Thank you. I do have a thin felt around, so I may try different things. I just hate having to put her through this, especially after I thought I found her the perfect fit. I’ll probably just go back to the old one until I can see some changes, thank you again.
Cutting or shimming the pad is for something very specific that is easy to fix.
When the whole shape of the saddle doesn’t seem to fit, I am not sure that you really want to try that?
A western saddle that fits well should sit on a horse draping it’s back, not sit there like a bump on a log.
Once the rider gets on, it should settle evenly all over and you can see how the sheepskin will also help pad a bit by getting smooshed in places and not quite in others.
One of those places tends to be in the back, if you have pressure there under the edge of the skirts, check under there back to the end of the bars of the saddle and see if you feel them digging there.
Here are some pictures, same horse, two different saddles, one that fits like a bump in the log, is just a tad too flat like yours in the tree and also a hair narrow for that horse.
If the skirts were longer, it would even dig in front of his hips, even if the saddle was wider in front and sitting lower, because the bar’s rocking doesn’t quite fit that horse’s back curve.
Not so obvious on the horse, more so when a rider sits on it and you can see then how that saddle doesn’t “hug” the horse, but still sits up there, especially in front.
Your saddle seems to, just sitting there, on the back, already be pushing on the horse over the spine behind, the surface of the whole saddle is not evenly distributing the saddle shape and won’t once you add the rider’s weight, put put undue pressure there.
I also never heard to split the housing by loosening the back, which if the problem is the tree’s shape, would still not help that much, just change where the pressure will be happening, more forward then.
The second saddle fits much better, can’t tell so much just sitting there, but with a rider, you can see how even the sheepskin behind is fluffy, not unduly compressed.
When the horse moves, that won’t be digging or rubbing the horse behind and it didn’t, horse was ridden many hours working cattle for several days in that saddle.
With the first saddle, horse was obviously not comfortable from the first steps and let us know.
The saddle didn’t fit for more problems than the shape of the tree, but that too was, as yours seems, one more reason it didn’t:
Thank you.
Is there a pad under the saddle in the pictures? I couldn’t tell.
No pad
OP, I very much agree with what has been said so far (well, minus one poster…). It does sound like your saddle needs to be more banana-shaped with the tree.
I would have to say that I disagree with your saddlemaker about cutting a hole in the pad where the sore is appearing, simply because it’s not going to fix the problem and only tries to cover it up.
I too have ridden in saddles that were less-than-perfect in the fit, sometimes for all day, and I have NEVER actually had a horse that has gotten a saddle sore. So in your case, I know you may not want to get a different saddle, but I do think that is the best option in your case.
Looking at the pictures, it does not look to be a horrible fit by any means. But if you are getting a sore, your horse is getting a sore. Something doesn’t fit. Unfortunately in the Western world, you can’t modify the tree that is in the saddle. And there’s only so much that padding can do. If the shape of the tree is wrong, trying to alter the padding just usually doesn’t cut it.
I’m sorry but what exactly is wrong with a “pomel like that”?
There is space between the gullet and the horse’s withers. So long as there still is space when you add a pad and a rider, it’s fine. You don’t need to have a drastic amount of space above the withers; as long as it does not contact the withers, it’s fine.
I fail to see how the OP’s saddle will “damage the horse’s withers”.
[QUOTE=walkers;8885837] Sorry that saddle does not fit your horse and it is cruel to use on that horse. Its too wide and sits on his back, loins and withers, the pomel is awful .
[/QUOTE]
If anything, you maybe could argue that the bar angle is a smidge too narrow. I certainly would NOT argue that it’s too wide.
[QUOTE=walkers;8885837]
There are lots of good saddle fit videos on u-tube,[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should take your own advice and watch some. 
I agree. I’ve been digging and it seems that if her topline can fill out it might help the saddle fit a bit better. That being said, I do have a saddle that doesn’t sore her and I can use in the mean time. Thinking back to the fitting, it was done with just a blanket over her back, not a pad, and it did not have this issue at that time. She went on stall rest and then out to pasture for a few months and lost some of her muscling and then she dropped some weight when she needed her teeth done before I realized that was the issue. Since then she’s come back up in weight and her topline is improving again. So maybe that’s the answer. Either way, she’s out of this saddle until something changes.
You say when you run your hand under the saddle (I am assuming you are up under the bars of the tree all the way back) that there is even pressure all along. You are not finding bridging - pressure at both ends with a gap in the middle? Then the tree is likely OK and the problem is the skirts themselves.
Check out this link. http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/saddle-fit-western-compared-to-english-part-2/ Go to the bottom of #4 and there is a picture and pressure test of a saddle that looks like yours - the skirts go down in the middle and cause a pressure point right on the spine. You say that your horse has lost weight and muscle so his spine will be more prominent. If you put the saddle on bare again and run your hand under the bars first to double check contact, and then all along under the edges of the skirt. Is there more pressure under the back edge of the skirt, particularly under the center over the spine, compared to the rest? If there is, you know this is your problem.
If so, your options are to a) get the saddle maker to modify the back of the skirts so there is nothing holding the back together right close to the back of the skirts (some makers build their skirts like this to avoid this problem), b) use the pad cut out under this area for now till you build more muscle on your horse and get the spine less prominent, c) a combination of them both - probably preferable or d) use the other saddle till this one works on him - or not.
Please let us know what you find by checking for pressure under the skirt edges.
Edges have even pressure except over the spine and each loin in the back. Over her loins there is not much contact and on her spine in the very back there is solid contact.
As for method I’ll use, I’m probably going to use my training saddle until I get better muscle development. If she can develop a good amount I might try the cutout temporarily, but I’m not totally sold on it. Still waiting to see if anyone has had any success with it or not. If at the end of all of this the saddle still doesn’t fit, I guess I’ll look at selling it. Hate to do it, best saddle I’ve owned, but mare always comes first.
[QUOTE=Dani;8883736]
Going to the maker tomorrow and will ask. He’s a bit of a drive away so I can’t just stop by… I’d be permanently broke if I could :lol:
The saddle isn’t too long for her back, she’s longer backed as it is.
There is braiding and that is resting on her spine in the picture. if that is the problem is there a way to fix that without cutting the saddle apart? I’d like to keep it all together properly, but horse does come first.
Pictures Below
http://imgur.com/a/vbWN8[/QUOTE]
Picture 1. I know I say this a lot, but the saddle needs to be placed so the tree is not on top of the scapula. you are misplacing the saddle.
Picture 3. Do you see the convex profile to the back of the skirt? Not good
Picture 4. Do you see how asymmetrical the saddle skirt is behind the cantle? Not good.
So the where the skirts are connected together at the back is holding the whole back of the saddle up off the horse by pressure on the spine - correct?
I know one solid saddle maker who told me “I have fixed a lot of saddle fit problems with a sharp knife. I cut the laces holding the skirts together at the back.” This relieved the pressure on the back of the skirts and let the tree sit down on the horse. But in this case, it isn’t laces but stitched solidly. That is an unusual design - and a problematic one.
All the best to you!
Spam reported.
csaper58 - I have been looking in to saddle placement a lot lately and I’m working on learning proper placement. I was taught at a young age that the latigo should hang straight over the cinch, never angled, and I’m having a lot of trouble getting out of that habit. As for the convex profile, the underside of the saddle doesn’t show that at all and I think it’s just the back jockey/rear housing that’s shaped funky. I’m not sure what angle I took the photo at, it may make the saddle look asymmetrical. I’ll take a look at it here shortly, but I feel like I would have noticed that much variance.
Aspen1 - The back jockey/rear housing is the part that’s solidly stitched, the skirt isn’t. The skirt is just laced together. I might talk to another saddle maker and take the saddle and horse to him. If he says cut it, then I will, but I want someone with way more experience than I have to make that decision… Also someone that can repair it should I need to sell the saddle.
The skirt is just laced together.
Good to know. From the back it looked like there was a piece of leather stitched on both sides. Lacing can be cut and replaced when necessary.
If he says cut it, then I will, but I want someone with way more experience than I have to make that decision… Also someone that can repair it should I need to sell the saddle.
Both very wise decisions… 
Thanks! I like to cover my butt just in case.
Just wanted to add that I rode Ludie with the PRI pad and the western saddle today. It did NOT press on his loin area, and his back was NOT sore afterwards, and he was a happy camper while I rode (he is very opinionated). I was able to pull the pad up into the saddle gullet (my saddle HAS a gullet like an english saddle, one reason I bought the brand).
You might try the pad…
Also, I have heard there is such a thing as a “tunnel pad” that has a “built in” gullet for western saddles. Might want to look into that too…
I spoke to a local maker/fitter and I’m hauling my mare to him tomorrow. He’s going to take a look at the saddle on my mare and see if he can fix it, tell me if it will work once my mare has built more topline, or if I need a different saddle. I’ve been going to him for years now and I do trust him. He’s the one I got the saddle from that doesn’t sore my mare. He’s also going to put a few different trees on her back to see what fits her best in comparison to what I have. So hopefully I can get some solid answers tomorrow.
As a side note, he also did say that cutting the lace at the back of the skirt likely wouldn’t do anything.
Well… He didn’t even have tree that fit her. He also said that nobody local makes/sells a tree that will fit her properly. Her back is a bit misleading and even though it looks and feels like the semi-qh bar fits, she really needs a full bar (7.5" gullet). She’s got an odd conformation and he knows of a tree that will compensate for that.
He also looked at the saddle on her and said that cutting a hole in the pad may actually make it worse, or cause other problems… So that’s out of the question as well. Additionally, there is no way that it can be modified to fit her, even if she fills in her topline a bit. So I have no use for it and I’ve listed it for sale.
Looking at the saddle itself, he said there isn’t anything wrong with it, he doesn’t care for the placement of the rigging, but it’s a functional and durable saddle. It should sell pretty well.
The maker offered me a good deal on a custom built for her with a tree that will actually fit her and I took it. He’s having to order the tree so when that comes in he wants me to haul her back in so we can be sure it 100% fits her. I was able to put a deposit down and he will take payments so I can probably swing it. So a month to 6 weeks from now I should have something that fits her well. Hopefully, the last saddle I’ll need for her.
[QUOTE=Dani;8890848]
Well… He didn’t even have tree that fit her. He also said that nobody local makes/sells a tree that will fit her properly. Her back is a bit misleading and even though it looks and feels like the semi-qh bar fits, she really needs a full bar (7.5" gullet). She’s got an odd conformation and he knows of a tree that will compensate for that.
He also looked at the saddle on her and said that cutting a hole in the pad may actually make it worse, or cause other problems… So that’s out of the question as well. Additionally, there is no way that it can be modified to fit her, even if she fills in her topline a bit. So I have no use for it and I’ve listed it for sale.
Looking at the saddle itself, he said there isn’t anything wrong with it, he doesn’t care for the placement of the rigging, but it’s a functional and durable saddle. It should sell pretty well.
The maker offered me a good deal on a custom built for her with a tree that will actually fit her and I took it. He’s having to order the tree so when that comes in he wants me to haul her back in so we can be sure it 100% fits her. I was able to put a deposit down and he will take payments so I can probably swing it. So a month to 6 weeks from now I should have something that fits her well. Hopefully, the last saddle I’ll need for her.[/QUOTE]
Good, did you take any pictures today?
Maybe take pictures when you try the new tree?
Will be interesting to see what you get.
Here full qh tree tends to mean 7" or more, less is semi-qh and not everyone measures quite the same way, so hard to tell some times.
Agree with Bluey, plus the problem with going by the semi vs. full QH. it’s kind of a gullet measurement then the bar angles tend to flatten out as the gullet gets wider but no indication of other factors affecting fit, blah, blah, blah…
And it all varies with maker. Actually it is a horrible gauge of fit.
