Studdish hunter gelding

[tinack]

:no:

My daughter’s warmblood is an incredible horse under saddle. Bombproof, quiet, they compete in the children’s hunters, he never shown bad behaviour. In hand he is the worse. He was gelded at 2 and is almost impossible to handle in hand. He will bite, lunge at you, paw and try to strike with his front feet. We’ve tried to be gentle, we’ve tried to be firm - he is almost like a teenager with ADD. What I mean is that he will realize he is in trouble but two seconds later he will lunge right back at you. It wouldn’t be so much of a problem in any other discipline but he is showing great promise in the hunter ring where he is too difficult (on a normal basis) to jog in front of the judge if he pins. Especially for a young rider. Some days he is a bit better, but other days he’s horrible.
I’ve read that regumate could be an option, I wonder if any of you would have other suggestions…?

[enjoytheride]

First, I’d have a vet look at him to make sure he’s really a gelding.

Second, I’d send him to a good solid trainer to put the fear of God into him. That behavior isn’t due to him not being gelded until two, but a total lack of ground manners and training.

Third, if the trainer (and I suggest a cowboy, NH type because they tend to have experience with ground manner issues and not just under saddle finishing) can’t fix him I’d get rid of him. No way would I risk my kid’s safety with a horse that bites and strikes.

[PhoenixFarm]

How long have you had him? do you know if perhaps he was on something like Regumate before you got him? That can really screw with them.

A friend of mine got an eq horse that came with his own bottle of (can’t think of the name, not regumate but the other progesterone drug, that you only give once a week). She was scrupulous with her horses and not giving them meds, so she basically tossed it in the trash when she got the horse home. He started behaving much like you’re describing

Turned out the BNT that had imported him, had looked at him as a stallion in Germany, had him gelded right before shipping, and then started him on the drug within 30 days of his gelding (so he could show and sell asap). Apparently that really messed up the endocrine system of the horse, and stopping cold turkey turned him in a stud. After consulting with several vets, she put him back on it, then slowly titrated him down over a period of several months until she was able to stop it all together. He was fine after that.

[lindsay.anne]

EnjoyTheRide took the words out of my mouth: cowboy.

Thats what came to mind when I read your post, OP. Send him to a cowboy to learn the manners. Personally, that would be my strategy before hormones. Some of those cowboys are amazing!

[greysfordays]

Absolutely agree with cowboy. Mine was gelded late and very all over the place on the ground. Some good ground work and now he walks like a puppy with me at the shows. The change happened really quickly, he just realized it was actually less stressful to have a boss than to be one. YMMV

[Highflyer]

Two is not really very late, as gelding goes. I think doing some bloodwork to check his testosterone level is a good idea (all the training in the world won’t help if he has an undescended testicle)-- and also agree with following up with his previous owners about management.

[Pennywell_Bay]

1. vet
2. bloodwork
3. CTJ meeting through a cowboy.

I don’t care how well behaved he is under saddle. This behavior needs to stop. If he doesn’t respect you on the ground, eventually he will one up you when you are on his back.

[BeeHoney]

Some horses just aren’t–and won’t ever be–kid friendly on the ground. Yes, by all means get a vet involved and make sure there isn’t an endocrine problem. It may be that progesterone would be helpful. However, your horse sounds mouthy and like he has some bad habits but not exactly studdish.

I’m not sure I would recommend a cowboy, I’d be nervous sending a valuable horse that was already going well under saddle off to a western trainer unless it was someone I knew very well. Being rough or strict with a horse that has learned to be mouthy or playfully aggressive is not necessarily going to work, instead you are entering his game. Using tough discipline (i.e. CTJ) might backfire and instead of solving the problem simply add fear and distrust to the mix.

My advice would be that the horse likely needs an outlet for his playful/aggressive behavior. Toys, turnout, plus a tough pasture mate that can make him toe the line can work wonders on a young horse that is having manners issues.

[littlesquirrel]

Before sending him away to get nine bells knocked out of him try a Herbal Wise product called Slut Mix, this stuff is phenomenal and we used it on the racehorses who thought that they were still entire and wouldn’t concentrate on what they were supposed to be doing. It’s worth a try at least.
I have sent you the link as to where to buy it in the UK but i’m sure that they sell it in the US too.
http://www.supplementsolutions.co.uk/equine/calming-behaviour-supplements/hormonal-mare/horsewise-slut-mix-1-litre.html

[ShoulderIn]

I rode a gelding that was just like this. He had the worst ground manners and like you described, almost like he had ADD. You just have to be tough. It was all about respect for him and catching him before he could be bad. It really is about playing his game and I could literally feel him thinking about wanting to do something bad, and I would immediately correct him.

I would do a lot of ground work and lunging. Take your time tacking up and walking. When he wants to be bad, be loud saying ‘NO’, pull the lead rope down, and back him up. Lunging just made him learn that we are working together and also helped us under-saddle so it had a double purpose. This is very ‘cowboy’-ish type training, but it honestly works. He learned very fast he could not mess with me and he quickly became the most well mannered horse and kid friendly. It might’ve taken me 2 or 3 times longer to do anything, but it worked.

Also make sure he can’t get away with anything. It might seem a little overboard at first, but if you give him an inch, he’ll take a mile.

[Scratch_N_Dent]

Maybe I’m missing something here but this horse has gone way beyond the point most experienced horse people let one get. Striking is very serious, dangerous stuff. Do you have this horse at home or is he boarded somewhere? Yup, I would chat with the vet and try the regumate if recommended, but I would also have sit down with management and staff where this horse is boarded and ask some serious questions (who handles him currently and how) then come up with a game plan that everyone is in on. If this was my kid…no handling this beast without a helmet (although that is hardly enough to keep the rest of her safe). We had one like this where I board and eventually he did improve but it was likely part luck and part careful handling.

[Ambitious_Kate]

I have used Rex Peterson in the past for this very thing - this kind of behaviour is his forte. He has very very good techniques to train the horse and he insists on also training the handlers/rider/owner as well. You can bring the horse to him for a week long bootcamp, he also does clinics and can come and see you personally. Reall worthwile, good training. http://swansonpetersonproductions.com/

I would contact his wife, Cari Swanson and talk with her and see what she suggests for you. http://cariswanson.com/training-sales/

They work in film, so there’s alot of that on their website, but my trainer has them out to her farm in CT every spring, where they work in a clinic setting on all of our horses and certain issues they may be having with behaviour. Its really worth a call to her. They are so kind, and accessible, and very kind, patient people. Very smart, too. Hope that helps.

[ladipus]

First I would have your vet draw blood to make sure he’s really a gelding…next on the list of things to check for nasty/irritable behavior would be: Ulcers, Lyme Disease, Epm …if all that is normal and nothing is found I would suggest trying Depo injections -cheaper and easier than Regumate and possibly Mare Magic which can be used on geldings…then it would be helpful to either be working with a pro who can help nip this behavior in the bud…but chances are if it’s any of the above mentioned things treatment usually resolves theses issues fairly quickly

[Inclined]

Sell him. Even with some serious ground work and NH, these sorts often need constant reminding that they are not in charge. Your daughter shouldn’t have to worry with that at her age. A child’s safety comes first.

[Belmont]

Gelding at two isn’t very late. My horse was gelded at five, and he does not act studdish at all (unless he is OUTSIDE with a mare in heat), therefore he can’t be pastured with mares.

It’s about manners. This horse is a danger to you and your daughter. If you can’t or don’t want to put the money into some come to jesus, I suggest selling it.

[red_mares]

He’s not studdish, he’s obnoxious and has no manners. Studdish is going after a mare.

I know 3 yro studs who don’t behave that badly. I know one who does & it’s because it’s been allowed.

Agree with whomever said review the handling program. Even if you sell him, which wouldn’t be a bad idea as it’s a kid’s horse, look hard at how he is handled daily. Your handling arrangement might turn the next nice horse into a monster as well.

[akhunterrider]

I will be the first to admit that I would not have the skills to deal with a horse like you are mentioning. I have met a few horses that were gelded pretty late (6+) and all of them were pretty good to handle, so I wouldn’t personally blame it on that.

As others have mentioned, and as you know, it is a very unsafe situation, especially with a kid involved. Bad ground manners, and I’m talking rude, not outright dangerous, are not something I will deal with. For me personally, as more of a hobby horse owner who rides occasionally now, the horse has to be good to handle, or I will not keep it around. Mine need a reminder sometimes, but if they would ever become dangerous, they’d leave the fastest way possible. My safety and my family member’s safety is much more important than a horse I may or may not be able to ride.

[IPEsq]

I think you can fix his manners, but you have to be consistent. I used to have to jog my junior hunter holding a crop in my right hand so he wouldn’t try to take a chunk out of my arm in the jog. I never had to use it, but just holding it up made a difference. He wasn’t as aggressive as your horse, but he had personal space issues. While help from a pro would do some good, you and your daughter need to learn how to handle him to where he learns to stop testing you. He may learn to toe the line for the pro but then be a jerk as soon as he’s back in your hands, which doesn’t do you much good.