Stubben Seigfried

[altjaeger]

I’m been reading the saddle posts on the hunting forum and have decided I want a Stubben Seigfried. I’ll try to buy a used one off of eBay, if I can find my size (18 1/2 or even 19). I have noted that a number of you say it induces a bit of a chair seat (which is probably a good thing for hunting in first field).

A couple of questions. How accurate are they size-wise? I’ve been bitten before by saddles that measured well under what I measured them to be (and others that measure 1/4" longer, which is no big deal).

Second, what factors in a saddle induce a chair seat? Is it the placement of the leathers?

[strawberry_roan]

I have an 18" which I bought about 8 years ago. I would say the size is true–but if you are long-legged, get long flaps. It is my one big regret but followed advice of tack shop owner who said I would be fine, didn’t need long flaps, blah blah blah. I am 5’11" and had just returned to riding again after many years away. The seat is deep so I would think that is what is meant by a chair seat. It makes for a great hunt saddle.

[KateWooten]

They do put you in a chair seat, but are very stable and easy to stay in over fences. The sizes run true, but if you are very long legged you might be better off with one of the Ainsleys with the very forward flap.

All Siegfrieds off ebay need a reflock ! (as a general rule anyway) Budget for a reflock when you cost one, since they pretty much all need doing, and nobody bothers (except me) because the price of the reflock is almost as much as the saddle itself.

Do measure your horse before you buy. Take a tree-point tracing and then I’ll tell you how to figure your saddle width from that - not foolproof, but a good start. You would be amazed how different a 31.5 cm fits as opposed to a 31, or 32, even though it’s just 1/2 a cm either way.

[Bogie]

I’d say they fit pretty true to size.

I would recommend the VSS model with extra forward flaps. They are not THAT forward and I think the standard model has a pretty straight panel. I know people who hunt in them, but I’ve always preferred the VSS. I do have quite a long femur (to the point where even the VSS is not forward enough for me).

It’s the position of the stirrup bars relative to the length of your femur that puts you in a chair seat. If the bars are located too far forward, your feet end up in front of you.

I don’t actually see that as an advantage even out hunting as it puts you slightly behind the motion. Others may disagree.

One negative about the Stubbens is that the seats are generally hard as rocks :D. On the plus side, they last forever and they are considered to be “horse friendly” saddles that seem to fit a lot of horse shapes.

[altjaeger]

I have to have it reflocked and this costs almost as much as the saddle? :eek:

I thought most saddles just came narrow, medium, or wide in tree size. (?) I know lots of COTHers get really uptight (and indignant) about saddle fit, but most people in the horse business as professionals strike me as being more pratical. I.E., a medium is fine for most horses and that’s as close to fitting as they come. I’m fine with that approach, too. Please don’t launch into telling me why fitting is so important – I won’t listen. :lol:

So, it is the case that the stirrup attachment is forward or back on some saddles? I ask because I brought that up in another thread about keeping my legs back.

[Painted_Wings]

Stirrup bars are forward

I am short and I find it nearly impossible to jump in a Stubben. The chair seat puts me behind the motion of the horse and I get left at jumps.

You are right in that the stirrup bars are farther forward relative to the deep part of the seat. This means that your legs are further in front of you.

I hunt in a Barnsby Omega which is very comfortable and I don’t have this problem. Now I know tons of other people that ride just fine in a Stubben. They are generally longer legged than I am.

[SLW]

@altjaeger;5488855

I thought most saddles just came narrow, medium, or wide in tree size. (?) I know lots of COTHers get really uptight (and indignant) about saddle fit, but most people in the horse business as professionals strike me as being more pratical. I.E., a medium is fine for most horses and that’s as close to fitting as they come. I’m fine with that approach, too. Please don’t launch into telling me why fitting is so important – I won’t listen. :lol:.

Now you listen up here. Yup, most people can afford to be practical about saddle fit. :winkgrin: Arena riding, schooling over fences and flatting a horse on level ground 4 or 5 days a week for an hour won’t inflict the damage on the horses’s back that one month of fox hunting with an ill fitting saddle will do. It only took 4 weeks of twice weekly hunting for the “front to back rocking” of my saddle to cause damage to my horse. It took 8 weeks for the blisters to heal. Adding to my embarressment are the two, big permanent white marks near her withers. I tell people she had those marks when I bought her, evidence of a previous, dorky owners ill-fitted tack. :yes:

Seigfrieds are nice saddles as are the Bates AP. I hunt in a Passier AP which is like a cousin of the Stubben’s.

Good luck.

[Bogie]

Reflocking by my saddle fitter would run about $125.

I am frequently amazed by the number of foxhunters I know who have ended up with horses with back problems. One of them almost retired her horse and had two vets go over her before figuring out that it was her saddle that was causing the problem.

Now that she has a new saddle, her horse is fine.

I have my saddles checked for fit twice a year. It’s a lot cheaper than vet bills.

@altjaeger;5488855

I have to have it reflocked and this costs almost as much as the saddle? :eek:

I thought most saddles just came narrow, medium, or wide in tree size. (?) I know lots of COTHers get really uptight (and indignant) about saddle fit, but most people in the horse business as professionals strike me as being more pratical. I.E., a medium is fine for most horses and that’s as close to fitting as they come. I’m fine with that approach, too. Please don’t launch into telling me why fitting is so important – I won’t listen. :lol:

So, it is the case that the stirrup attachment is forward or back on some saddles? I ask because I brought that up in another thread about keeping my legs back.

[Foxtrot_s]

I can’t ride in a Sigfried - it hits me in the, er, bone at the trot. Better try one.
I am a Passier person myself if you want durability that is typical of both saddles.
My own Passier regularly swam in the Fraser River with the FVH and got soaked every weekend for years and years - and happily returned to work as soon as it was dry.

[altjaeger]

Problem with trying them (excellent advice!) is that even at large local shops, 18 1/2s aren’t in stock in all the various models I would like to compare. But, I think I’ll give up on buying off of Ebay.

[KateWooten]

You could always just buy one off ebay and try it. They’re cheap enough. Then if it doesn’t work out put it back on ebay - they’re about the most consistently priced saddle, so you rarely lose out more than the fee and one lot of shipping if you do that.

[Bogie]

@KateWooten;5489484

You could always just buy one off ebay and try it. They’re cheap enough. Then if it doesn’t work out put it back on ebay - they’re about the most consistently priced saddle, so you rarely lose out more than the fee and one lot of shipping if you do that.

I agree! I think buying known brands off eBay at good prices has minimal risk. I’ve done this several times myself – if I don’t like the saddle or it doesn’t fit, I just resell. Often I even come out ahead!

[SonnysMom]

Rick’s Heritage in PA has a 19" black Stubben Siegfried for $1,000.
http://www.saddlesource.com/products.asp?filter=19&cat=192&pg=2

And an 18.5 Siegfried VSD for $1,199.99
http://www.saddlesource.com/products.asp?cat=192&filter=18.5
They will ship and allow a trial period.

[whicker]

Altjaegar, If you want to hunt, you need to learn

Altjaegar,

Do you know what a horse with a hurting back does?
Have you ever had sciatica or a pinched nerve in your back?

Plan on hard bucking, rearing, leaping, bolting. Not jumping fences with you on. Dirty stops and leaving you in the dirt. Bitting at you when you try to put the saddle on. Cow kicking when you saddle up or try to mount. General sour disposition and avoiding being caught or put on the trailer.

The stuebben leaves virtually everyone in the back seat, getting left off the rump. Horses hate it when a rider hits them in the kidneys and knocks their hind legs out, so they can’t get over the jump.

You are setting yourself up for your own falls-and they won’t be easy ones.

And that’s not all the physical damage you will be doing to your horse and that’s going to be expensive to fix and take time. If you can repair the damage.

[JSwan]

The Siegfried is a nice saddle but the only acceptable saddle is one that fits the horse. If the Siegfried is a good fit for the horse, that’s great. Hopefully the saddle fits you as well, since if it doesn’t fit you are going to fight it, it will put you in a bad position, and you’ll end up sore and on the ground. Probably both.

And a poorly fitting saddle WILL cripple your horse. The horse will be in increasing pain, you will cause nerve damage which may be permanent, and you will again, increase your chances of a serious accident.

There are some minor fitting issues that can be mitigated with a shim or a pad or a change in routine. Sometimes an asymmetrical horse can be helped with a small shim, which can allow the horse to continue working and to even out the asymmetry as he becomes more fit. But these are temporary things that crop up from time to time.

A saddle that fits well, but could use a bit of additional flocking or removal of flocking to customize it, can be performed by a saddle fitter, who comes out and performs the task onsite.

There are lots of good saddles/manufacturers out there. Stubben is one of them, but if the saddle doesn’t fit you or the horse it doesn’t matter how well it’s made. Especially for sports like eventing or foxhunting; any saddle fit problem is magnified. And if your horse gets sore, you’re going to have to hang up your spurs until he’s healed. There’s no other way except to stop riding and allow the animal to recover; and it could take months.

[gypsymare]

Fit will also take into account the angle of the saddle. I hunt in my Seigfried VSSG on my horse… but she is a bit downhill and I have very long legs. It’s not the most comfortable saddle for endless trotting since you have to work harder to stay forward, but it is wonderful for galloping and jumping. However, on an uphill horse, it tips me way too far back. Even if it’s a good fit, that extra bit of tilt makes for a difficult ride.

[JSwan]

@altjaeger;5488855

Please don’t launch into telling me why fitting is so important – I won’t listen. :lol:

That is one of the saddest things I’ve ever read on this bb.

:no:

[citydog]

Stübbens are pretty accurate when it comes to seat sizes. I love and have hunted in my Siegfried VSS and it doesn’t put me in a chair seat at all–I’m 5’9" and do have long femurs and large feet for (10.5/11) for a woman, though.

@altjaeger;5488855

I have to have it reflocked and this costs almost as much as the saddle? :eek:

Yes.

I thought most saddles just came narrow, medium, or wide in tree size. (?) [

Nope. The difference in fit, as someone mentioned upthread between a 31cm and a 32cm tree in the same model and seat size can be significant. Stübbens range in size from 28 to 32 cm, often in .5 cm increments (the older ones) and they recently added an XW fitting in some models.

I know lots of COTHers get really uptight (and indignant) about saddle fit, but most people in the horse business as professionals strike me as being more pratical. I.E., a medium is fine for most horses and that’s as close to fitting as they come. I’m fine with that approach, too. Please don’t launch into telling me why fitting is so important – I won’t listen. :lol:

Wow. Just…wow.

You might be fine with it but it’s unlikely that your horse will be. There is a huge difference between a schooling session in an arena or even XC and a day’s hunting. Huge. Think of your horse’s saddle fit as you would shoes for yourself. The shoes you wear for a day at the office are unlikely to be all that comfy for a day of shopping and mall-walking, are going to be entirely unsuitable for walking your dog in the woods, and will cripple you if you attempt to run a half marathon in them.

[alto]

Try contacting Stubben UK as they still have a number of websale saddles including the Siegfried, Roxanne & Parzival in your seat size; Stubben NA doesn’t have any websale saddles listed but I’d try them anyway …

A wither/back trace & a few photos seem like a pretty small investment to maximize the chance that any saddle you buy will be comfortable for your horse, so I can’t fathom why you would not want to do this

[fivehorses]

[QUOTE=altjaeger;5488855]
I have to have it reflocked and this costs almost as much as the saddle? :eek:

I thought most saddles just came narrow, medium, or wide in tree size. (?) I know lots of COTHers get really uptight (and indignant) about saddle fit, but most people in the horse business as professionals strike me as being more pratical. I.E., a medium is fine for most horses and that’s as close to fitting as they come. I’m fine with that approach, too. Please don’t launch into telling me why fitting is so important – I won’t listen. :lol:

So, it is the case that the stirrup attachment is forward or back on some saddles? I ask because I brought that up in another thread about keeping my legs back.[/QUOTE]

what an ignorant comment…you won’t listen to why saddle fit is important? Are you for real, or just don’t give a hoot about animals?

By the rest of your post, you also don’t seem to know very much about riding with the kinds of questions you ask.

So someone who is not knowledgable, and also uncaring makes me feel very bad for any animal in your possession.

I would wager you to be a spoiled person who thinks of nothing but themselves and their own importance. Is that why hunting is so intriguing for you…so you can go to the hunt ball and social activities and brag. Hope you also brag about how you don’t care about the most important aspect of any kind of equine sport…the care and knowledge of horse and horsemanship.
I am sure most of the true sportspeople in your hunt know you for what you are.