, I wasn’t there, but will be next year.
I’m well. Can you PM me your new email address? I have an ancient address of yours that dates back to the late '90’s.
[QUOTE=upandoverolie;3379516]
Does anyone know who the horse and rider down on the second page of the Practical article are? Did they get back up?[/QUOTE]
To me, it seemed like Lauren and Tigger Too. I was there when it happened. The horse in the photo is chestnut. The photo was taken by Charles Mann and I know he was there shooting, so I’m fairly sure it was at Jersey Fresh.
as sad as the “accident” was I totally agree with all of you. Own up or shut up!
I am quite sure that Lainie is a far better rider than I am. I don’t event ,and if I did I doubt I would have ever made it to the advanced level. But I was taught,many moons ago to NEVER blame the horse. if he did ,indeed have a ducking problem,then I can’t imagine what she was doing running him advanced at Rolex. To compete at that level,I would think you need a very solid jumper.
I saw the video it looks like she made a mistake.Even if it Was the horses fault,it reflects badly on her as a horseman to blame him.It is incedible that she didn’t gain an ounce of humility from that accident.Did she learn anything?
[QUOTE=horsekpr;3380244]
I am quite sure that Lainie is a far better rider than I am. I don’t event ,and if I did I doubt I would have ever made it to the advanced level. But I was taught,many moons ago to NEVER blame the horse. if he did ,indeed have a ducking problem,then I can’t imagine what she was doing running him advanced at Rolex. To compete at that level,I would think you need a very solid jumper.
I saw the video it looks like she made a mistake.Even if it Was the horses fault,it reflects badly on her as a horseman to blame him.It is incedible that she didn’t gain an ounce of humility from that accident.Did she learn anything?[/QUOTE]
Isn’t there a book out there with a title along those lines? “There are no problem horses, only problem riders” or something like that. I think I read it eons ago.
I was there at the jump, and it makes me really upset to read her comments and watch her interview. I honestly in the moment thought I had seen a person and a horse die (I was only 50% correct), and she is so flippant about it it disturbs me. As long as I live I will never forget watching Frodo struggle to his feet and fight to stay there while his body gave out on him. I just had this feeling he was done for, no matter how positive they tried to spin it that he was going to the vet. Those few moments where he stood and then went down again were so awful, I don’t want to go back to Rolex just because of the chance I might see something like that again. I don’t have the strongest stomach, I’ll admit it. But I have held 3 of my own horses for the vet as he put them down, and watched them die, and watching Frodo flail around after what happened to him was almost worse and harder for me to come to grips with. I’m not an animal rights activist, but I have a hard time justifying his death, and an even harder time with her blaming it on him.
I am sure it is not. Lauren was facing to the left. I was at Jersey Fresh too, and was at the fence.
Since Laine’s accident, I for one, have found this completely inappropriate that people on this bulletin board continually bring up Eight St. James Place’s death [despite no supporting proof]. Shame on you for throwing that out here on a public bulletin board. She clearly has enough to deal with in the public eye, and you have added another horrible accusation. His death was not her fault and yes, she made a huge mistake with Frodo Baggins but how does anybody know that she is not feeling enough remorse? Just because she didn’t show it in the 5 minute interviews? She is on television, and it seems like they’d want to put on a good face, judging by how they’ve positively carried themselves whenever I have seen them at events. In the majority of her blogs, Laine or her mother had mentioned the loss of Frodo (and Jamie as well), and always mentioned how blessed they were to have Frodo in their lives, and how hard it was to tell Laine and for her to cope with the loss… maybe go back and read some of their blogs if you don’t find the sadness within Valerie and Laine. So just because she is not apologizing to the public for the loss of HER horse(s), in no way can anyone conclude that she is not dealing with this everyday.
I would think as eventers that we are supposed to be a supportive community, but the comments made on these threads about their mental state and Laine’s upbringing won’t help solve any of these problems. They aren’t factual, just very mean spirited.
If I am understanding correctly, I think what she means by “ducking” is not “ducking out” but actually ducking his head as he jumped picture-frame type fences. My first UL horse did this and I’ve known a few others. My horse would jump the fence normally with his body but would lower his head and neck and really stretch down in the air. This certainly never interfered with his ability to get his knees up, just felt a little unsettling as it was different in the air than his normal jump. The solution was to school those type of fences where possible and always ride him in a uphill balance to the fence. With time, you could barely notice that he did anything different at all.
My point is, I can’t imagine that a horse that has run around many intermediate and advanced courses and jumped many picture-frames and keyholes (many with a lower “ceiling” than that basket) has such a problem with ducking that it interferes with his jump to such a degree that he can’t get his front end up. And if the problem was that severe, he should have been schooling those questions at prelim or intermediate, not Rolex.
