Strengthening Crooked Pelvis + Poor Posture

[cocohooves]

No, not talking about myself in this instance… but should I be?

PART I: The Background

A LOT of background on the situation, bear with me, there’s lots to unpack with this horse. I have a 4 year old Thoroughbred mare (bought unstarted from breeder, never trained or raced) who has been my first horse without a major health problem… until now. I had the vet come out and do a Coggins test and, before she even took out the needle, looked at Lela’s bony hind end and went “something’s off”. It turns out Lela’s entire pelvis is titlted such that the right side of her ribcage sticks out more than the left - and pretty noticeably so. I don’t have photos currently, but I may take some tomorrow. It’s interesting to see, if a little gross. I’ve been fighting to put weight on her after she came back thin from the trainer’s, so I attributed this boniness to her general… well, boniness. I was wrong Cue the violins.

No diagnostic testing or x-rays or ultrasound or what have you yet, just observation with the naked eye, so I can’t provide many details. We have no idea why it’s crooked. Lela had a very difficult birth with a red bag and issues with her size, and vet said perhaps her pelvis was broken in the process, but I don’t think that’s likely. Overall, Lela is completely sound, not in any sort of pain, and a springy mover (springy enough that the vet also thought she was neurologic the first time she saw her - tests proved otherwise). Vet said due to this issue, she will likely never be able to jump more than 3 feet and will likely develop arthritis in her spine. There’s also a good chance she will never be able to be safely bred. I’m a little disappointed, moreso for Lela herself, but also worried about her getting that achey back, even though it may be a decade or so away. I want to prevent that and/or fend it off however I can.

Complicating the complications, Lela carries herself terribly. She’s lazy. She drops her back, camps under, slouches, pops her belly out. She can go fast and energetic, but prefers to go slow and droop her lip. Quite possibly the worst Thoroughbred ever. She’s a sorry sight, honestly. I rinse pee off her hind feet every day because she can’t even be bothered to properly assume the stance. I brought it up to the vet as a “aha! Now I see why my horse can’t pee right! It was her pelvis all along!” and the vet shook her head and said “could be part of it, but the biggest issue if your horse is lazy”. Ouch. I’m relieved, in a way, but… ouch.

PART II: The Situation

The vet says the best way I can help keep Lela healthy is to immediately start working on proper frame and muscling. She suggested starting into dressage or, if I can’t find a trainer (I can’t - hello, rural Montana, USA), getting some gadgets like tie downs and side reins to encourage her into frame so we can start working the muscles she doesn’t have. I’ve always been leery of gadgets, but I’ll be the first to admit that I am not versed in any form of higher riding, though I truly hope to be soon. I’ve never used gadgets and I know how quick it can go bad in the wrong hands. I have a surcingle and can get my hands on side reins. It’s just… sigh. Y’know.

Further complicating the situation, I have yet to find a bit that Lela does not despise and/or responds in. Could be my hands (god, I hope not), but it also seems she doesn’t get along with single joint snaffles. I hope to experiment with borrowed bits Monday. Until then, Lela is being ridden in a bosal - her fifth bosal ride will be tomorrow. Full cowpony. Her ancestors are rolling in their graves, I’m sure. She does not go into frame in the bosal, which I know is my fault. I do not have a trainer currently that can kick my butt/threaten me/tell me I look like a monkey, and in fear of doing Lela harm, I have been going on leisurely trail rides and saving real work for in the round pen when I’m on the ground and can see her move.

We are moving barns next month (hence the Coggins), where there will be a dressage trainer on site. Cross your fingers I can afford it. Fingers AND toes, actually.

PART III: The Bragging About What I Feed My Horse (So You Know I’m Not Starving Her And She Can Actually Build Muscle)

Daily, Lela gets 5 pounds of Equis Element, a 40% fat supplement, 6 oz. (a lot) of wheat germ oil, and about 12 oz. of rice bran (I KNOW that’s a lot, I’m desperate here), split into two meals. She’s getting proper amount of mid-quality grass/alfalfa hay daily and turned out on a sizeable dry lot with two other horses. She’s not living large, but she’s happy and has put on about 50 pounds. Vet says she’s growing very quickly, almost too quickly, so she’s burning off everything I (a poor college student and fool who decided to bring a horse to college) throw at her. I see her twice a day.

PART IV: Solutions?

a. Have you ever dealt with a horse with a very crooked pelvis or similar defect? I looked up some posts on the forum about it, but haven’t found quite my situation. Lela is quite extreme.

b. Do you have suggestions for exercises that can help her round and carry herself sooner than later? I know of course she can be taught to carry herself through proper training, which takes months upon years. I’m not looking for “super quick miracle fixes”, but something that’s simpler, easier, and preferably observable to me on the ground, as I do not yet trust myself in the saddle without someone/a mirror to see how I’m riding.

c. I’ve looked into chiro. Few chiropractors here that are trustworthy; may give it a shot some day soon. No physiotherapists within 600 miles or more. Anything you would suggest I could do to lift her up and maybe pop a couple of things every day? Tricks and tools of the trade?

PART V: Thanks for your time and energy.

Thank you. I mean it. I just want my horse to have a good life with good posture and good riding. If I can keep down costs while doing it, even better, lol.

[S1969]

I would opt for further diagnostics. It’s possible that there is nothing that can be done to improve her conformation and it’s also possible that she has an injury that needs treatment.

“Can’t pee right” does not sound like a condition that is going to be fixed with exercises. If she had/has a broken pelvis you really need to know what it looks like. How long have you had this horse? I’m thinking the horse may have had a recent injury, and this is not at all a birth related injury.

The last thing I would do is start using gadgets to try to “straighten” it.

[JB]

"getting some gadgets like tie downs and side reins to encourage her into frame " :eek: :eek: :no: :no:

Nope and more nope. Your vet is focused on entirely the wrong end of the horse.

She IS right in that she needs to be worked correctly, and since she’s young still and has an issue, slowly. Lots of walking and trotting, cantering only to do transitions.

I would be looking to find a really good chiropractor to evaluate her. And I mean GOOD. One that won’t just go right to working on her, one who won’t assume everything is fixable.

Without pictures it’s really hard to even speculate whether this is a from-birth issue, or much newer than that.

The peeing thing sounds odd. Does she park out at all, or widen her legs? My mare does both. I guess I’m not able to picture how she’s peeing on her feet - when my mare pees, it doesn’t just fall straight down, it shoots out at least a little (and sometimes a lot if she’s been holding it).

Bits - Myler Comfort Snaffle, give it a try. No links, just swivels.

The bit, or bosal, or whatever, is not what gets her into a frame. It’s first her acceptance of, and then her seeking of contact, and pushing her body from behind as opposed to pulling herself along, which “frames” the horse (I much prefer “outline” to frame).

[tipzythegreat]

I would also be in the camp that there’s likely something active causing her pelvis to have tipped.

I would dare to say nobody voluntarily pees on oneself. I would suspect she can’t park out and NOT pee on herself. So, she just pees on herself. I’d rather pee on myself than hurt my back by parking out so as to avoid it.

My gelding has a tipped pelvis. I can look at his conformation shots from when I bought him and it’s not crooked in those pictures. He has SI pain and proximal suspensory ligament injuries (chicken or egg?). I’ve known his pelvis has been tipped. And that he dragged one foot. My trainers said ‘side reins and more leg’ but as it turns out, something was hurting him and moving crooked was how he coped. He wasn’t “just lazy” and it was more than it being “hard for him”

The chiro came out and said he had ribs out along with an incredible amount of other things. So I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve got something hind-end going on in your girl. I can feel my horse bulge through his barrel when I’m riding

You should have a lameness vet out to check her out. She needs to have the pain/problem corrected before you force her into a frame and into using herself. You may just make it worse, otherwise.

Honestly if you can spring for a full body scan, I’d do it. My guess is she has something going on with her spine. My horse was also just “lazy” and now that he’s feeling better, he moves forward WILLINGLY and effortlessly in comparison.

[Dr_Doolittle]

Your vet really said “she can’t pee right because she’s lazy?”

:eek:

[JB]

Well, the vet also said to use tie downs or draw reins to get a good frame, so… ::shrug::

[beowulf]

Can you get some pictures and some video, so we have a general idea of what we are working with?

It’s possible the issues peeing, the way she moves, and the offset pelvis are all related to each other… but it’s also possible they are not.

With mares it’s not always unusual that you get pee scald - they lack the equipment required to aim, sort of…

A broken pelvis is not the end of the world depending on where it was. My gelding broke his pelvis in 3 places and is doing BN/N eventing + dressage. It takes a lot of good, careful conditioning – and time, if it is something besides a pelvic wing fracture.

I’m with JB, get a good chiropractor.

In the meantime start doing these exercises in hand. If your mare cannot do them, that’s a pretty good idea there is something active/long term prohibiting her from using her body correctly. These may be difficult at first, but any horse of a reasonably sound body should be capable of doing them.

Carrot stretches - all in the repetition of 3 reps, hold for 5 seconds. The best treats for these are high reward treats - I use fig newtons, split into 4.

Chin To Chest:
Stretches topline muscles. Horses that have difficulty with this exercise may have neck or back pain.

Nose To Flank (where your foot rests, when mounted)
Stretches neck, shoulder, improves flexibility of neck + spine - horses with issues here have front end lameness/soreness, or neck/poll/atlas problems

Nose To Hip/Stifle
Same as above - neck, topline, but also stretches ribcage muscles and back - horses that have issues here may have back, neck, or hip problems

Back Up 10 Steps
If necessary, break into sets of 5. Must be straight back, no wiggling. Gets better with time. Watch stifles and hips. horses with stifle and pelvic issues have trouble with this exercise

5 Walk Poles In A Row
Set up somewhere that is easy to walk over but not in the way of daily schooling. Any time you are walking, walk over these, at least a minimum for 5x per session. This will strengthen stifles, obliques, and pelvis/hindquarters. \

There are others, but these are a staple in my program.

[streamline]

I also have a TB with a completely out of line spine/pelvis etc. It’s ugly to look at.

OP I’d be tempted to get a good lameness vet. X rays. A really good chiro and learn some very basic horse stretches on top of that (someone else already posted)

What helped my funny looking horse was turnout 24/7, which isn’t feasible for everyone/every horse. Lots of hill work and lots of walking/trotting. Even then it was almost two years to get this horse sound.

My main jr mount also had a funny banana shaped back… had a classic hunters bump / funny SI joint. We got a really good vet who also did chiropractic work out and that was a 6+ month rehab to get that horse sound. She basically looked at me (little 14 year old me) and my gramma and said ‘you might as well put this horse down I don’t think we will last you til college) funny I never went to college. I rode that horse til I was 20 and moved away. He was retired for about a year before he coliced horribly. He evented training level a few times and then I used him as a practice horse for 3’ stuff and no stirrups.

Anyway.

[KJT]

I would also opt for further diagnostics. Hopefully, the folks at your new barn will have some good connections. It’s tough in rural settings. Lela needs to have the pain/problem sorted out before she’s asked to use herself correctly. Once you’ve got the OK to get her working and know more of what you’re dealing with, here’s my two cents:

For building muscle:
I third the carrot stretches.

Also, lunging on big circles up and down the arena length. As many days a week as you can manage, maybe 15 minutes each session. Walk or trot. No trudging along or pokey pony impersonations. Keep her going energetically forward by clucking, wiggling the lunge whip, voice cues, whatever works for the horse. Just enough energy to not break gait, unless you ask for it.

No side reins, chambons, or other gadgets needed; just relaxed-but-purposeful gaits. And lots of patience. LOTS. This is slow and tedious work, but you will see results. And she’ll eventually find that her new stretchy and soft gaits are her happy places.

After a few weeks of lunging only, maybe ride and ask for the same purposeful-but-relaxed walk/trot. Keeping a decent contact and encouraging her to reach towards the bit more and more. Again, this is slow and tedious work, but it is so, so cool to see their progress. Get someone to video the work every few weeks, if you can.

Bit suggestions: I switched to a solid rubber bit for an older mare I’m keeping in work for her owner. Previous bit (loose ring French link) had too much baggage from the previous rider and mare was constantly kind of shaking it in her mouth whenever she got worried I was going to ask for anything. No matter how softly I asked. Instructor suggested a rubber bit and mare is now a happy camper who gives me a light-but-there constant contact.

My friend is having good results with a leather bit for her mare. Both available (although leather is spendy) from online sources.

Good luck with the new barn and figuring out how best to care for Lela. She’s lucky to have you.

[khall]

Take a look at Karen Rohlf’s video classroom. A monthly subscription with some very good videos on improving the biomechanics of the horse.

[S1969]

Depending on how long you have owned this horse I would be cautious about doing DIY physical therapy. I asked above, but asking again - how long have you owned this horse?

My fear would be that you’ve been sold a horse with a recent pelvic fracture.

[cocohooves]

Hi again! Thank you all so much for your input, stories, and suggestions. An update from me: I took some (bad) photos this morning and some (slightly better) photos this evening, after we went on an hour long trail ride. She had no problems going up or down hills, especially up, and seemed to be using her hind just fine when powering along. However, I’m in my western saddle, and I’m sure it’s much harder to tell if the horse is engaging their hind through all that leather. For me, at least.

She did all of the suggested stretches with little issue, though reaching her nose to her stifle was a bit clumsy, especially on the left side. She’s never done it before, so it may be inexperience. Thank you so much for the suggestions!

The good news is I have a vet/licensed chiropractor scheduled to come out the 13th and do an exam. I may let her rest up until then, though I’d love to ride. I’m leaving to the UK on the 14th and won’t be able to see her again until the 1st, so I’m a little antsy about leaving her be, but in the long run it can only set her training back a little. I’ve got time, I suppose. I’ll post results from that when the time comes.

Now, on to the details you guys are interested in!

• I’ve owned Lela for about 2 and a half years nows, since she was 2. I had a lameness vet come out and examine an inflamed injury on her hock about a year ago, and she passed sound with flying colors. I didn’t take a video of her movement today, but attached below is a Youtube link of her moving when she was 2. On that channel are also videos of as a yearling and a foal (her dam is named Polish Prospect).

• The peeing thing is hard to explain! She does park out, but not as extreme as other mares, so some pee and dirt splashes onto her hinds. Part of it may be because she’s taller (16.2), but she only really puts her hinds about three feet apart. It’s weird to describe - wish I could get it on video or picture.

• Lela has slipped and fallen a few times that I’ve observed, but never limped off. I’ve never seen her lame EXCEPT when she developed an abscess on her front right shoulder. She became sound again when it was popped by the vet.

• Lela has always been turned out in a group, and while she was on my parents property had a favorite hill she’d run up and down. Now I think of it, she’s also been double barrel kicked down that hill by my 14.1 quarter horse, god rest her soul. I didn’t see that happen personally, so I can’t say if Lela limped off immediately after. She was visibly sound at least by the time I was home. That occurred about… seven months ago?

• Lela’s always been quite clumsy, but has greatly improved over the past couple months. The trainer used a mounting block for the first time in his life because she felt her sway each time he got in the saddle. When a 6’5" cowboy stoops so low as to use a block, one must know there was a pretty tangible issue. I can now get on from the ground without a complaint from her, but I deeply prefer not to for the sake of her back. And now her pelvis.

• Lela is very good at backing up, but I can’t say for certain good at backing up straight for more than 5 steps. I’ll keep a closer eye on her backing here on out.

That’s all I can conjure right now. I’ll attach the images on a post below, as well as deeper responses to your comments. Thank you!

LINK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-PU53CLrHs

[cocohooves]

Okay, now for more responses to your lovely comments. If you can’t read the descriptions in those photos please let me know. I just tried to check that and my computer only shows the first few words. Annoying!

@JB Thank you so much for the bit suggestion. I will definitely seek out a Myler and see if she likes it. It seems like the best of both worlds for her! As for frame and outline, I was thinking that putting her head down with gadgets would make her HEAVIER on the forehand, hence why I was leery.

@tipzythegreat Thank you for your story! It’s so interesting how one malfunctioning part can manifest in attitude, work ethic, and “laziness”. I’m so glad your boy is feeling better. That’s what I’m starting to think about more now. She can definitely be hot and has endless energy, but also deescalates beautifully and acts chill out in pasture. She’s not exactly unwilling to work and it’s not hard to get her to transition, but is this Lela’s full potential, or is there something catching?

@beowulf Those exercises are fantastic! As I said above, I tried a few out tonight and she had fun and did quite well considering. I’ll keep those on the roster for the future!

@streamline Ugh, these Thoroughbreds. It’s nice to hear I’m not alone. I’m going to have to squirrel away lots of money for a long time before I can afford a spendy vet visit, but I’m more than motivated to do so when the time is right. It will be interested to see what’s going on in there.

@KJT I appreciate your suggestions and will add those to my roster too! I’ve thought about rubber and leather bits, but Lela doesn’t like chunky things in her mouth. I’ve thought about the Centaur Ecopure bits, though, so if the Myler test doesn’t turn out, I’ll definitely see about getting my hands on one of those.

@khall Thank you! I’ve been watching some videos on Youtube since posting and should really get more into online training.

@S1969 I gave some more info in the post above. I don’t THINK she broke her pelvis, but one never knows with horses! A part of me does kind of hope this can be helped with treatment, but we’ll have to wait and see. Sigh.

[beowulf]

Thank you for the update, pictures, video clip, and more information.

First, nice mare. :yes: That’s a nice pedigree for sport, particularly distaff.

The video shows a mare that isn’t very balanced and very tight over her back and neck. You may be dealing with a long-term issue here. I didn’t see glaring pelvic problems in the video, but did see overall discomfort. A video of her jogging in hand up/down a flat surface would be a bit more telling, but if this is all we have to work with, I think it’s better than nothing.

Glad the chiropractor/vet is coming. I think it’ll help.

If you have the time, keep doing those stretches. I do them daily for one of my horses, and they help. If I hadn’t seen the difference for myself, I wouldn’t believe it – but it adds almost no time to my daily routine if I do two sets before I get on, and two sets after.

It’s normal for one side to be more difficult. If she had trouble with the nose-to-stifle (normal), but didn’t want to bend as much that direction, you may be dealing with a neck issue that is presenting soreness on the opposite side.

It’s also normal for the backing up portion to be wiggly at first. Keep at it.

The real reason I do these carrot stretches for this particular horse, is because he has cervical arthritis. It gives me a good gauge of his mobility/flexibility, and it’s also a good way to document daily how the disease is progressing. Horses tend to not give many obvious symptoms, particularly with CA, that they are hurting – so this exercise is a way to gauge how the CA is impacting him on a day to day basis.

In the pictures, particularly the close-up of her hind quarters, there is definitely a difference in the height of hips, the musculature, and even the SI/croup. To me it looks like there is some SI scarring over her back. This can happen from a slip, a fall, and can even happen from training at speed (racing, polo, jumping). SI scarring like that, where the croup is raised and there are those “ridgelike” deposits over them, are usually a symptom of something rather than the cause.

She is standing under herself, so I think you are right to investigate as the pictures show to me a horse with some chronic issues.

Not good she has fallen a few times. Consider the possibility she might have something neurological. It would explain the general appearance of her hind end, and would also explain why in her video as a 2 year old, she was so tight and disunited behind. I did not get the impression from her video that she was real confident where her feet were going.

Generally, one fall is a mistake… but if you are looking at two, it is time to consider something is going on.

Any time I see a horse fall it is a big red flag, to me. They’re quite heavy and their bodies aren’t designed for that kind of falling impact - not uncommon at all for a horse that slips and falls and hits its hindquarter to, at the very least, break their pelvic wing – which would explain the distinct difference in the hips/pelvis on each side. Luckily, that kind of injury is rarely career ending (especially for a horse that is being used for trail or leisure) but it does take a lot of time to correct the way they move after the injury.

[Marla_100]

My gelding had a broken pelvis- none of us knew- and wasn’t discovered til a lameness vet palpated his hip and pelvis.

A good lameness vet, one who’s very experienced, can save you a lot of time and $.

They see these type injuries all the time and you may not need to go to expensive diagnostics.

[tipzythegreat]

I am blown away at the differences between her left and right side! This is definitely an issue that’s been around a long time for her muscling to develop so differently.

Hopefully the vet can find the root of her problem. Her SI definitely has something going on… but it could be secondary. Falls can absolutely damage the SI and god knows what else.

I did ask my vet about doing chiro, and the only trouble is the chiro isn’t going to ‘hold’ until you uncover the underlying problem. It’ll help and I definitely recommend doing it, but try and get her comfortable. I bet she’d love massages too – mine benefited the most from a massage.

The good news is she does track up and seem happy enough. I think she just has a good attitude! Imagine what she’ll be like once you get her feeling top notch!!!

Good luck! Please keep us posted!

[JB]

She’s really interesting. In her video, I don’t see a lame horse, but I don’t see a sound horse either.

She doesn’t use her hind end well at all, and overall she’s a “leg mover”, no body involvement. In the canter, her hind end does not engage well at all, she’s getting close to using both hind legs together. Even if she were in an awkward growth stage, I would not expect that sort of movement in a 2yo. I’m having a hard time imagining her going from this, to the current “springy mover”.

She has a long weak loin, which will always make engaging her hind end hard(er),but it’s not SO bad that it should be accounting for what I see. I see the same hind end conformation and movement in her dam, but her dam has a bit more power and lift (though still not a lot).

I see the same movement in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFf6nCkvdeQ
Very flat leg-moving and the hind legs are more in unison than not at the canter.

At the 1:15 or so mark, when she’s trotting pretty parallel to the camera, I see a lot more flexion in the fetlocks than seems appropriate for the footing and movement. And at 1:25-1:35 I see lameness behind.

Without a square-standing view from behind it’s really hard to see the asymmetry

[Outyougo]

EPM. ? Tripping. Uneven muscle development? Just a thought. Have vet do neurological tests (tail pull. Move front feet out of position)

[Where_sMyWhite]

Might want to also look at some of Linda Tellington-Jones’ books on TTouch.

Might find some helpful suggestions there to assist in building some body awareness for your mare.

[J-Lu]

I don’t suggest using the gadgets your vet suggests. If you aren’t a trainer, you will likely cause more harm than good. Bosals don’t help a horse go in a frame.

I have a very good friend who purchased a yearling from a “reputable” breeder. The horse was always sound but always went wide behind, like she was wearing a diaper. My friend didn’t notice it but when she sent videos to her former trainer, that trainer quickly picked it up and said the horse had pelvic issues.

My friend had a very reputable local chiropractor come out, who claimed that the pelvis was a mess. She suspected the horse might have tried to jump a fence as a foal, and didn’t make it/crashed/totally whacked out the pelvis. This chiropractor worked on the pelvis for a year or so, at first all the time and then tapering off into time-spaced adjustments. The difference in this horse’s way of going is incredible, especially when you look at “before” and “after” videos. The hips are even now, she isn’t wide behind when she moves, and she looks much more comfortable and willing to move in a forward manner. Of note, I had this same Chiropractor out to work on my 4 year old, because he was a tense mess and I wanted to rule out back issues. She said she couldn’t find any issues with my horse and she didn’t need to come back, so I know she’s very honest first-hand.

Can you get a trustworthy chiro out to assess your horse and recommend things you can do? I would recommend getting the most trustworthy chiro out for “an assessment” without going into much detail and see what they say.

GOOD LUCK!