Strange bit, need identification

That strap does not serve the same purpose as a lip strap; it serves the same purpose as a slobber bar.

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I stand corrected, I’m sorry! I totally forgot about the curb chain aspect, I learned that in PC a hundred years ago but I guess I filed out away in the archives. I was thinking only in terms of limiting lateral rotation, which as you said isn’t the case.

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I agree. That bit’s labeling by the seller is what happens when you have people who aren’t knowledgeable putting your web site catalog together. It doesn’t even fit the description that they’ve got with it.

LOL. I know. I suffered from severe cognitive dissonance years ago when I was first exposed to western bits and was told that a bit that was absolutely, beyond the shadow of a doubt, a curb bit was called a snaffle because it had a jointed mouthpiece. Argentine snaffle, Tom Thumb snaffle…

And on a tangent, there was a thread here a long time ago where great confusion and disagreement ensued in a discussion of the “Tom Thumb bit” because half the people were talking about the traditional English Tom Thumb pelham and half were talking about the western Tom Thumb snaffle - which are two very different bits. :grinning:

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I think if you ask people what the lip strap is for, many will say it is for limiting shank rotation. And some will say it’s to keep the horse from grabbing one of the shanks or that it’s the same thing as a bit hobble.

But, as far as my 1960’s riding lessons at the hunt club and any of the reading and searching that I’ve done says, the original purpose was simply to keep the curb chain from coming off the hooks and getting lost and to help keep the curb chain from riding up when you apply rein pressure.

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The lip strap is IMPORTANT.

The curb chain goes in the curb groove and the bone there is smooth from side to side and front to back, and the curb chain fits nicely there. However if the curb chain moves back so it bears against the sharp lower jaw bones it is really painful to the horse, and when it happened to me the horse got really restive and head flinging.

This is the reason why I am totally against using a flash strap/Micklem chin strap/dropped or figure-8 noseband with any bit set up that has a curb chain. With the above listed the chin strap goes in the curb groove, and the bit/bits are moved up in the horse’s mouth FORCING the curb chain to act against the sharp, unpadded lower jaw bones. I HATE to imagine the pain these horses are in when their riders take strong contact. Tight nosebands, curb chain up on the sharp jaw bones, no ability to open the mouth to relieve any of the pressure/pain, the poor, poor horses.

The proper place for the curb bit mouthpiece is right above the curb groove, when the bit is there the curb chain in a regular 5" shank Weymouth curb bit falls and rests in the curb groove, completely avoiding the sharp lower jaw bones, and the lip strap keeps the curb chain in the right place for the greater comfort of the horse. This leaves in most horses room enough for the bridoon so there needs to be at most one wrinkle which means that the horse’s poll is not subject to great, unrelenting pressure. Of course the curb chain has to be loose enough to put two fingers side to side horizontally. With the bits set up like this the horses tend to be quite comfortable with the double bridle and the horse does not get upset because its head HURTS in several places.

Most hunt seat riding teachers have little or no training with the proper position of the double bridle bits in the horse’s mouth. Most hunt seat riding teachers seem to have never been educated that the curb chain belongs in the curb groove, not up on the super sensitive sharp lower jaw bone.

The same with the Pelham, most nowadays seem to fitted in the horse’s mouth like it is a snaffle mouthpiece instead of a curb bit. Doing this means that the curb chain is up over the sharp lower jaw bones causing the horses great discomfort. For the curb chain to work right the Pelham mouthpiece, like any curb mouthpiece, needs to be right above the curb groove.

I have had to educate my riding teachers about this. They definitely see my rationale when the horses proceed around the ring peacefully, relaxed and striding freely forward, keeping their mouths closed and their nose in front of vertical, cheerfully obeying my LIGHT rein aids. This is why the horses will allow me to keep contact with just the curb bit, since my contact is light and the bit is in the right place some of the horses act like my contact with the Weymouth curb is as comfortable or more comfortable than my contact with the bridoon.

If your curb bit has the little lip strap eyelets, get and use the lip strap. The curb bit works so much better when one is on an English curb bit.

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Then “people” don’t know what they are talking about. Bits (curb or pelham) that have a lip strap DO NOT HAVE shanks that rotate.

That would be the purpose of a bit hobble on a loose shank western bit. The curb strap or chain doesn’t attach to it.

I found myself in the same situation a few months back on a FB group. Someone commented about the bit a horse was wearing and called it harsh. To my eye, it was just a simple rubber mouth Tom Thumb. There was much back and forth about Tom Thumbs versus Pelhams, with both parties scratching their head before I realized that they were UK and Australian. To add to the confusion, apparently there is a big distinction between the two between UK, AUS, and US.

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Maybe the distinction should be between the UK, AUS and NA. Personally I’ve never heard of a pelham referred to as a Tom Thumb here in Canada (or at least this part of Canada), it’s normally been used in reference to the western type variety of bit.

I have, in Quebec/Ontario. It’s used to refer to a pelham with short cheeks.

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Maybe it depends on what discipline you’re involved in then, though I do have to admit most of the books on riding and horses I read growing up, were British in origin, and I don’t recall any of them referring to a pelham as a Tom Thumb. :woman_shrugging:

Even in the US there is a big distinction between “English” riders (for whom a Tom Thumb is a pelham with short shanks) and “Western” riders (for whom a Tom Thumb is some kind of jointed curb).

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Grew up in the UK, first I heard of a Tom Thumb was here, and referring to the western bit, that is a jointed curb, not a snaffle.

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I’ve usually seen the western bit like this:
image

There seems to be a greater variety now, much more balanced looking.

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That is the western Tom Thumb. This is the US English Tom Thumb pelham:

And because I was curious, I Googled to see what a Tom Thumb was in the UK and found this, which looks like some kind of gag:

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I know that is a western Tom Thumb. I thought that was clear in my response to KBC? I know what a Pelham is as well. I’ve just never seen them referred to as a Tom Thumb except for on a long ago thread here. That last bit you posted looks like something that would be called an Argentine bit by some.

Didn’t mean to imply that you didn’t. Just providing additional info and clarity for those who are reading along.

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It would seem that the elongated snaffle rings would enable the curb chain more ‘room’, more ‘play’, since it could slide along the ring moreso than in a conventional pelham.

No idea what it’s called tho.

The other thing the original bit could be is a poor copy of a regular pelham, maybe mixed with a little of a butterfly bit? I’ve seen some very strange copies of bits made by Pakistani companies. There was one company that was quite aggressive about joining horse-related FB groups a while back that had some weird looking takes on regular bits, as well as dragon-embellished bits, etc.

Don’t think so, as the hooks for the curb chain go on the uppermost rings, where the bit is hung from the cheek pieces of the bridle. :slight_smile:

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