Sudden Head Flipping/Shaking

[phoenixrises]

I’ve done a fair bit of reading on the syndrome and I’m not convinced that’s it. But if you can make it through the long story I’m about to write, I’d love some ideas of what to look for. I live in a very rural area. And while I have access to, two horse vets, neither are one for the off the wall stuff. Cornell is an option if we can’t get it solved.

Started a little over two weeks ago, particularly transitioning into the canter. It felt at first like evasion. She’d hit the bit then flip her nose out 2-3 times but then go to work. It has gotten progressively worse and now we are seeing it at the trot (very very little bit at the walk). Happens, in dressage saddle and bridle, happens when longing (in bridle and side reins), happens in jumping gear, happens with two different riders. Until yesterday both myself and the person who jumps her thought it was evasion, but yesterday it went up a notch and she was unrideable.

Other than this head flipping she looks amazing, in really good weight, moving forward and we’ve had quite the breakthrough at dressage and she’s really starting to use herself. She is moving very nicely, often even right after a head shaking episode, she’ll move forward into the contact, then BAM like she hits a brick wall, her head flips, and sometimes that’s it, and sometimes she’s then wicked tense.

At this point I"m giving her the benefit of the doubt, and saying there’s pain somewhere. She did have her teeth done right around the time this whole thing started, dentist said her teeth looked great and that she didn’t need to do much. Could she have taken too much tooth? I’ll admit my knowledge of horse mouth anatomy is limited.

ETA: I forgot to add, I was able to tell with the other rider that at least during two of the flipping episodes she got her tongue over the bit. Tried raising the bit and still did it one more time. I can’t guarantee she’s putting her tongue over for every flip, but she is doing it at some points. . . What could this be and WHY the heck would it start now two years later. . .

Things I’m thinking of doing/trying:

1. Call vet out pull blood, check for Lyme, anything else and have vet look in her mouth. (I’m doing this no question)
2. Try longing in just a halter and see if the behavior is there
3. Bute in the morning, ride in the afternoon and see if that helps (that at least says there’s pain somewhere)
4. Ride in a hackamore (rules out mouth pain)
5. Ride in full fly mask (if it’s the syndrome this often helps)
6. Ride in nose net (same as above)

Does anyone have anything else they can think of, that could cause this (and have it escalate so badly)? Anything I should bring up to the vet?

[Laurierace]

Does she do it when turned out? Was she vaccinated recently?

[ladymcts]

Sounds like you’ve got some good ideas on diagnostics.

I think I’d stay focused on the mouth. The fact that it started near the teeth floating would seem to suggest that as well. When I lived near Chicago, I had an equine dentist who did teeth by hand and read me the riot act on how terrible power tools are, and argued that too much tooth could be taken off. How true any of that is, I don’t know, but where I’ve moved to, I haven’t found anyone who does teeth by hand anymore. But also keep in mind that a mouth can become sore for other reasons than just teeth growing too long. The horse could’ve taken in a sharp bur or splinter of wood with its hay, causing a sore or infection. There could be a tooth infection. She could’ve gotten kicked or bitten in the pasture, harming the jaw or teeth.

Other than teeth, there’s also ears. Might be worth a look to make sure there are no ticks burrowed in there, or anthing else that’s crawled in there. Maybe I’m just sensitive to that because the other night something crawled into my ear as I was sleeping (woke me up), so now I’m paranoid about it.

Be careful with the hackamore … just because it’s not a bit going inside the mouth doesn’t mean it has no potential to deliver pain. If it’s an infected tooth or damage from a kick, that hackamore could potentially hit at an even worse spot. I would only try that after having the vet inspect the mouth.

Chiro adjustment. It could also be that she’s getting a “twinge” of pain somewhere else as she’s getting ready to transition or jump, and the head shaking is just a way of expressing it.

Good luck with her!

[frugalannie]

Oh I’m so sorry. Stuff like this is heartbreaking, whether or not it’s actually headshaking.

For brevity, skip this paragraph which is just my story. Last paragraph will outline ideas. Five years ago my OTTB competition mare came in from pasture a 7out of 10 headshaker. It was sudden onset and within a very short time she was considered unsafe to ride. When turned out she would rub her head on another horse or rub her muzzle on the dirt to relieve her discomfort. Under saddle she would be trying really hard to be good, but the head would start flipping and elevating to the point that it wasn’t clear to anyone that she could see where she was going. It has gotten a bit better over time, but I can’t really say it’s gone away. It’s seasonal, but the first year it went away in the fall and then came back in February for a few weeks, went away again. Date of onset has progressively gotten later in the year, but is too irregular to tie to anything specific like pollen or insects.

In my mare’s case the working diagnosis was trigeminal neuritis caused by Lyme infection* (which has been reported in humans). This was because we found that we could elicit the headshaking by stimulating the trigeminal nerve on the right side of her face (but not left).

What we tried:

1. Nothing. That didn’t work.
2. Bute. Seemed to help a bit in the initial presentation at 2 grams a day, but any attempt to wean her off resulted in worse symptoms and eventually didn’t work even at 2 gms.
   3.* Treat for neurologic Lyme. When symptoms first started, I asked my vet to pull blood and freeze it. A couple of weeks later we ran it for Lyme and the results were very high positive titers. Doxycycline alone didn’t have any impact (and mare is highly allergic to IV oxytetracycline) so oral Doxy was combined with oral rifampin and that worked like a charm…a very messy and expensive charm. Both antibiotics used for 30 days, then doxy alone for 30 days. At the end there were no symptoms. BUT they returned at other times. (And we did this a second time when her titer warranted it.)
3. Chiropractic manipulation of the temperal-mandibular joint (TMJ). Sometimes this seemed to help, sometimes it didn’t, but given your horse’s history of dental work, might be something to consider.
4. Keeping horse out of bright sunlight. This seems to help in the height of summer when symptoms are at their worst. But it strikes me that bright sunny days, even with a snow cover don’t cause symptoms at all, so darkness during an outbreak may just help soothe rather than remove the cause.
5. Ulcerguard. During one “off season” outbreak, 3 days of ulcerguard stopped the symptoms cold. Never happened during any other outbreaks though.
6. Regumate. (This one is off the wall.) As no one could tell me that headshaking was hereditary, I decided to breed the mare. Because she twinned and one had to be pinched, she was on regumate for 120 days. She had no headshaking symptoms. Because of pregnancy or regumate, I couldn’t tell you. I wasn’t about to stop the regumate and endanger the pregnancy to find out! Now with foal at side, mare is slightly symptomatic, but not too bad. We bred early so the foal would have a bit of size by the usual seasonal start of headshaking, by the way.

Best of luck working this out. I truly hope that a cause can be found that can be addressed.

[phoenixrises]

FrugalAnnie. So some questions, this mare does not show any signs out side of work at the moment. Nothing in the stall or on turn out (at night right now). Is it typical for those with the actual syndrome to do it everywhere, or only have it be work related?

[oldbutnotdead]

Any chance she is getting her tongue over the bit?

[phoenixrises]

[QUOTE=oldbutnotdead;8762715]
Any chance she is getting her tongue over the bit?[/QUOTE]

YES! Crap I completely forgot that part! I was on the ground watching the other person ride which typically doesn’t happen. And she did do it twice at least that I could see. But it didn’t look like she did it every time she flipped. . .

No gear or bits have changed, she’s ridden in a full cheek (with keepers) french link for jumping and a egg butt with a lozenge for dressage. Wide nose band for dressage and a flash with jumping. The time I know she did it (yesterday) she was in the jumping stuff because that’s what the other person is more comfortable in.

So if this is not a symptom but a cause, what would suddenly make her get her tongue over the bit. And it would explain why she’s less likely to do it when I’m really working her butt in dressage.

[betonbill]

While you’re thinking of other things, just try going straight to either the riding fly mask with nose guard or the nose net and see what happens. I wasted a lot of years of trying to rule out behavioral problems instead of just accepting the head flipping syndrome. Since using the nose net I’ve had no problems and am able to enjoy my horse. He had other symptoms (nose scratching, etc.) for years before, but I didn’t put things together.

If the nose/face nets work, then you can also try investigating other things. But try that first and see what happens.

[frugalannie]

[QUOTE=phoenixrises;8762665]
FrugalAnnie. So some questions, this mare does not show any signs out side of work at the moment. Nothing in the stall or on turn out (at night right now). Is it typical for those with the actual syndrome to do it everywhere, or only have it be work related?[/QUOTE]

I wish I could tell you that there’s a “typical” with head shakers, but the symptoms and responses are all over the ballpark.

My mare showed symptoms under tack and also when turned out during the daylight hours IF the temp was above 72. Wind seemed to make it worse. Cool, cloudy days didn’t seem to be a problem, but you can’t count on those to show or get a horse fit.

In the stall, she’d snort quite a bit and would wiggle her upper lip. We figured that this was her trying to put a positive signal though her trigeminal nerve to stop the constant and often painful “jangling” that nerve was causing with its random firing. (If that doesn’t make sense, I can try to explain another way. But be advised, this is me trying to interpret neurology!)

By the way, all the literature will tell you that headshaking is much more common in geldings. So you and I are “lucky”.

[phoenixrises]

I’m wondering is it similar to Restless Leg Syndrome in humans? I have that so if it’s similar I can at least attest to wanting to move the leg to end the odd and sometimes painful sensations.

I will say Wednesday when she was particularly bad for me was very very windy. Yesterday no wind but quite hot and humid which is NOT typical for where we live.

[connemarafan]

Get your vet to look in her ears also, I had a connie who all of a sudden would just fall down in the trailer. Long story short she had a tiny piece of straw lodged in her inner ear that was badly affecting her balance. Worth adding to your list of things to check!

[oldbutnotdead]

My horse gets his tongue over the bit sometimes when he is acting very feisty and resistant. He has a move with his head like when you flip a pancake in the pan. We’ve raised the bit in his mouth by putting the cheekpieces up a hole. He can still do it sometimes. He acts exactly like you describe when his tongue is over the bit. Once I rebridle him, he acts like nothing happened.

[caryledee]

Here was my horse a couple of years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ_4dUuvWrI It progressed like you said…first just a little bit where I thought he was evading me and progressed to what you see in the video. He is doing great now. There are a couple of days a month where I can’t ride him. When they cut the grass it seems to make it worse. My treatment has been: 1. Micklem bridle 2. Nose net 3. Fly mask on sunny days 4. Remission supplement 5. Benadryl. Honestly I don’t know if the benadryl does anything for the headshaking but he gets it for allergies. He also has had some TMJ issues and gets adjusted about once a year for it. I would start with the simple stuff (nose net, magnesium, fly mask) and see what happens. Also keep a journal of how it is and the weather and light conditions and hopefully you will start to see a pattern. Good luck!

[marogers01]

[QUOTE=betonbill;8762729]
While you’re thinking of other things, just try going straight to either the riding fly mask with nose guard or the nose net and see what happens. I wasted a lot of years of trying to rule out behavioral problems instead of just accepting the head flipping syndrome. Since using the nose net I’ve had no problems and am able to enjoy my horse. He had other symptoms (nose scratching, etc.) for years before, but I didn’t put things together.

If the nose/face nets work, then you can also try investigating other things. But try that first and see what happens.[/QUOTE]

I second betonbill’s recommendation. I too spent a lot of time trying various medications, fancy (and expensive) equipment and other things. And then I put the waist of a pair of pantyhose over his nose, and that took care of it. I would recommend you try the pantyhose over the nose net, because it’s quick and cheap and you’ll know immediately if it has an effect. Then, if you want to look a little less ridiculous you can purchase a nose net. The nose net doesn’t work as well with my horse as the pantyhose did. It just flopped around and didn’t apply enough pressure to his nose. So I made a tie out of a strip of the pantyhose material and looped it through the noseband over of the net and tied it under his chin. He hates it but it works. Here’s an awesome video on how to do the pantyhose. This guy’s accent cracks me up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRcTl3HGdSY
Good luck!

[rothmpp]

My horse decided last spring to develop a bit of a head shake. I now ride in a ear bonnet from April to October. For us, it was changing the narrative.

If there is a physical diagnosis, this might not help, but for us it was a lifesaver.

[HiJumpGrrl]

Mine did this sudden onset after an illness. Dust seemed to make it worse. Did thorough medical work up. Scoped him–guttural pouch was clean (thank god). Lyme is not endemic where I live, so did not test that. It was not concurrent with vaccinations (it has been associated with the flu/rhino vaccine). Read everything I could, and vet agreed to do short burst of dex (20mg x 5 days). Went away after first dose. has not recurred, but am ready if it does.

Are nose nets/hoes legal to compete in? I know they are in British Eventing.

[phoenixrises]

Marogers thanks so much for that link. Went to barn took her outside with halter and longeline. It wasn’t very sunny but it was quite windy.

First video

With fly mask that had nose piece

It got quite a bit worse with a lot of snorting with the nose mask. Not in video but she stopped and started rubbing her nose on the ground.

After this I took her to the indoor without the mask and she got MUCH better. Not 100% as she still did it going into the canter but that was the only time.

Tomorrow I’ll try the pantyhose linked to above. But then what’s next? Try an antihistamine?

[betonbill]

[QUOTE=marogers01;8763395]
I second betonbill’s recommendation. I too spent a lot of time trying various medications, fancy (and expensive) equipment and other things. And then I put the waist of a pair of pantyhose over his nose, and that took care of it. I would recommend you try the pantyhose over the nose net, because it’s quick and cheap and you’ll know immediately if it has an effect. Then, if you want to look a little less ridiculous you can purchase a nose net. The nose net doesn’t work as well with my horse as the pantyhose did. It just flopped around and didn’t apply enough pressure to his nose. So I made a tie out of a strip of the pantyhose material and looped it through the noseband over of the net and tied it under his chin. He hates it but it works. Here’s an awesome video on how to do the pantyhose. This guy’s accent cracks me up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRcTl3HGdSY
Good luck![/QUOTE]

Cool video. I never could figure out how to arrange the pantyhose around his nose, and nobody else did either. The Cashel nose net is inexpensive enough so I just went ahead with that. My pet theory is that the net changes/breaks up the way the air flows around and into the nostrils, interrupting to some extent the sensation the horse feels. From the video, though my horse never shook his head quite as badly, the snorting is identical.

For what it’s worth, I’ve tried a magnesium “calming” supplement from TS that is inexpensive, and seems to help a little bit, maybe enough so that my horse is a bit more comfortable. Also, when the allergies or whatever are especially bad, he does travel behind a trusted companion with his nose pressed against the other horse’s tail. Through the years it seems that the discomfort has somewhat lessened–he was absolutely miserable at first. Not a fun thing to have to deal with, but there seem to be ways to get around it.

[PossumHorse]

I’m going to be the exception and tell you to look at the hind end, hocks or whatever. You said you just stepped up her dressage work. For my guy this can be an evasion when no other avenues are available (due to better riding?) and he’s being asked to work harder. It could be just that she needs time to build strength or it could be something that needs to be addressed more strongly. It could be simply her saying - do I really have to work this hard? For the short term I recommend applying leg and riding through it.

Watch to see if she’s better at the beginning of a ride or after a day off (assuming good turnout for movement).

[HiJumpGrrl]

That does not look like HS I have seen.