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Sudden Lameness, Muscle Cramps, Demeanor Change?

[QUOTE=AKB;9015908]
EPM? When my horse had EPM, his tail was crooked, he didn’t want to be groomed and didn’t want to work. After 3 days of Orogin (the cheap EPM med), he was normal. Read the Pathogenes website and see if any of the symptoms fit. If so,get a neuro exam and SAG blood testing. I would also consider a Lyme test.

I wonder if the elevated LDH is from some sort of muscle disease/PSSM.

Good luck. Mystery illnesses are not fun.[/QUOTE]

You’re not kidding. It is really not a fun thing to be dealing with.

Someone else has suggesting EPM and others have suggested lyme as well. I will look more into EPM but the vet will be testing for lyme for sure!

Unfortunately couldn’t get a video tonight. I was taping him w/t/c when my phone died and apparently it has erased everything! It will have to wait until tomorrow however I couldn’t get out until this evening anyway and the lights are very dim in the indoor. I’ll go earlier tomorrow during the day and the video will be better with some natural light to work with!

The general consensus seems to be to test blood again for lyme, Vitamin e, and Selenium so will be starting there. Until I can have the vet out I will collect some hay tomorrow and have it tested - there is a place right here that tests it so hopefully that can give me a better idea as to what all he is getting in his diet.

As for tonight when I went out, it was quite a good day for him (I think because the weather has been a bit milder here). We worked through w/t/c on the lunge and he was pretty good, no lameness present today. I cleaned his sheath and removed a bean as well.

All right, I finally have a video! Please excuse how disheveled he looks - it is raining here.

I worked through w/t/c with him. I chose to do this off the lunge line as it was too hard to hold the line and the camera in the same hand! Either way, this video shows a typical day with him. Not a good day or a bad day, but a typical day.

As you can see he is very compliant at the walk, however as soon as I ask for a trot or a lope I get a very grumpy horse. Ears back, tail swishing most of the time, as well as some head tossing. When he does trot he is quite sluggish and really just doesn’t want any part of it. As far as asking for a lope, he throws his head up, ears go back, and he will pick up the lope however is, again, unhappy about it and can not hold the gait for a very long time without breaking to the trot. I should also mention that he tends to stumble as well - you can see it once in the video and it actually happened another time today however that was not captured on video.

Again, I really don’t feel as though this is a training issue due to the fact that his behaviour and attitude towards work seemingly changed overnight and changes with weather. Additionally, I do get after him to perform the requested gaits.

It is just very exhausting to deal with this every day that I am working with him. No one seems to understand just how taxing it is to have a horse with a medical mystery, and having the vet out constantly to test blood, do chiro, etc. with no real headway as to what we may be dealing with is quite upsetting. I love Remington and just want him to get better. Thanks again to everyone for putting so much time and thought into their answers and giving me more ideas to work with.

I grabbed hay today and will be dropping it off for analysis.

Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAPOf_blhsg&feature=youtu.be

All right, I finally have a video! Please excuse how disheveled he looks - it is raining here.

I worked through w/t/c with him. I chose to do this off the lunge line as it was too hard to hold the line and the camera in the same hand! Either way, this video shows a typical day with him. Not a good day or a bad day, but a typical day.

As you can see he is very compliant at the walk, however as soon as I ask for a trot or a lope I get a very grumpy horse. Ears back, tail swishing most of the time, as well as some head tossing. When he does trot he is quite sluggish and really just doesn’t want any part of it. As far as asking for a lope, he throws his head up, ears go back, and he will pick up the lope however is, again, unhappy about it and can not hold the gait for a very long time without breaking to the trot. I should also mention that he tends to stumble as well - you can see it once in the video and it actually happened another time today however that was not captured on video.

Again, I really don’t feel as though this is a training issue due to the fact that his behaviour and attitude towards work seemingly changed overnight and changes with weather. Additionally, I do get after him to perform the requested gaits.

It is just very exhausting to deal with this every day that I am working with him. No one seems to understand just how taxing it is to have a horse with a medical mystery, and having the vet out constantly to test blood, do chiro, etc. with no real headway as to what we may be dealing with is quite upsetting. I love Remington and just want him to get better. Thanks again to everyone for putting so much time and thought into their answers and giving me more ideas to work with.

I grabbed hay today and will be dropping it off for analysis.

Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAPOf_blhsg&feature=youtu.be

Video link says video has be removed .

Sorry - my bad. Here is a new link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=Gdwm7_mx0Q8

[QUOTE=AQH;9017069]
Sorry - my bad. Here is a new link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=Gdwm7_mx0Q8[/QUOTE]

To me it looks like Remi is moving similar to a horse with Lyme or PSSM. Not a for sure conclusion though.

I’m not seeing any consistent asymmetry in any of the gates, just stiffness. Iv’e seen lazy horses move like this too, but you’ll see a lazy horse “light up” occasionally when turned out, or when motivated properly. You say this is new behavior, so I’m thinking more some physical cause just as you are.

I think I’d be ruling out neurological disorders, metabolic disorders, Vit E deficiency as others mentioned, toxicology, parasitic infection, anything that can cause general muscle stiffness or general systemic weakness.

Can you provide a “day in the life” of Remington?
In other words…What’s his average daily routine like?

Hay, feed-type-quantity, supplement-type-quantity, turnout kind and size, water sources, turnout companions, behavioral patterns, exercise, etc…

Format like this…

7AM (List feed(s), supplement(s), and type of hay w/quantities given)

9AM (Turnout with x number of other horses.)

12PM (Comes in for brushing, ride, etc.)

Etc.

Etc.

I’l keep thinking about Remi, hope other cother’s will chime in with their thoughts too.

fwiw, my horse just came back positive for Lyme.

[QUOTE=alterhorse;9017468]
To me it looks like Remi is moving similar to a horse with Lyme or PSSM. Not a for sure conclusion though.

I’m not seeing any consistent asymmetry in any of the gates, just stiffness. Iv’e seen lazy horses move like this too, but you’ll see a lazy horse “light up” occasionally when turned out, or when motivated properly. You say this is new behavior, so I’m thinking more some physical cause just as you are.

I think I’d be ruling out neurological disorders, metabolic disorders, Vit E deficiency as others mentioned, toxicology, parasitic infection, anything that can cause general muscle stiffness or general systemic weakness.

Can you provide a “day in the life” of Remington?
In other words…What’s his average daily routine like?

Hay, feed-type-quantity, supplement-type-quantity, turnout kind and size, water sources, turnout companions, behavioral patterns, exercise, etc…

Format like this…

7AM (List feed(s), supplement(s), and type of hay w/quantities given)

9AM (Turnout with x number of other horses.)

12PM (Comes in for brushing, ride, etc.)

Etc.

Etc.

I’l keep thinking about Remi, hope other cother’s will chime in with their thoughts too.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your kind words. This type of movement combined with the muscle cramping I’ve seen is why I considered PSSM as well. A typical day for him looks like this:

8 AM: Barn owner comes, brings him in from pasture and puts him in a stall for feeding. He gets one 3 qt scoop of beet pulp (I made sure she is only feeding the kind without molasses ever since I started suspecting PSSM) as well as 2 cups of Purina Equilizer. Along with this he gets one scoop of Herbs for Horses Serenity and is additionally still on 20 mL of omeprazole. When he’s finished eating he is put back outside with his buddies.

10 / 11 AM: Usually I will show up around this time, lately I have been coming in the evenings around 5 PM however try to get out in the morning. I bring him inside, brush him up and lately have just been lunging him since the muscle cramping started. We really don’t do much, will lunge over ground poles, lunge w/t/c, depending on how his movement is.

And that’s basically it. He is outside 24/7 so he gets hay all the time (timothy) and is with four other geldings. They all get along well and behave normally. Most of the time they munch on hay but sometimes will goof around like geldings do. He has access to water which the barn owner changes twice a day from a large trough. It is also heated for the winter. Paddock size, if I had to hazard a guess, 5 acres or so? Has access to a run in. No access to grass, however (not that there’s any this time of year though) so his diet simply consists of hay and the grain that he gets. The yard is fairly busy and a landscaping company is run out of it, so there are trucks and cars coming and going quite frequently. There are quite a few other boarders and probably about 20 more horses on the property in other paddocks.

I had a conversation with one of my professors today about hay analysis, and she said that selenium is basically non existent in hay here, so will be testing the hay and considering his grain and making adjustments as need be when his blood results are back. Fingers crossed that this can be fixed with a simple diet change but I have learned not to get my hopes up!

[QUOTE=scruffy the cat;9017476]
fwiw, my horse just came back positive for Lyme.[/QUOTE]

So sorry to hear. What sort of symptoms did you notice to prompt you to test for lyme?

No- Lyme is GREAT. He’s the horse I mentioned upthread that has symptoms that are nearly identical to your horse. Formerly nice, forward, easy-going horse, now it seems like it hurts him to even touch his mane. Grooming bothers him, riding makes him pin his ears and suck back, he moves like an old man, and he’s just plain crochety. Around here, we always test first for Lyme when those symptoms present- it’s just the most common diagnosis. He’ll start antibiotics on Monday and usually they are extremely effective at making them feel dramatically better.

[QUOTE=scruffy the cat;9017503]
No- Lyme is GREAT. He’s the horse I mentioned upthread that has symptoms that are nearly identical to your horse. Formerly nice, forward, easy-going horse, now it seems like it hurts him to even touch his mane. Grooming bothers him, riding makes him pin his ears and suck back, he moves like an old man, and he’s just plain crochety. Around here, we always test first for Lyme when those symptoms present- it’s just the most common diagnosis. He’ll start antibiotics on Monday and usually they are extremely effective at making them feel dramatically better.[/QUOTE]

Well that’s good to hear! I’m glad he is getting the help he needs! That description sounds a lot like Remi. Lyme really isn’t all that common here so I suppose that could be why my vet didn’t suggest it. Nonetheless after showing my video this seems to be a common thought.

He seems to move very short in the front. Did the vet do nerve blocks of the heels to see if it could be navicular? How is he on hard surfaces like pavement? Hard surfaces often make the lameness of navicular more obvious. I would also want a neuro exam, although his hind end looks good to me in the video. If he has navicular, good shoeing and injections may have him back to soundness in a couple of days. If you aren’t getting anywhere with your vet, it is time to go to a vet school clinic to see a surgeon/lameness specialist.

[QUOTE=AKB;9017693]
He seems to move very short in the front. Did the vet do nerve blocks of the heels to see if it could be navicular? How is he on hard surfaces like pavement? Hard surfaces often make the lameness of navicular more obvious. I would also want a neuro exam, although his hind end looks good to me in the video. If he has navicular, good shoeing and injections may have him back to soundness in a couple of days. If you aren’t getting anywhere with your vet, it is time to go to a vet school clinic to see a surgeon/lameness specialist.[/QUOTE]

No, unfortunately the vet didn’t propose this as an idea for him and has been leaning more in the direction of general muscle soreness due to his increased sensitivity which I just don’t think is the case anymore, given that he showed no improvement on methocarbamol. He has had neuro exams in the past which did not show anything out of the ordinary however it would be worthwhile to check it out again.

As far as walking on pavement goes, we used to do a lot of trail riding and frequently road on pavement and other hard surfaces with no problem however I have been unable to trail ride for some time due to his increased reactivity and have only been riding and exercising in the arena. He generally is not walking on any hard surfaces although when the ground froze he had a hard time walking because of the uneven surface however all of the horses did (this went away once we had snow covering the ground in the paddock). He did not show up visibly lame after this.

He has only had front end lameness one other time in his life where he had swelling in the front left carpal joint however I had the vet out and we promptly took care of it and allowed him rest to fully recover.

He is certainly not lame in the hind end here and it was really the one occurrence where he was visibly lame in the hind end - left rear seemed to collapse beneath him, stride because visibly shorter and stiffer in the back, he became more grumpy and sore, after which he experienced the muscle cramps.

I have never considered navicular but I will mention this to my vet and farrier.

See what your vet and farrier say. Either can put hoof testers on him and see if he has heel soreness. The farrier will look at the foot shape and can tell you if he is concerned. You can do a basic neuro exam yourself. Look at the videos on the Pathogenes website. If your horse crosses his feet strangely when you walk in a very tight circle or has trouble walking down hill, tell your vet and ask for a complete neuro exam.

I would be headed to a big clinic. He looks like a nice horse who is worth figuring out. Tell them you are on a budget, but want to know as much as possible without spending a big pile of money.

[QUOTE=AKB;9017738]
See what your vet and farrier say. Either can put hoof testers on him and see if he has heel soreness. The farrier will look at the foot shape and can tell you if he is concerned. You can do a basic neuro exam yourself. Look at the videos on the Pathogenes website. If your horse crosses his feet strangely when you walk in a very tight circle or has trouble walking down hill, tell your vet and ask for a complete neuro exam.

I would be headed to a big clinic. He looks like a nice horse who is worth figuring out. Tell them you are on a budget, but want to know as much as possible without spending a big pile of money.[/QUOTE]

He did have hoof testers used by my farrier last month and she said there was nothing to be concerned about however his behaviour has changed so it is possible things have progressed.

He really is a great horse, before all of this happened he was incredibly athletic and willing to do anything. Great on trails and really just an all around level headed horse. I appreciate your help and kind words. I am trying to search for an old video of his movement for comparison purposes.

I know a large handful of people in areas where Lyme “isn’t that common” and vets poo-poo the notion of it, yet it was exactly their horses’ problem.

Lyme is being proven to be in more places, and more common, than thought. It’s such an easy thing to test for that even if it’s not high on the list of possibilities, if the symptoms remotely seem to fit, test. It’s MUCH better to know sooner, and treat, rather than dismiss it out of hand and finally test a year later, then deal with chronic Lyme issues.

[QUOTE=JB;9017773]
I know a large handful of people in areas where Lyme “isn’t that common” and vets poo-poo the notion of it, yet it was exactly their horses’ problem.

Lyme is being proven to be in more places, and more common, than thought. It’s such an easy thing to test for that even if it’s not high on the list of possibilities, if the symptoms remotely seem to fit, test. It’s MUCH better to know sooner, and treat, rather than dismiss it out of hand and finally test a year later, then deal with chronic Lyme issues.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. From what I’ve read the symptoms seem to match with what I am dealing with with Remington and that it is a relatively easy thing to test for. I also watched a few horses exhibiting these symptoms in videos and they really do look a lot like Remington. I will be bringing this up to my vet and get him on board with the test as even if it is not Lyme I’d rather be safe than sorry.

If anyone is interested in comparison, here is a video from the summer of 2015 where Remi was much more willing and with a marked decrease in stiffness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti_e1-koNrg&feature=youtu.be

Sorry about the vertical filming but this was the only decent video I could find.

If anyone is interested in comparison, here is a video from the summer of 2015 where Remi was much more willing and with a marked decrease in stiffness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti_e1-koNrg&feature=youtu.be

Sorry about the vertical filming but this was the only decent video I could find.