Sudden onset of resistance in 4yo - Update #73, rib fractures

[EventingMaff]

As I was readign through, my head flashed to PSSM2, which is not about NSCs and grass shouldn’t affect. It’s more about protein and amino acid supply plus muscle oxidization support (magnesium, vit E).

That being said, when I re-read what you wrote you mentioned the first day you lunged him then went to the indoor. I presume you lunged outside? How was he then? Did issue only arise in indoor?

Given his deep cut happened in indoor, could this be a trauma / anxiety response? How is horse outside and hacking (which sounds like was what he did most at trainers). Once I nailed down if this was an ‘everywhere’ problem or an ‘indoor’ problem, I’d go back to looking at potential causes.

PSSM2 is still a possibility. My mare started showing symptoms when ringwork picked up and balance started being asked of her within figures (first year was hacking and baby-basics with no symptoms). One of her ‘symptoms’ was that she pawed excessively when halted on contact – however she did not refuse to move forward from a halt, but when halted the muscle discomfort was such that she pawed while when in movement she “got through it” with tension and bracing.

[Critter]

Well, the running in the pasture was because of the greenhead flies that were after him…but he was able to physically gallop across the field. He also has done the stop and paw a few times when leading without any tack, but that has only been in the past 3 days, and only about 2-3 times total and it quickly stopped each time without any real correction.

We’ve been riding in the indoor because the outdoor footing was hard as a rock from us being so dry for the past 6 weeks and I don’t have trail access unless you trailer out…so I would think any trauma connection to the indoor would have appeared before 6 weeks. He also did ride indoors at the trainers (especially through most of the winter months)…but she primarily took him out on the trails whenever the weather allowed (which was often).

When I lunged him outside, he didn’t stop and paw, but he was a bit silly/goofy on the lunge…I chalked it up to being outside in a new arena…but maybe that was the start of whatever is going on (since he normally is not silly on the lunge). He did have a trip on the lunge, but it wasn’t like he face planted and I figured just baby horse not paying attention.

For feed, he gets a mix of TC Senior and TC 30% ration balancer. His vitamin E (done last year) was low normal (checked everyone after I went through EDM with my other gelding). Going to do some groundwork with and without tack this week to try and narrow down when the behavior shows up while we wait for the vet appointment.

[candyappy]

Don’t get offended at my question but how experienced are you at riding/ training / bringing along young horses?

I ask because all this started after he came back from the trainers barn.

It can happen so gradually that they get the upper hand and then decide that they have things they prefer not to do.

[Critter]

I’ve only ever brought up youngsters…the oldest I’ve ever started with was a 5yo. Actually had my own training business before I decided I was getting burnt out and I opted to go back to school and get a degree/job that would pay for my own horses. A few youngsters I’ve brought up to competing very successfully from green 3yos to showing PSG/I1 with 70%+ scores…and schooling GP (injuries or horses just not quite having the scope to really do GP meant I’ve never yet competed at that level). And I do all my training with taking lessons (so no one else riding my horses, except for the starting under saddle). I don’t like the basic starting under saddle stuff (just not my strength, so I’ve learned to turn that part over to someone else who is more skilled and efficient at it)…I am fairly experienced with taking green but well started 3 or 4 yos up to FEI level work.

So I can say this is not just a riding issue going on. Today I lunged with just a bridle on…he was not as bad, but he had several episodes of stopping/pawing on the lunge and hand walking. Very braced/high headed (he usually rounds on his own even without side reins…today he was high headed/braced). Trouble keeping the left lead canter.

Then, when I was taking him from the barn back to turnout (so just halter, no tack, after cleaning him up from lunging)…he started stopping and pawing and stretching out as we went to walk to the pasture. And it wasn’t that he wanted to itch/pee/eat/etc. He also did that the other day after he worked. He hasn’t done it when coming in from turnout or when going out after just being in the stall…only after a work session.

[EventingMaff]

Based on your updates, this rings of PSSM2. May be worth adding in protein /amino acids and magnesium and see if you see any difference after a couple weeks. If yes - pretty strong clue on what’s going on. If no - low cost option before moving on to more extensive and expensive diagnostics

[candyappy]

@Critter

So I can say this is not just a riding issue going on. Today I lunged with just a bridle on…he was not as bad, but he had several episodes of stopping/pawing on the lunge and hand walking. Very braced/high headed (he usually rounds on his own even without side reins…today he was high headed/braced). Trouble keeping the left lead canter.

Then, when I was taking him from the barn back to turnout (so just halter, no tack, after cleaning him up from lunging)…he started stopping and pawing and stretching out as we went to walk to the pasture. And it wasn’t that he wanted to itch/pee/eat/etc. He also did that the other day after he worked. He hasn’t done it when coming in from turnout or when going out after just being in the stall…only after a work session.

Then I agree he has something else going on. Sounds like time for a vet call and maybe some tests? ( if you haven’t already).

[Critter]

Headed to NBC (Penn) on Monday…sports med specialist is squeezing him in between her other appointments so we will drop him off and she will work on him Mon/Tues. Already planning for radiographs of neck/back unless they see something completely different. She already has the videos and history. I’ve used her over the past 15 years and she’s super and knows me/my horses. They will also have neuro do a quick screen while there to see if they see anything of concern that needs a more involved work up. I told her if we needed to bring him back for other testing that they can’t fit in next week we will. Fingers crossed that 1, we find an answer and 2, that we can treat/manage it.

[candyappy]

Good luck and I hope they find something very minor !!

[candyappy]

I had a thought this morning @Critter when working my youngster. It may have been asked in another post above and I missed it.

Is he peeing alright? The stopping and pawing could be related to urinary area issues? Just something to consider if not mentioned.

[Critter]

Seems to be peeing okay…though I’ve not directly seen him urinate. He has been able to fully drop (and all looks normal) and the pee spot in the stall is the usual amount/location. Water intake seems to be the same. But certainly something to keep on the list to consider…and I will see if I can actually catch him peeing at some point.

My farm vet got back to me, even though we have the university appt on Monday…she is really concerned (and she’s a very smart vet) about something being pinched in his neck based on the video I sent her. Has me giving him some banamine until we get up to the university vet just to make sure he’s not too uncomfortable while we wait. The behavior is now randomly happening with bringing him in/out from turnout. Sometimes he is completely fine and walks out normal…other times there is stopping and pawing. The intensity of if varies, as does where it happens (the one day it was inside the barn aisle, today it was all the way out at the field). I’ve not done any more workouts with him because it doesn’t seem fair to aggravate something that is clearly not a training issue.

It’s just really hard not to start thinking worst case scenarios…especially after losing a 5 yo to EDM a little over a year ago.

[candyappy]

It would be easy to hurt his neck in any number of random ways when nobody is watching. I hope not.

I know you will keep us posted.

[lenapesadie]

Jingles for horse and OP

[Pezanos]

You must be sick with worry. Jingling for an outcome that’s easy to fix.

[IPEsq]

Really hoping for you it’s not neuro!

[SuzieQNutter]

Can gallop in paddock but not want to go when you are on.

Sounds like my boy. He pulled a muscle deep in his chest, it hurt to lift his legs, so he would go on grass but not in the arena. It hurt to go downhill. We would end up going in the opposite direction. I wasxat my wit’s end,

He needed time off for the muscle to repair. Otherwise work was making it worse. Other than that he was totally sound. The chiropractor diagnosed it immediately.

[Critter]

So, update for those following…though no answers yet. Got a call this morning from the sports med vet. She and neuro (Dr. Johnson, who is one of the top neuro docs in the US) took a look at him yesterday.

From an ortho standpoint, he looks pretty good. Maybe a touch off on the LF, not enough to even block. We could chase that down, but they don’t think that is causing anything significant.

Doesn’t palpate sore on the back at all. There are some neuro things…drags toes, hypermetric, but it’s not consistent through all the tests. So, some tests he has issues with for some reasons, and other tests, other findings. Overall, she graded him as 1.5 on both front and hind for neuro. Ugh.

They also noticed the stopping/pawing and intermittently parking out. They said that he immediately peed in the stall when he got there, which is odd for a gelding. So they are keeping kidney as a question mark right now.

Today, getting the xrays done of the back and neck. CBC/Chem to check kidney function. Will redo vitamin E and Lyme, because, why not. So we wait for those results…meanwhile, I am not crazy as there is something going on…but we are not any closer to figuring out what. Neuro vet wanted to know if he had been turned out on the same field as my EDM gelding (next to the blueberry farm)…which he has not been (no young horses go on that field after the one, just in case).

[Critter]

UPDATE:
Back xrays totally negative. Neck xrays showed enlargement and irregularity at C6/7, but not a “smoking gun” so to say. Didn’t look like narrowing on measurements.Chem and urinalysis was all normal.

So, I talked with the vet about injecting that and then doing some pain management and time off…with the thought that if he doesn’t improve we will have to go the myelogram route. They don’t have a myelogram appointment available until end of July. They thought that would be a good plan.

Then I asked the vets…since he’s there and this would be an easy rule in/rule out, can you scope him for ulcers? So, they did that this morning and…@IPEsq nailed it…the scope today revealed Grade 3 ulcers!! Never thought I would be so happy to hear a diagnosis of ulcers as today. And he had been on the 1/2 tube for the past 25 days. Clearly not enough to heal what is going on. The vet also said they’ve clinically been seeing worse ulcers in horses who recently had Exceed antibiotic…he had two doses in March for the chest wound and 1 dose (and a dose of IV oxytet) in May with the strange fever thing. Other than the meds and bute he got recently for the cut then the fever, he is a low risk ulcer horse…turn out on grass all night and part of the day (bug/heat pending), small meals, buddy next to him in the barn and outside, free choice hay when in the stall. So hopefully this is all a function of the bute/meds he had to be on.

They did also treat the neck, because he is still a little ataxic and when they ultrasounded he did have some irregularity in C5/6 that wasn’t seen on the xrays, in addition to the changes on C6/7. They felt there was enough of a question mark there that it was worth doing the injection. But he won’t be able to go on NSAIDs because of the ulcers. So we will do 2 weeks gabapentin just to calm down any neuro irritation that may be going on.

But…the ulcers so explain so many symptoms…and I am so glad I insisted on the scope as we never would have thought he would have them so bad, especially with being on the ulcergard. I was feeling pretty devastated about the possible neck/neuro stuff…but I am feeling a lot more hopeful now that we can try to get the ulcers under control!

They are suggesting 2 weeks sucralafate followed by the full month of a full tube of ulcergard, and then rescope to see where we are. And still the next month off to let the ulcers and neck both calm down. Then if he is okay when we start back up we can cancel the myelogram. If he is not better, then we still have that appointment to fall back on.

[IPEsq]

The last time I nailed a diagnosis it was my horse’s broken scapula. My vet turned to me and said,”Don’t you hate it when you are right?” Lol. Glad this time it was relatively good news (hopefully easily treatable).

[candyappy]

I am sorry he has ulcers but happy you know at least!

[Jealoushe]

Ulcers strike again! Glad you got it figured out, sounds like he will be back to himself in no time.