There was a lot of good information for the OP on this thread–let’s keep that train of thought going rather than derailing into a discussion about the OP.
Mod 3
I think that every horse owner can benefit from understanding saddle fit better because it so directly impacts the comfort and performance of their horse.
If you ride several horses I can see why people buy a “general” saddle and then pad to fit. The problem is that many people don’t know how to evaluate fit and random padding can just cause different problems.
I keep a Mattes pad with shims in my tackroom and think it’s a great tool. I also have my saddles checked every six months for fit.
Just a note about Stubbens and I used to sell A LOT of them, as JSwan can attest. The balance point of any Stubben is in line with the back of the flap as opposed to any close contact saddle where the balance point is just a few inches back from the pommel of the saddle. The Stubben puts your weight significantly behind the horse’s center of balance which is over the withers.
I’ve never thought of the bars being ‘closer’ to the front, but by putting your weight and seat further behind the balance you’re certainly going to be in more of a chair position than in a close contact saddle.
As to fit. A horse that takes a 30.5cm Stubben tree does NOT take a 30 or 31!
Old fashioned or ahem, practical professional horseman USED to believe that having white spots on either side of the withers was NORMAL. I don’t know that they ever knew or cared that it came from ill fitting saddles. I actually had one such ‘professional’ try to convince me that the white spots on the horse’s withers were because the horse was a PAINT. Oh yeah, solid bay with 2 white spots on either side of the withers. When I said, uh huh, he said, he’s a BREEDING stock paint! And as a gelding I would care about this why? :rolleyes:
Kryswn - maybe I’m just being nostalgic but what is up with the new Stubbens. I had an old Stubben that was the best saddle, and I sold it, even though it fit my impossible to fit horse beautifully. (yes, it was stupid but there it is)
The newer ones - what’s up with those banana shaped panels. And the new Siegfrieds don’t come close to fitting.
I really wanted a Roxanne S. Rode in one (custom fitted!) a couple of times and had to give my horse 3 weeks off. Not pretty.
To this day I’m kicking myself for selling that old Siegfried.
Some of the new Stubbens are really good… but there are a couple of stinkers in there too - I have never found any horse that could fit whatever tree is in the 19inch seat, 32cm width saddles in any of the ranges.
Bizarrely enough, the completely none-traditional, foam-filled Portos seems to be an adorable, great little saddle.
As I said JSwan I used to sell a lot of them. It’s prolly been 2 years since I’ve seen a saddle :lol:
Like everything else, I’m pretty convinced that Stubben is going to hell in a handbasket trying to cater to new riders whose knowledge is limited to what they’ve read in magazines and (forgive me) the internet.
The good news is you can prolly find your very own old saddle on Ebay eventually 
No, it doesn’t unless you get one for uber cheap. It’s worth the money though.
I thought most saddles just came narrow, medium, or wide in tree size.
You thought wrong. Stubbens come in cm measurements, from narrow to medium narrow to regular to med wide to wide to X-wide.
I know lots of COTHers get really uptight (and indignant) about saddle fit, but most people in the horse business as professionals strike me as being more pratical. I.E., a medium is fine for most horses and that’s as close to fitting as they come. I’m fine with that approach, too. Please don’t launch into telling me why fitting is so important – I won’t listen. :lol:
Not listening is a sign of a piss-poor horseman. You get what you deserve. And if you won’t listen to SOUND advice from experienced horsepeople, then don’t expect us to listen to your tales of woe when you horse develops a bad attitude, a sore back and/or decides to dump you on your head because his back hurts after carrying your fat ass around for 3+ hours. I don’t know the “professionals” you deal with, but the ones I work with make sure the saddles fit WELL.
Try wearing your shoes 2 sizes too small and see how your feet feel after even one hour. Better yet, go out and run a mile and jump over a few logs while you’re at it. Between the foot cramps and blisters you will be more than a little sore,
So, it is the case that the stirrup attachment is forward or back on some saddles? I ask because I brought that up in another thread about keeping my legs back.
Stubbens are famous for the chair seat because the bars are too far forward in relation to the pocket of the seat. That puts you behind the motion. Not a good thing.
just my 2 cents!
Pros= deep seat means secure ride, thick thigh flaps hold leg in place & means secure ride. Both are good for us weekend riders or those without good leg strength. Thigh rolls prevent leg moves when you get tired. Suede knee rolls give you super grippy hold. Well made, last forever, hold their value. Forward flaps and longer flaps superior for avg to tall riders or those with long hip/knee lengths. Great saddle for long hunting days, exciting days, green/excited horses! The wide trees really ARE wide trees. This saddle frequently fits draft crosses excellently. My 32 cm fit 4 half drafts well. When one’s weight dropped and wither got bony; I did use a cashel cushion for awhile. Otherwise they do have a high pommel too. Thick knee rolls makes your narrow horse feel wider.
Cons=deep seat means fanny stays put which means your spine takes more abuse. Can be terrible for those with bad backs, herniated discs (esp. L4-5) or weak abdominal musculature. ANY deep seated saddle does. Deep can create arched back unless stirrups up a hole or 2. Sometimes cantle hits you in butt over fences unless your stirrup length is right and you kinda brace off it. Deep also means you have reduced sitting surface so should get a seat size larger imho to get less back stress. Thick knee rolls means you are sitting wide and can affect leg position. You might find yourself knee gripping & rotating forward from there instead of calf gripping. Thick rollls means your wide horse feels wider! :winkgrin:
Overall I loved mine as a great weekend foxhunter saddle for my wide horse and wide butt! The security saved me more than once. But as you get fitter & ride better you can even go close contact for hunting.
JSwan, glad to see your assessment of the Roxane S. I’d been coveting one, but perhaps I should limit my coveting to a nice used County 
And Wateryglen, I like your description of the plusses and minuses of the Siegfried. You guys know that I’m not yet a hunt rider, only an aspiring one. But I love to learn all I can by reading and chatting with all of you who do hunt.
I have an old Siegfried VSD that I still use for trail riding and the occasional windy day when I want security. I’ve used it for jumping, and don’t find that it puts me in a terrible position, but I don’t jump anything over 2" 
Don’t get me wrong, I really wanted to love the Roxanne S. It looked like the perfect saddle for me. But it just didn’t fit the horse, and I didn’t care for it either. Just wouldn’t work for me. It is a nice saddle and should be terrific for hunting or eventing for the right person/horse. The older ones do seem to be designed a lot differently, though.
When a saddle fits both horse and rider - it absolutely makes a difference in your riding, as well as the horses way of going.
You will have to fight me over used County’s, I collect them the way people collect spoons.:p:D
I love Stubbens, I think they are pretty accurate in sizing both for rider and horse. And this is the first I’ve heard about them putting you in a chair seat. Mine is incredible for balance at the gallop (two-point) and the narrow twist is perfect. Now using it on a trail ride will give me a sore bum, but I’ve never had any of my horses get upset about having this saddle on them. And all three are a bit different in back type.
I haven’t hunted, that’s on my bucket list, but I have used my Stubben on long rides with gallops up and downhill. (and I didn’t get mine reflocked) Would recommend anyone interested in a new/used saddle to give one try.
