Stumped on Saddle Fit

[Dani]

Got a saddle back in May and it was fitted to my horse by the saddle maker. It’s a really really nice saddle and was pretty much at the limits of what I could afford. Due to some various reasons I didn’t really start using it until about a month/month and a half ago. A little arena work here and there, no problem. Went to a show, all good. 11 mile trail… Saddle Sore!

It is on her spine at the back of the skirt. It rubbed over her loins as well, but it didn’t rub the hair off. I had a correctional pad on her (Classic Equine Bio Fit) and I thought it may be causing the saddle to pitch backwards.

Changed my saddle pad after the sore healed and was no longer tender. About an hour in the arena with a decent amount of lope work made another sore.

Does anyone know what the specific cause of a sore in that location would be? I can’t find anything about sores there, most resources only talk about wither sores and she doesn’t have any of those.

Please don’t just tell me to get another saddle. I will recheck the fit soon, but I can’t afford to purchase another saddle right now and I’m looking for the root of the issue. I know something isn’t fitting properly, my question is why.

[csaper58]

What does the saddle maker say?

I think you need to start by ask him/her to take a look at the horse and the sores and explain why it is happening and what might fix the issues.

My experience is that this happens when…

1. the saddle sits up in the front and down on the spine in the back.

And/Or

2. the skirt is too long for a short coupled horse.

With out pictures there is no way to know what is going on.

[cloudy18]

Is there braiding at the back of the skirt, down the middle to hold the two sides tight together? I’ve known horses to get sore from that and people have grudgingly cut that braiding out, but it solved the problem. Yours is probably not that easy, but just a thought.

[Dani]

Going to the maker tomorrow and will ask. He’s a bit of a drive away so I can’t just stop by… I’d be permanently broke if I could :lol:

The saddle isn’t too long for her back, she’s longer backed as it is.

There is braiding and that is resting on her spine in the picture. if that is the problem is there a way to fix that without cutting the saddle apart? I’d like to keep it all together properly, but horse does come first.

Pictures Below
http://imgur.com/a/vbWN8

[froglander]

Do you have any pics with a pad? I don’t think your horse needs a built up pad with this saddle, it does not look low in the front or anything and by lifting it up in the front, it would likely be tipped down in the back like you thought.

[Aces_N_Eights]

In my opinion, not enough rock. The back of the tree is pressing down over the loins. Especially if you are using a Bio-Fit, it’s really going to set it back on the ends of the bars. I can see where a normal pad might cause hair to get roughed up.

I feel like the saddle was fitted as if you weren’t going to use a pad at all. A pad will slightly change the fit. It should of been fitted with and without to see where you’re at.

[Dani]

The last pad I used was this one. The only other one I have is one of those synthetic Abetta ones. Not a huge fan of those…

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Aces N Eights;8884105]
In my opinion, not enough rock. The back of the tree is pressing down over the loins. Especially if you are using a Bio-Fit, it’s really going to set it back on the ends of the bars. I can see where a normal pad might cause hair to get roughed up.

I feel like the saddle was fitted as if you weren’t going to use a pad at all. A pad will slightly change the fit. It should of been fitted with and without to see where you’re at.[/QUOTE]

That is what I was seeing, before reading this, saved me some typing.

The saddle should be more banana shaped for that horse’s back.
It looks like it is bridging in the middle, putting pressure forward and behind.

Found one explanation on western saddle tree shapes:

http://www.western-saddle-guide.com/saddle-tree.html

[Dani]

When I run my hand under it, it is putting pressure evenly along her back. Is there a way to correct the lack of rock?

[cloudy18]

I don’t think there’s a way to fix the braiding. I’ve just known people to cut it out. But if that’s not the problem, I’d hate to cut it for nothing.

You can try to shim to correct a lack of rock, but it’s not ideal. It can cause problems in other areas.

If it makes you feel better, I’m having saddle fitting issues as well. No sores, but hair being rubbed off, soreness, pads not staying put… I feel your pain.

[lorilu]

I have a similar issue with my western saddle - due to my horse’s slight roach over the loins. I just bought a PRI western pad with fleece panels underneath - and more importantly, a free spine. I am hoping the pad raises the saddle enough and the free spine area creates enough clearance. Most of the western pads I investigated had flat bottoms and any padding raised the top of the pad - that would not have helped me. WIth the fleece on the bottom, it provides room along the spine.
I have not tried it yet…

[aktill]

Saddlemaker may not have put enough lift in the skirts. That’s caused when the shape of the angle where the skirts comes together is off, and if too tight, requires new skirts. You’ll loin sore a horse quickly like that.

If this was made custom for this horse it’s their problem.

[Dani]

Saddle is not custom made for her… If only I had that kind of money…

Met with the Maker this afternoon, he’s suggesting a felt pad with the sore area cut out. He thinks that will alleviate the pressure and as she builds topline the issue may right itself. If she fills in through the loin it would have the saddle fitting just a hair better and it may stop rubbing. Has anyone tried this method before? If you have, was it successful?

[walkers]

Sorry that saddle does not fit your horse and it is cruel to use on that horse. Its too wide and sits on his back, loins and withers, the pomel is awful . You cannot canter in that saddle without damaging your horses withers.
I know its aa lot of money but you will damage this horse using this saddle, Sell it on e-bay and get a saddle that fits. Never get a saddle with a pomel like that .
saddle pads are to keep your saddle clean and add a little cushion , they do not ever make a saddle fit a horse.
I’ve been going through saddle fitting for two horses recently but even without that education the saddle you show in the photos of the grey if thats your saddle/horse never use it again. Hope you can get your money back.
There are lots of good saddle fit videos on u-tube, even look at the ones by english makers it still about the tree, angle and fit. Stubben has a pretty good one as does Prestige.Or go to the endurance videos ,lots of good ones…
Please stop hurting your horse…

[walkers]

Oh your saddle maker is full of it. Felt pad cut out!!! you are being taken for a ride, a bad ride…

[Dani]

[QUOTE=walkers;8885837]
Sorry that saddle does not fit your horse and it is cruel to use on that horse. Its too wide and sits on his back, loins and withers, the pomel is awful . You cannot canter in that saddle without damaging your horses withers.
I know its aa lot of money but you will damage this horse using this saddle, Sell it on e-bay and get a saddle that fits. Never get a saddle with a pomel like that .
saddle pads are to keep your saddle clean and add a little cushion , they do not ever make a saddle fit a horse.
I’ve been going through saddle fitting for two horses recently but even without that education the saddle you show in the photos of the grey if thats your saddle/horse never use it again. Hope you can get your money back.
There are lots of good saddle fit videos on u-tube, even look at the ones by english makers it still about the tree, angle and fit. Stubben has a pretty good one as does Prestige.Or go to the endurance videos ,lots of good ones…
Please stop hurting your horse…[/QUOTE]

There are some incorrect assumptions in your post, and I really don’t appreciate the way your message comes across. It does not impact her shoulder or wither, nor does it rest on her wither. That was the primary reason I purchased this particular saddle in addition to it being more narrow than the previous saddle. The only spot it does not fit her in at this point is over her loin. Please, enlighten me on your reasoning behind the “awful pommel”. I am not here to be berated and called an abuser. Please take your hateful comments elsewhere.

Just an aside, she’s not a grey.

[Bluey]

Here is more on saddles:

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com/saddlefit.html#.V_xaXjKZPPC

[Aces_N_Eights]

[QUOTE=Dani;8884813]
When I run my hand under it, it is putting pressure evenly along her back. Is there a way to correct the lack of rock?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dani;8885562]Saddle is not custom made for her… If only I had that kind of money…

Met with the Maker this afternoon, he’s suggesting a felt pad with the sore area cut out. He thinks that will alleviate the pressure and as she builds topline the issue may right itself. If she fills in through the loin it would have the saddle fitting just a hair better and it may stop rubbing. Has anyone tried this method before? If you have, was it successful?[/QUOTE]

No there is no option unfortunately if the rock in the tree is the issue. I believe if it was just the skirts being tight over the back then the soreness will show over the spine. If it is the tree then over the loins themselves.
About this time of year Ill have a little bit of hair get roughed due to the dry weather causing hair breakage but not a sore back.

If you have to use THAT much of a pad modification, the saddle doesn’t fit. I’m sorry. I know you don’t want to find a new saddle but I would be looking for a different one. I ride hours a day and hardly ever sored a horse that bad. If I do I swap horses if I don’t have a saddle to fit him or I will seriously consider a saddle change.
With the horses and saddle I ride I can usually accommodate with a slight pad and/or blanket change. I can ride several head and the only thing that is tough to fit are low withered, flat backed horses. It is not great but still not sore one to the degree you are talking about.
I am not bashing you, your horse, saddle maker or saddle. (I like the looks of your saddle) Simply trying to make the point of -it just doesn’t fit unfortunately. If you have to cut out spots in a pad to make it work on what I would consider an average horse(no abnormalities) it isn’t going to work. If her back changes with work? Maybe.

[QUOTE=walkers;8885837]Sorry that saddle does not fit your horse and it is cruel to use on that horse. Its too wide and sits on his back, loins and withers, the pomel is awful . You cannot canter in that saddle without damaging your horses withers.
I know its aa lot of money but you will damage this horse using this saddle, Sell it on e-bay and get a saddle that fits. Never get a saddle with a pomel like that .
saddle pads are to keep your saddle clean and add a little cushion , they do not ever make a saddle fit a horse.
I’ve been going through saddle fitting for two horses recently but even without that education the saddle you show in the photos of the grey if thats your saddle/horse never use it again. Hope you can get your money back.
There are lots of good saddle fit videos on u-tube, even look at the ones by english makers it still about the tree, angle and fit. Stubben has a pretty good one as does Prestige.Or go to the endurance videos ,lots of good ones…
Please stop hurting your horse…[/QUOTE]

To the bolded especially but the whole post is ignorant.

Dani, Like I mentioned before your saddle looks as though it was fitted without a pad or a bare tree and didn’t account for the skirts, fleece and pad. The “pommel” is fine. The gullet perhaps a tad narrow if you were to add too much pad.

[Dani]

Thanks Aces, I know you aren’t trying to bash me (thanks for the compliment on the saddle I love the looks too), I just don’t tolerate rude people well. You, and others, are being helpful, not rude and I thank you all for that. At this point I’m considering spending the winter in the old saddle and building topline through then and seeing if that helps saddle fit. The old one doesn’t fit as well all over, but with the built-up pad it won’t make her sore. Luckily she’s not sore in the back or loin, it’s just the surface rubs. With the current saddle I’m trying not to over pad her because the tree is a closer fit to her back, I don’t want to add much because she does move better in that one. I’m actually amazed that she only gives me a little head toss now and then as a complaint while in this saddle. She’s normally a very reactive horse. Either way, I was hoping for a simple fix :\ I’m not so lucky there. I do appreciate the feedback and the resources provided, except the obvious. I am still interested to see if anyone has tried the hole in the pad at this point more out of curiosity than anything else. The maker said that worked for withers…

[Aces_N_Eights]

Maybe try a regular ol’ 1/2 inch wool or fleece pad and see how it works.

I really dont see a whole lot of relief in the skirts of saddles I use via the binding unless they are full on square skirts or a tree that has more rock than usual. Never heard of cutting the braiding/binding until coming onto this site. That is new to me. If anything really sored a horse over the loins it was down the road.

Like I said the only time I ve known anyone to cut out a pad was for an abnormality in a shoulder(older team roping horses usually) so beyond what I can advise using my experience.

I hope it works out Dani.