Sudden Lameness, Muscle Cramps, Demeanor Change?

[AQH]

[QUOTE=scruffy the cat;9014808]
I am following with GREAT interest as I am going through exactly the same thing with my horse right now. No muscle trembling but every other detail is exactly the same. My horse is also presenting with symptoms of sleep deprivation.

I’m awaiting test results for Lyme and crossing my fingers that that is it and not something much more scary and debilitating.[/QUOTE]

Wow, so sorry to hear about your horse. It truly is frustrating isn’t it? It’s hard when you run out of ideas and don’t know how to proceed and of course there is always the fear of it being something much worse.

Fingers crossed for your horse and please follow up with the results!

[AQH]

[QUOTE=alterhorse;9014760]
Just for the sake of throwing a few more ideas out there…

A fecal flotation to check parasite load.

Scope to check the extent of stomach ulceration, if ulcers do exist.

Certain horses can be prone to food sensitivity that can manifest as abdominal pain. know what’s in your horses diet and consider a slow shift to a different feed program (AKA elimination diet).

Clean the horses sheath and check for beans.

Hock, stifle and SI joint can all present as hind end stiffness.

Lyme disease.

EPM.

Are the horses X-rays clean?

Intermittent locking stifles. Observe the patellas and hind leg range of movement while leading the horse down a hill.

Take some time to just sit at the edge of his paddock and observe the horse move while turned out. Note how the horse carries himself at liberty. It might lead to clues.

Any of the metabolic disorders mentioned might be affecting the horse.

These “mysteriously suddenly turned grumpy horses” can be very frustrating to figure out. Scientific method detective work is the best way I know of finding answers.

Some horses can just sour from a bad experience.

I’ve seen crappy/bad barn help cause all sorts of behavioral problems in horses too.

Lots of times people will just give such horses a lot of time off and it resolves itself.

A good equine massage therapist skilled at diagnostics might be able to provide some feedback as well.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I forgot to mention - x-rays for kissing spine were completely clean.

[RedHorses]

Did your vet test for vitamin E and selenium levels? These are specific and should show as separate line items on your bill. You would not get these in a CBC. Did your vet check for elevated muscle enzymes? Again, this is a separate test and in not part of a CBC (complete blood count).

[AQH]

[QUOTE=RedHorses;9014952]
Did your vet test for vitamin E and selenium levels? These are specific and should show as separate line items on your bill. You would not get these in a CBC. Did your vet check for elevated muscle enzymes? Again, this is a separate test and in not part of a CBC (complete blood count).[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately there was no test for Vitamin E or selenium. His blood was tested for Total Protein, Albumin, Globulin, AST (SGOT), Alk Phosphatase, GGTP (low, 1, normal range 2-36), Bilirubin, BUN, Creatinine (low, 86, normal range 88.4-176.8), Phosphorus, Glucose, Calcium, Sodium, Potassium (high, 4.9, normal range 2.4-4.7), Chloride, Cholesterol, CPK, LDH (high 545, normal range 81-390), WBC, RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, MCV, MCH, MCHC, Platelet Count, Neutrophils (low, 2.32, normal range 2.7 - 7.00), Lymphs, Monocytes, Eosinophils, and Basophils

[piedmontfields]

The Vit E/Se level testing is a good idea.

Have you tried reducing dietary sugars/non-structural carbs to see if that is helpful (even though this is not obviously a case of PSSM, it probably wouldn’t hurt to try).

[AQH]

[QUOTE=piedmontfields;9015001]
The Vit E/Se level testing is a good idea.

Have you tried reducing dietary sugars/non-structural carbs to see if that is helpful (even though this is not obviously a case of PSSM, it probably wouldn’t hurt to try).[/QUOTE]

I agree and will be calling the vet to test these values.

He currently gets Purina Equilizer as a daily supplement as well as beet pulp which I have made sure to tell my barn owners needs to be without molasses. I can try incorporating more fat in his diet to see if it makes a difference.

[Posting_Trot]

I don’t know what kind of Vit. E the Purina supplement you give him has, but natural vit. E is better absorbed and used by horses than is the synthetic.

For selenium, the selenium yeast version is also much better used than are selenium salts.

Here is an interesting piece on Vit. E and selenium absorption:
http://www.equinews.com/article/selenium-for-horses-how-important-is-it

[piedmontfields]

Obviously looking at your hay (hay analysis) and considering different pasture and turnout options (if there is pasture) is another angle. The Purina Equalizer is very low NSC, but does have ingredient that a problem for some horses (ex. soy). The beet pulp could be soaked/rinsed (to lower sugar).

Let us know what you find out. I know it is very frustrating.

[AQH]

[QUOTE=Posting Trot;9015025]
I don’t know what kind of Vit. E the Purina supplement you give him has, but natural vit. E is better absorbed and used by horses than is the synthetic.

For selenium, the selenium yeast version is also much better used than are selenium salts.

Here is an interesting piece on Vit. E and selenium absorption:
http://www.equinews.com/article/selenium-for-horses-how-important-is-it[/QUOTE]

It’s frustrating that they don’t provide more information about their feed - all that I can see is that it says “organic minerals”. I suppose I could always call and see if contains natural or synthetic vitamin E.

[AQH]

[QUOTE=piedmontfields;9015069]
Obviously looking at your hay (hay analysis) and considering different pasture and turnout options (if there is pasture) is another angle. The Purina Equalizer is very low NSC, but does have ingredient that a problem for some horses (ex. soy). The beet pulp could be soaked/rinsed (to lower sugar).

Let us know what you find out. I know it is very frustrating.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. It is incredibly frustrating, I would be lying if I said I hadn’t broken down in tears worrying about him!

Where I’m currently boarding has no pasture access. He is outside 24/7 with access to round bales all the time. There is a place I can send hay for analysis right here in my closest city and apparently isn’t incredibly expensive according to one of my professors. He had access to very lush pastures at his old barn and I did find he was better in the summer when he had grass and hay.

He has been on Equilizer ever since I got him 6 years ago. My barn owner does soak the beet pulp and does buy the kind without molasses. I spoke with her and she doesn’t mind continuing to buy it specifically for him.

[alterhorse]

[QUOTE=AQH;9014928]
I can try to get a video if it might help anyone. I am so thankful for everyone’s input.[/QUOTE]

Video would be helpful.

Simplest to make might be a video of W/T/C (canter optional) on a lunge line in both directions. Try to get a good (video) angles on the transitions, and show the horse moving at each gate. If you can (hand lead) jog the horse towards and away from the camera person that’s helpful too.

[AQH]

[QUOTE=alterhorse;9015324]
Video would be helpful.

Simplest to make might be a video of W/T/C (canter optional) on a lunge line in both directions. Try to get a good (video) angles on the transitions, and show the horse moving at each gate. If you can (hand lead) jog the horse towards and away from the camera person that’s helpful too.[/QUOTE]

All right I will head out today and do my best to get a video!

[bugsynskeeter]

[QUOTE=AQH;9015422]
All right I will head out today and do my best to get a video![/QUOTE]

Take a video long wise, not holding the phone straight up and down. Makes it easier to see.

[piedmontfields]

OP, I re-read the thread and realized that you moved to Canada!

So, the other “low tech” idea I’ll mention now is to make sure he is staying warm/well blanketed. My PSSM mare gets very unhappy if she is not warm enough—and for her that means she has a sheet on if its under 55 F.

[JB]

Hay-only diets really need a good amount of added Vit E. A ration balancer doesn’t really provide enough. I’d be adding 2000IU on top of that, for a horse who works (or is large) and doesn’t get grass.

Drafts don’t have HYPP. An unregistered “draft” is more likely a draft x QH, which is where the HYPP would have come from. Impressive is the origin of the disease, and would not be part of any purebred draft.

[Carolinadreamin]

Test for Lyme ASAP.

[AKB]

EPM? When my horse had EPM, his tail was crooked, he didn’t want to be groomed and didn’t want to work. After 3 days of Orogin (the cheap EPM med), he was normal. Read the Pathogenes website and see if any of the symptoms fit. If so,get a neuro exam and SAG blood testing. I would also consider a Lyme test.

I wonder if the elevated LDH is from some sort of muscle disease/PSSM.

Good luck. Mystery illnesses are not fun.

[AQH]

[QUOTE=piedmontfields;9015537]
OP, I re-read the thread and realized that you moved to Canada!

So, the other “low tech” idea I’ll mention now is to make sure he is staying warm/well blanketed. My PSSM mare gets very unhappy if she is not warm enough—and for her that means she has a sheet on if its under 55 F.[/QUOTE]

Oops - sorry! I have lived in Canada my whole life and so has Remi. i just moved within Ontario for school! He has never really been blanketed except for a couple very cold winters!

[AQH]

[QUOTE=JB;9015830]
Hay-only diets really need a good amount of added Vit E. A ration balancer doesn’t really provide enough. I’d be adding 2000IU on top of that, for a horse who works (or is large) and doesn’t get grass.

Drafts don’t have HYPP. An unregistered “draft” is more likely a draft x QH, which is where the HYPP would have come from. Impressive is the origin of the disease, and would not be part of any purebred draft.[/QUOTE]

Low Vitamin E seems to be a common idea, so I will be getting the vet back out for another blood test for Vitamin E as well as Selenium and then if his levels are low I will be able to supplement accordingly. Also will be testing the hay!

[AQH]

[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;9015842]
Test for Lyme ASAP.[/QUOTE]

Lyme, low Vitamin E and selenium seem to be pretty common suggestions. I will get the vet to test for these next.