Straight load trailer - door first or butt bar first?

[Txhorsedreamer]

I have a horse who is pretty easy to load in a straight load with 2 people, but when I am by myself, it makes me nervous because he will sometimes try to back out right when you go to close the door. My goal is to be safe while loading him by myself.

He is getting better and better each time I practice and right now I am not closing the door on him just yet. I can send him in and shut the door really quickly but there have been times where he is right about to back out and I don’t want to be in that position. You have to be really quick otherwise he might back out within 5 seconds. Today was the best day practicing so far because I would get him in however much I wanted, wait, and ask him to back just a couple steps and stop again, as opposed to flying all the way out. He stayed relaxed and was very good at standing still longer periods of time. Couple steps in, out, in, etc. I practiced clanging around and latching the butt bar on the opposite stall and myself moving around with the expectation that he still stand no matter what until I ask him otherwise. I just want to be safe!

When I’m ready, would it be safer for me to close the door first or should I do the butt bar first?

[Cat_Tap]

If you close the door first can you still reach the butt bar? I couldn’t on my trailer. I used a lunge line to load him so I still had a hold of him while I went through the other stall to do up the but bar. I closed the door last.

[Alagirl]

Butt bar.
a) you are not likely to be able to reach it
B) it’s part of the training.

Of course, I have seen the door go up in rare situation, the person on the inside putting on the bar.

Load horse, butt bar, ties, door.

[beowulf]

For the “second-thinkers” I’d use a lunge line. Clip it to the other side of your trailer, get your horse to self load while tightening the line around their haunch – use the line as a barrier, i use the hinges of the trailer door (where the latch goes) as a fulcrum… when the horse backs up they hit the line and think it is solid like the butt bar.

the line gives me enough time to either do the butt bar or throw up the door. once i get the butt-bar up i am golden but it can be hard to do alone! it’s times like this i miss the stock trailer… it was so much better in so many ways!

i find with our “dirty loader” (think dirty stopper, but with trailers :eek: ) providing him NO outlet and making the loading quick is better and less traumatic than the ‘fights’ associated with bartering, begging, second thinking, etc.

[Foxtrot_s]

Butt bar. But I think you should keep on doing what you are doing - encouraging him stay in and stay there calmly for longer and longer periods of time until there is no rush to do the butt bar or door …he is getting better and better so keep it up. Keep to the side and don’t get trodden on.

Of course, you wouldn’t tie him to keep him in, would you! Guaranteed to cause a big reaction if he backs up and hits the tie.

Lounge line would encourage him to stay put, too, but not if it is an attempt to force him, just as a reminder/encouragement.

I actually hate answering these questions, I don’t know you or your horse.

[2DogsFarm]

BUTT BAR FIRST!
Sorry, don’t mean to “yell” but I load my horses by myself (no other option) and always have the buttbar up & locked before closing the trailer - whether it was a ramp or stepup.

If your horse starts to back out when you are on the other side of a not-yet-latched door and the buttbar is not secured, how can you stop ~1000# from flinging that door right back at you?
Worse if you have a ramp to lift - always the chance horse will back right out flattening you underneath.

Beowulf - I know that method works for a lot of people, but I had a semi-reluctant loader (90% of the time he’d walk right on, then there was the other 10%…) who would SIT on that line or start to go up when he felt the pressure.

[Twiliath]

If you want to see and read about my retraining my horse to load and stay loaded on the trailer when I’m by myself, you can read about it on my blog. I use counterconditioning and desensitization as well as clicker training.

My blog is: www.clickerchronicles.wordpress.com

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=2DogsFarm;8133636]
BUTT BAR FIRST!

Beowulf - I know that method works for a lot of people, but I had a semi-reluctant loader (90% of the time he’d walk right on, then there was the other 10%…) who would SIT on that line or start to go up when he felt the pressure.[/QUOTE]
I used to be in the camp that it didn’t always work… then I found out it is alllll about the method of extraction… so to speak. I have gotten it to work every time for every horse who needed that tool pulled out… and I am not a professional or even a trainer, nor I am an incredibly skilled person… I think it is just a matter of games. See, they are playing games when they see the box. So you just have to outsmart them.

Here is a picture of our dirty loader… over ten years ago, with his unfortunate ‘charge’ trying to convince him there are no monsters in the trailer. :lol:

with him, no amount of wrapping or nudging or poking or sticking or beating would get him on the trailer. we called him the willful planter, oh, if he decides he is not going in all hope is lost. we had everyone from cowboys to sundry trainers, instructors, students, anyone who thought they had god’s given ‘way’ try to load him at various shows (to GO HOME!!!) and he would. not. go.

until i discovered his tick. pressure from the front does NOT work on him - pulling or even the soft encouragement of a whip, he will plant and you will not get him on. the longer the discussion goes on, the worse the conversation. this is a horse that yields to head pressure on the rope all day long.

his tick is that he is not allowed an avenue of escape or a second thought. he is not forced on the trailer but encouraged - sounds silly on paper, i know. we took the line and spent 20m adding pressure to his haunches and releasing it. tantrums were thrown, feet were planted. for him it really is about the quality of conversation… i find if i can steer the ship to port smoothly without seeing any “alternate routes” he will walk right on.

the line is simply there to offer a “route”, or a road, in which he can go. for him, he thinks the road is the only road he can take.

[Hunterkid]

Teach them to be sent into the trailer so you don’t have to walk around. I teach it like lunging, just point where you want to go and they should do it.

I also only let my horses out if I pull on their tail, they never have someone backing them from the front. If they try to get out sooner than I want, they will get a spank on the butt to keep them in, then they will have to stand a few minutes until I will let them out.

I often trailer alone with two horses, so they absolutely have to be well behaved.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=2DogsFarm;8133636]
BUTT BAR FIRST!
Sorry, don’t mean to “yell” but I load my horses by myself (no other option) and always have the buttbar up & locked before closing the trailer - whether it was a ramp or stepup.

If your horse starts to back out when you are on the other side of a not-yet-latched door and the buttbar is not secured, how can you stop ~1000# from flinging that door right back at you?
Worse if you have a ramp to lift - always the chance horse will back right out flattening you underneath.

Beowulf - I know that method works for a lot of people, but I had a semi-reluctant loader (90% of the time he’d walk right on, then there was the other 10%…) who would SIT on that line or start to go up when he felt the pressure.[/QUOTE]

THIS!

For your entertainment (not this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueprRcH5B4

[2DogsFarm]

Beowulf - Yup, Mr 10% was also The Willful Planter when he decided loading was a NoGo.
He grew roots, stargazed…
If I was alone I just had to wait him out, make it a non-issue and he’d eventually walk right on like “What were we waiting for?”
I always allowed myself tons of extra time if I was loading solo. Better arrive early, than sweat making a deadline.

Know what did work for me if I was fortunate enough to have a helper?
Helper stood back about 10’ while I stood at his head, lead slack.
Helper would them ping small stones off his butt, until he decided the “flies” were biting awful bad & perhaps it was nicer in the trailer than out.
:sadsmile: Still miss the bugger, he’s Stage Right in my Profile Pic.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=2DogsFarm;8133710]
Beowulf - Yup, Mr 10% was also The Willful Planter when he decided loading was a NoGo.
He grew roots, stargazed…
If I was alone I just had to wait him out, make it a non-issue and he’d eventually walk right on like “What were we waiting for?”
I always allowed myself tons of extra time if I was loading solo. Better arrive early, than sweat making a deadline.

Know what did work for me if I was fortunate enough to have a helper?
Helper stood back about 10’ while I stood at his head, lead slack.
Helper would them ping small stones off his butt, until he decided the “flies” were biting awful bad & perhaps it was nicer in the trailer than out.
:sadsmile: Still miss the bugger, he’s Stage Right in my Profile Pic.[/QUOTE]

:lol: flies! hah! the ingenuity we come up with when horses say ‘no’ cracks me up.

[roseymare]

I am going to be a bit of a desenter in this thread. The horse needs to get over the running out phase before you worry about the butt bar. And it also depends on where your butt bar is in relation to the back of the trailer. If there is a chance that the horse can get its hind legs out of the trailer and on the ground with the butt bar up then you absolutely cannot put up the butt bar until the horse will stand mannerly in the trailer otherwise you will be in a pickle. You will not be able to undo a butt bar if there is pressure on it and a horse is panicking.
I agree you need to train you horse to accept the butt bar up before you shut the door BUT you cannot rush the issue on a bad loader that needs retrained. I am sure that is what most are suggesting.

[roseymare]

We had a horse once that woke up in a new world every day! In order to load him you had to pick up his foot and put it in the trailer because he could not figure out how high he needed to pick up his feet. He would stand and start to pick up his foot and never get it high enough. So you would have to show him with a front and then a back foot. He was not scared or unwilling just stupid. He sure was pretty though!

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8133764]
He was not scared or unwilling just stupid. He sure was pretty though![/QUOTE]

he doesn’t sound stupid so much as clever enough to get you to do all the work for him! :lol:

[janedoe726]

[QUOTE=Hunterkid;8133687]
Teach them to be sent into the trailer so you don’t have to walk around. I teach it like lunging, just point where you want to go and they should do it.

I also only let my horses out if I pull on their tail, they never have someone backing them from the front. If they try to get out sooner than I want, they will get a spank on the butt to keep them in, then they will have to stand a few minutes until I will let them out.

I often trailer alone with two horses, so they absolutely have to be well behaved.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I do! Not hard to teach as long as you are consistent.

[jawa]

ALWAYS BUTT BAR FIRST!!

Some neighbors had a pony that wasn’t a great loader. They tried to get the ramp up before the pony backed out. It didn’t work. The pony pushed back on the ramp causing the ramp to come down on the husband’s leg breaking it.

I want my horse to approach the trailer quietly and straight. I want him to halt prior to stepping on the trailer. This allows you that one last inspection before you commit your horse. I throw the lead over his neck and tell him to load. He is to stand without backing while I get the butt bar up and the door closed. I then go to his head a tie him and shut the door.

For getting off I untie his head and throw the rope over his neck. I open the back door/ramp and go to the side to indo the butt bar. If he anticipates and starts backing before I have asked he gets a hard smack and we try again. Once the butt bar is down I pull on his tail and tell him to back.

I trailer alone almost all of the time. Mine HAVE to be trust worthy self loaders and unloaders.

[Txhorsedreamer]

Thanks everyone for your time to respond.

The 2 things that I fear have been mentioned that I am trying to avoid and that is the door coming back at me right as it’s about to latch or him panicking against the butt bar and some freak accident happening. I do not think he could get his haunches under it but you never know with these horses.

I can latch the butt bar across after the door has been closed. I have the regular 2 doors and also a ramp that was added and that goes up and latches after the doors.

I’ll keep working with his patience in standing. I can try the whip as a practice barrier and teach him to respect that. Also the tail thing as a cue to back is a good idea. I have done that before many times but not exclusively so I will see if he can learn that. If he backs up and I thwack him once with the whip he will usually stop backing and step forward again but sometimes he has that momentum and it just makes things worse.

I can send him in without going in the other side with him and have even successfully latched the door behind him but I feel that it was lucky! I did not do that today but I like to practice all kinds of ways and I will definitely get him sending in without me from both directions next time I work with him now that I feel he is getting the confidence I wanted for him.

Thank you for the suggestions. He sure did seem to be the most relaxed about it all today so I know it will just get better.

[candyappy]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8133759]
I am going to be a bit of a desenter in this thread. The horse needs to get over the running out phase before you worry about the butt bar. And it also depends on where your butt bar is in relation to the back of the trailer. If there is a chance that the horse can get its hind legs out of the trailer and on the ground with the butt bar up then you absolutely cannot put up the butt bar until the horse will stand mannerly in the trailer otherwise you will be in a pickle. You will not be able to undo a butt bar if there is pressure on it and a horse is panicking.
I agree you need to train you horse to accept the butt bar up before you shut the door BUT you cannot rush the issue on a bad loader that needs retrained. I am sure that is what most are suggesting.[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right.

OP keep working on your horse before you worry about doors and butt bars.

Load and unload him so many times that he gets bored stiff. When he will stand calmly until you ask him to back out, then you can start on the butt bar and the door.

Sounds like you are doing a great job. Don’t be in a hurry now!

[showidaho]

Teach him to self load. There are instructional videos all over youtube if you are unfamiliar with the concept. If you are alone that’s the only safe way to do it. Once loaded, butt bar, then ramp/door.