Straightness and the wiggly horse

[Rosie_B]

Hi guys

With all the horses I’ve ridden except for Bliss, they obviously had a strong/tight side, and a weaker/looser side. If you consider the horse is naturally shaped like a banana, the strong side has shortrer, tighter muscles (the inside of the banana) and the weak side has longer, looser muscles (the outside). Going to the strong side, the horse wants you to take more contact on the inside, and will likely fall out the outside shoulder a bit. Going to the weak side, the horse wants to take more contact on the outside (so he can keep those strong muscles contracted), and will fall in on the inside shoulder. Going either direction, the horse wants you to keep stronger contact on the rein on the side of which he is stronger, and will be less accepting of contact on the weaker side. On the stronger side, the hing leg carries more of the weight, which causes the horse to fall onto the opposite shoulder. This weaker hind leg is straighter and stiffer and doesn’t want to flex as much as the other one, although it is good at pushing out behind.

If your horse is strong on the left side and weak on the right, the left rein contact will always be heavier, SI and renvers will be easier to the right, and travers and halfpass easier to the left. For that reason, to help develop the strength in the weak side and the flexibility in the strong side, it’s a good idea to ride lots of SI left and lots of travers right. This helps to develop the carrying power of the weaker right hind, and the pushing power of the stronger L hind.

Enter Bliss. Bliss can quite happily fall in (or out) going to either direction, and quite often does fall both in and out on the same circle. We’re not doing much lateral work because of the straightness issues, but it’s easiest for him to collect/balance the canter on the right rein, and easier for him to push powerfully forward in canter on the left rein. He also tends to be heavier on the L rein, but is quite accepting of the right rein. The right side of his mouth consistently has more foam than the left. Some of this points to him being stronger L, but like I said he can fall in or out going either direction. What I’ve been trying to do is ride the horse I have at the moment, and if he’s falling out I push him in, or if he’s falling in I push him out, regardless of which direction we’re going. If at the end of the ride he feels even or nearly even on the reins, has almost as much foam L as R, and will change directions on figures smoothly with no loss of balance, it’s been a successful ride.

Am I approaching this the right way? Do any of you guys have success stories about your wiggly horses? TIA!!

[merrygoround]

I have found that the more forward you can get therm the less wiggling there is. A The main purpose of lateral work s to help straighten a horse, make him equally strong on both sides, so I would say that you are approaching it the right way.

This is a horse that you put between your legs, put your legs on a track, and make sure that he stays between them, using what ever part of your leg you need to keep him there.

[Flashymover]

I just worked through this problem with my 5 year old gelding. Forward definitely is a key but I also changed his bit from a loose ring KK to an eggbutt single jointed and that helped tremendously.

[MysticOakRanch]

Agree, got to ride them with forward energy. My little mare was like this for a while - totally wiggly and behind the contact. It took a while, but shoulder fore, leg yield, and forward energy are your friends!

[Rosie_B]

Thank-you! Riding him as forward as I can in balance is a big piece of it too… Thanks for that reminder.

I am leery of doing any SF at this point because it’s too easy for him to lose the forward and become crooked, and then I have to get into fixing problems again. So I am just trying to keep him between rein and legs in the basic exercises. I guess I’m trying to make it crystal clear for him that 1) he has to go forward and 2) He needs to go straight (as he can), and until these basics are in place I feel like any attempt at lateral work will come at the expense of these…

[cnm161]

I love shoulder-fore, but you may only be able to do (very) short pieces. Example of how I start:

1. Leaving the corner going down the long side: begin SF
2. As soon as any imbalance creeps its way in, turn onto 15m or 18m circle (however much room you have), reestablish the correct tempo and groundcover.
3. Rinse, repeat.

You can also vary it by:

1. As above
2. Cross diagonal in lengthened trot to recover ground-cover.
3. Introduce SF again.
4. Repeat as necessary.

I wouldn’t drill it, but it’s worth touching on once or twice in a ride to say “Yes, horse, I can ask you to put the pieces together and stay there for a couple strides.”

[piedmontfields]

Remember, there is a big difference between shoulder-fore and shoulder in. If he can be “straight” on a 15 m trot circle, he is very capable of doing SF down the long side.

I have a very wiggly horse. If not supported, she can feel like a ping pong ball bouncing between the aids! My mantra is to keep her nose in the middle of her chest–regardless of what we are doing.

p.s. Part of our challenge last year was getting her to “carry” her straightness even with less support. But I find that is a bit of a moving goal, depending on how we are doing.

[kashmere]

What about riding out on roads/trails? I find that, in a ring, I can get too focused on inside/outside etc. If you have access to safe roads and trails, you can go straight for ages, with the bonus of variable footing which often asks for more precise balance from the horse without your having to do anything. If you can work in some long, slow, gradual hills all the better.

Straightness and strength really go hand in hand, and I’ve always found huge benefits to just getting out of the ring and going in straight lines. My current horse is a retrain/project horse with a mystery past and I’m just starting to do some baby lateral work with her. She can get fussy/bulge-y/wiggly in the ring, but we’ve gotten some of our best leg yields just going from one side of the road to the other (very safe, quite, country dirt road).

[Maude]

I have one of these. She is 9 and almost too supple. What I’ve found is riding straight and forward. She bends so easily I really don’t work on that too much. I will think I’m forward enough but when my instructor pushes me just beyond that point my horse’s hind end really kicks in and I can feel it. Then she’s straight and the wiggle dissapears.

[Rosie_B]

Thanks guys! This is very helpful. He goes in an eggbutt and it seems to work well for him.

That’s the thing peidmont - He is only just getting to the point where he can carry himself straight on a 15m circle with the power he needs to have. I wasted a lot of time noodling around with him not forward enough so now I am backtracking and rebuilding what I should have had from the beginning.

kashmere - no safe trails unfortunately. There are lots of offroad vehicles here and they go bombing around at high speeds. We do have a long driveway though, and I ride him up and down and do leg yeild zig zags.

Maude - this is the lightbulb that goes off every time I ride with my instructor. lol. Except Bliss isn’t particularly supple yet in his power gaits, but it’s coming…

[kashmere]

Ahh that’s too bad! We had an interesting encounter with some skidoos the other day - trails certainly can be a gamble!

[mp]

“Wiggling” also known as “evasions.” I have lived this for the last 4+ years. Before that, I was blissfully unaware, as I wasn’t riding dressage and you can do pretty well in breed shows without really having your horse engaged.

Forward is your friend. Forward into contact. Forward to transitions – up or down. Forward into the halt. Once you get him in front of your leg and forward, he won’t have room to do all that wiggling.

One more thought: Be sure you engage the body AND the mind. If I put my inside leg on my horse, his inside ear should flick back to me to say “yes?”

If it doesn’t, he’s getting ready to tune me out and the key is to catch him before he does or he’ll slow down in a turn, not make a good transition when I ask, etc etc etc

[netg]

I find with my wiggly monster, if he’s wiggly, he’s behind my leg. When he is in front of my leg he has about 5x as much power, but it’s easily accessible and under control, and he goes straight unless I ask him to bend.

Now, my guy is quite possibly an exception and I haven’t worked with other wiggly horses, but forward meaning engaged, in front of the leg, longer and possibly even slower strides, makes life EASY.

[SendenHorse]

Rosie, I posted on the 8 week thread about wiggles.
Ryeissa

[raff]

[QUOTE=Rosie B;8563497]
Hi guys

With all the horses I’ve ridden except for Bliss, they obviously had a strong/tight side, and a weaker/looser side. If you consider the horse is naturally shaped like a banana, the strong side has shortrer, tighter muscles (the inside of the banana) and the weak side has longer, looser muscles (the outside). Going to the strong side, the horse wants you to take more contact on the inside, and will likely fall out the outside shoulder a bit.

Am I approaching this the right way? Do any of you guys have success stories about your wiggly horses? TIA!![/QUOTE]

Rosie, I think taking more contact on the contracted side exacerbates the problem and pushes the horse further onto the outside shoulder.
The outside aids control the outside shoulder,the outside rein should put the shoulder in alignment again,and as others pointed out, ride more forward.
Flexing to the outside for a few strides is helpful to re align the shoulders, and very clear to a youngster, that evolves into a little close of the hand/elbow later.
Pushing and pulling a wobbly horse to try and straighten makes more wobblyness.

[Rosie_B]

Thank-you guys, this is very helpful.

mp - that’s an interesting thought about the inside ear. He sometimes tunes me out a bit so I need to remember this.

Senden, Bliss doesn’t usually rush but when he does I slow him down into a steady tempo first and then build the trot back up from that in balance. This was what I had to do in my ride yesterday.

raff - you are exactly right… in the scenario I described if the typical horse I’d want to take a little more contact on the side they are naturally light on and try to keep them lighter on the heavier rein.

But with Bliss, he can be heavy on the inside rein and be falling in at the same time, so counter flexing doesn’t help that much on it’s own, and I completely agree that pulling a wobbly horse around is counter productive. Yesterday he was leaning in on the left and rather than counter flex I just had a steady contact on the right and asked him to leg yeild out a couple steps and that really helped.

Here’s some video from Feb 28th for context:

https://youtu.be/p8nOfKdQicY

As you can see, I am trying to keep him straight on the right rein and am counterflexing somewhat. I was quite happy with how he was feeling that day.

[Reddfox]

Rosie, my young guy is an absolute wiggle worm, which is a new problem for me, but he is improving by leaps and bounds.

What is working for us:
Forward, but in a bit of a slower, more powerful tempo.

Lots of circles, we were holding off doing SI and SF until we can get a little more positive tension in him.

Leg yields, to and away from the wall. Typically, I don’t do a lot of leg yields away from the wall, but in his case, it’s worked beautifully. I don’t have to really touch the bit, my legs get him aligned and into the outside rein.

Counter canter loops - again, not something I’d usually go to this early, but doing very, very shallow loops have been golden for him. I have to make sure he has a moment of straight in the loop so that he doesn’t dive back to the wall.

I try to keep very steady, inviting contact with him, I don’t go to the bridle if he gets heavy. I align him back up with my legs (a leg yield, or a circle) - it’s too easy for him to just collapse in the neck if I use the reins too much, and I want him even in both reins. That is NOT to say that I don’t use h/h… I do, lots of them, but they tend to be on both reins, not unilateral at this point.

In circles, I try not to drive too much, I use my outside aids to keep him aligned, bu if I really drive him through circles, he breaks apart.

As he’s progressed, we’ve been able to push him out a bit more, and every day feels better and better. We’ve finally been able to start some SI with him, and it felt beautiful. Into both reins and not collapsing at all.

[raff]

He’s lovely Rosie, you must be very pleased with him !
If he’s flexed left, heavy in the left rein, and falling left he must be either twisting his nose to the outside or having a little S shape in his neck? If as I assume your reins are even?
Before you worry about it too much, one thing I noticed is that your saddle seems a bit too far up his shoulder, this can be uncomfortable and cause the horse to do funny little things to cope. Could that be something do you think?
If that isn’t it, i’d definitely work on getting flexion behind the jaw so you can see his inside eyelashes and having him come well around the inside leg. Leg yielding is a start, and shoulder fore is better. Transitions in and out of trot will be diagnostic too.
The lighting on the left wasn’t fantastic, but I thought I might have seen a bit of a bulge on the top third of the left side of the neck. It’s hard at this stage to fix everything without bothering the horse and making it a negative experience for him and these problems often resolve naturally with greater strength and balance over the hindquarters anyway. You’re doing a nice job

[Rosie_B]

Thank-you Reddfox - your experiences give me lots to think about. Your horse sounds much like Bliss, and I think part of our problem is that I am not effective enough with my leg (and he’s learned to tune me out a bit), and so I turn to the hand, which of course is counter productive. I love your description of keeping him steady with the legs and using the hands together. I’ll think about that in my ride tomorrow.

And thank-you raff. I am very pleased with him but I wish I was a better rider as I know these issues are partially due to my lack of experience and due to trying to work on my own (mistake!). Oh well, live and learn!

I think you nailed it though - if we are going left and I am keeping a good connection on the right rein and he’s heavy on the left rein, it’s because he’s tilting his nose to the right! I totally caught him doing that in my ride today. I’m not sure the ‘correct’ way to fix that, but I gave a fairly strong ‘no-you-don’t!’ half halt on the left rein and when he softened I immediately softened and voila - he immediately felt 10x more connected and straighter and I could be soft on the L rein again. Any thoughts on the best way to correct tilting?

Re. the video, going to the left I was riding him with quite a bit of counter flexion to get him more respectful of the outside aids. So yes, he was absolutely bending out a little (and probably tilting a bit too), so I’m not surprised you see a bulge. My instructor was having me ride him like that to keep the outside shoulder more in line, but agreed in an ideal world he’d need more bend to the inside. What you see there is a specific fix to a specific problem in action… I found it really helped with the connection and the balance even though it wasn’t perfect. You are totally right - you need to pick one thing at a time and make improvement there rather than trying to fix everything at once. Thanks again for your nice comments, he’s pretty special and I loff him!

Re. the saddle - it’s a possibility. I’ve had the fit checked recently and it seems good. But this is an interim saddle until he’s more mature physically and until I have more resources to devote to finding a perfect fit.

[Reddfox]

^ Yes, with gumby horses, their default seems to be to give a lot of neck bend or to collapse. Even into the hand, and make sure that they are moving away from the leg. If you do need to go to a unilateral hh for a split second, get in, get out and do not throw away the outside rein. But, I find that the more I get Miro’s body yielding, the connection works itself out up front.