[QUOTE=Charlie Piccione;6177346]
Why not just balance the iodine with some iodized salt and give the cabbage a try? All minerals and elements in the horses diets are either inhibitors or excellerators of each other, so maybe the studies are just not complete as written yet.
I personally would stay with Natural as possible.[/QUOTE]
Arsenic is natural. Cabbage is not a “natural food” for horses either.
Horses are herbivores. That means they’re designed to eat forages/fibers - plant material. Cabbage is a plant. Arsenic is a natural element found in rocks, water, air, soil and in plants. It is not, of itself, a forage. Food-wise it is mostly found in seafood, rice, rice cereal, mushrooms, and poultry - none of which, aside from rice and some mushrooms, is something that horses would eat naturally. So, comparing arsenic with cabbage is not comparable really.
[QUOTE=caballus;6177670]
Horses are herbivores. That means they’re designed to eat forages/fibers - plant material. Cabbage is a plant. Arsenic is a natural element found in rocks, water, air, soil and in plants. It is not, of itself, a forage. Food-wise it is mostly found in seafood, rice, rice cereal, mushrooms, and poultry - none of which, aside from rice and some mushrooms, is something that horses would eat naturally. So, comparing arsenic with cabbage is not comparable really.[/QUOTE]
OK, two can play this game if you want. Red maple leaves, yew, azalea, mountain laurel, rhododendron, water hemlock, wild cherry, oleander…all extremely poisonous…all plants. All edible.
Yes, they are all plants. Horses do learn what plants to eat in the wild and what not to eat as they learn from each other in the herd environment. Of course, domestically, horses aren’t always kept in that environment so they WILL taste different plant matters when available and especially if they don’t have enough other forage to graze. That’s just the way it is.
Very little research about food, other than processed artificial food, is done with equine. But a bit of observation and logical thinking will bring one to realize that in the last 3 generations, since we’ve gotten away from feeding simply garden foods, whole oats, barley and corn, horses aren’t ‘working’ as they used to ‘back in the day’, etc. that the rise in equine diseases has become alarming as has the rise in human diseases. That is why I started this venture on food over a decade ago. And again, watching the horses and their responses to ‘live, fresh foods’, mentally, emotionally, physically – that is what has cemented this in my thinking and in my horsecare. That as well as our own physical responses to eating more fresh foods ourselves (Hubby and I) and using more ‘natural’ medicines, so to speak (herbs, homeopathy etc.) to cure ourselves. (Well, I grew up with a Mom who used herbs, vits, etc. to stay healthy and mentally alert until the age of 88 when she passed on. Used to think she was a fruitcake! Hahahaha, But now wished I listened a whole lot more closely than I did.)
My ‘mission’, as it were, is to help horseowners keep their horses as healthy as possible, as safely as possible and at a cost that is economical and reasonable. It not only benefits the horses but the owners, as well.
I don’t see this as a game – I’m not out to ‘prove’ to you or anyone else. Just here to offer information that might help another fellow horse lover. The info is for the taking … or, not.
My point is Gwen, you have no verifiable research to back up your theories, particularly your advice on IR and grass.
My point is, there is little to no formal research done of ANY live forage and equine. So – what’s your point? I see the research done on pharmaceuticals for IR and I see that the horses are only being ‘managed’ as to numbers. I see horses taken onto dry lots for the rest of their lives, fed nothing but very expensive processed food, alot of pharmaceutical supplements, spending a whole lot of $$ and the horses don’t get much better. They are ‘managed’. I have seen dozens of IR (and Cushings, also) horses go off all processed, all supplements, all pharmas and get better! To the point of being totally healthy - all normal numbers and staying that way. With veterinary observations. No - no formal controlled trial studies on those, Laura – but evidentiary results growing daily. Again, take it or leave it. There is lots of information out there about fresh and raw foods for treating Diabetes Type 2 in Humans. The equine digestive system works much the same way as humans’. Its been shown over and over and over again the reason for Diabetes Type 2 is no longer ONLY due to increasing age but to the DIET being consumed. One can reason, given the similarities of the equine digestive system to the human, that the same would apply to horses. The benefits of raw and fresh foods for Diabetes Type 1 (insulin dependent) is also being touted. It’s up to the individual to find out more if he or she is interested. If not? Well, then there’s no reason to discuss, is there?
Gwen, there’s plenty of research out there on diet and IR in equines. Not all of it advocates processed food and medication.
So, where’s the research on raw food and type 1 diabetes? Other than some health food websites, I’ve never seen anything.
I have to admit, I’m yanking your chain a bit, but quite frankly, sometimes you’re just way over the top. I’ve used herbal remedies and homepathic remedies quite successfully and I think there’s a place for western, eastern, chiropractic, naturopathic and homeopathic medicine, but never one to the exclusion of the others. Moderation and appropriateness is the key.
You can yank my chain all you’d like, Laura … ya ain’t putting me out, tho. grin …
Have you ever read through the American Diabetes Association to see what their recommended food list is for Diabetics? The ten “Diabetes Superfoods” as listed on their website are: Beans, Dark Green Leafy vegetables, Citrus Fruit, Sweet Potatoes (yams), Berries, Fish, Whole Grains, Nuts, (Low Fat) Milk & Yogurt. Now, I happen to feed yogurt to my guys now and then but not as part of their regular diet. And obviously we don’t feed fish to horses as they are herbivores. But the rest? It’s all part of the veggie diet for them (base) and just as recommended for Diabetes foods as ‘super foods’. As for formal studies? Perhaps I’m not all that ‘over the top’ ??? And I’ve never excluded one over the other in terms of Western, Eastern, Naturapathic, Chiropractic, etc. treatments. But seems to me there are many who do exclude ‘alternative’ and ‘complementary’ treatments, forsaking all except western allopathy and like to point fingers at those who incorporate CAM into their horse husbandry. ??? There is a time and place for each.
Here are just the conclusions from a few PubMed and other pubs: (out of thousands to be found) –
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20724400 : CONCLUSION:
Increasing daily intake of green leafy vegetables could significantly reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes and should be investigated further.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ :
CONCLUSIONS:
Fruit and vegetable intake may be inversely associated with diabetes incidence particularly among women. Education may explain partly this association.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18390796 :
CONCLUSIONS:
Consumption of green leafy vegetables and fruit was associated with a lower hazard of diabetes, …
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18663161 :
CONCLUSIONS:
Higher plasma vitamin C level and, to a lesser degree, fruit and vegetable intake were associated with a substantially decreased risk of diabetes. Our findings highlight a potentially important public health message on the benefits of a diet rich in fruit and vegetables for the prevention of diabetes.
http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/3/517S.long : CONCLUSIONS
Increasing the consumption of fruit and vegetables, whole grains, and soy is a practical strategy for consumers to optimize their health and to reduce the risk of chronic diseases. … We believe that the evidence suggests that antioxidants are best acquired through whole-food consumption, not as a pill or an extract.
Gwen, there’s plenty of research out there on diet and IR in equines. Not all of it advocates processed food and medication.
… Resources, please? And thanks, Laura – you’ve been a good catalyst for further studies on my behalf today and I’ve located ‘stuff’ that I’ve not found before. It only reinforces my strong feeling that fresh, live, raw forages are essential for health – not only for equine but for humans, too.
Gwen, I’m glad you’re taking my critique in the right spirit <grin too>. I do caution you to be careful about claims about type 1 diabetes however. There is no research other than anecdotal health food related websites that I have found to make that claim.
Is a good diet helpful for all conditions? Absolutely. Can it cure type 1 diabetes (and I know you didn’t say that, but I’ve seen it on health type websites), no.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;6178319]
Gwen, I’m glad you’re taking my critique in the right spirit <grin too>. I do caution you to be careful about claims about type 1 diabetes however. There is no research other than anecdotal health food related websites that I have found to make that claim.
Is a good diet helpful for all conditions? Absolutely.[/QUOTE] Yes, along with adequate exercise (movement)!! I think, with the links that I provided, it showed some pretty firm studies? At any rate – I love discussing “stuff” with people who are open to discussion without personal attacks. As I said, it spurs me into further studying and research. So, again, thanks, Laura! 
Oh please! My horses are as far removed from the original equine with 3 toes as they can be. If mine had to forage for food, they’d keel over and die.
However, I think moderation in all things is good… I feed Seminole but I also feed chia seeds for omega 3s and omegahorse shine and oranges and apples and bananas and beer and whonu cookies and Co-cola (oops that might not be natural.)
They don’t get cabbage or broccoli or cauliflower, because of what happened when I taught my 3 dogs to eat those veggies raw.
Would our lives all be better if we all went on the raw diet and/or the juice diet? Probably. But then a big 18 wheeler could still wipe us out in a wreck. So moderation. Enjoy some things that are good for you and some that are not so good but can be offset by raw baby spinach and all.
OP, buy a bottle of Quitt. I don’t know why it works, but it stops wood chewing in about 3 days of use. You thread really got highjacked!
My horses chew on bark every spring, just in the spring.
They are doing it right now, LOL.
After a couple or few weeks, they are done.
Gwen, just recently it has been suggeted to add a couple of drops of iodine into the water bucket, maybe three or four days a week.
I am getting reports that people are seeing an improvement in their horses’ coat, increased water intake, better appetite and more.
Do you have an opinion on this?
[QUOTE=luvmytbs;6178367]
My horses chew on bark every spring, just in the spring.
They are doing it right now, LOL.
After a couple or few weeks, they are done.
Gwen, just recently it has been suggeted to add a couple of drops of iodine into the water bucket, maybe three or four days a week.
I am getting reports that people are seeing an improvement in their horses’ coat, increased water intake, better appetite and more.
Do you have an opinion on this?[/QUOTE] Haven’t really thought on it particularly out of the context of it being a needed substance for health. There are vegetable, fruits, herbs and nuts that offer small amounts of iodine naturally - pineapple, coconut, strawberries, rhubarb, mango, dates, apricots ,Jerusalem artichoke, spinach,oats, buckwheat, lentils, cinnamon, fennel, hyssop and hazlenuts, specifically.
Kelp as well as other seaweeds also offer it. I would be more inclined, myself, to offer it through food rather than manufactured/processed product. But since iodine affects the Thyroid so strongly I’d probably not offer extra in that manner at all without a whole lot more studying on it and without some solid numbers from the vet. (Although I do add Kelp once a week or so to the feed and both Hubby and I take it mixed with our salt for seasoning.) I was told years and years ago, for a horse with anhydrosis, to give a tbsp of NON-iodized salt to his feed daily. I asked the vet then why not iodized salt? His answer was because the thyroid is affected very easily and we didn’t want to ‘upset the applecart in that manner’. So, took him for his word and use plain Celtic or Himalayan salt now. Adding a couple of drops to the water in the manner you’ve described would make me a bit uncomfortable …
I do believe certain saltblocks have iodine in it, so I will stick with that.
Unfortunately my guys are very sceptic about unknown foods, so I can’t see them trying any of the fruits you mentioned.
Last year though they did enjoy a few string beans taken straight from the vine.
I do believe certain saltblocks have iodine in it, so I will stick with that.
Unfortunately my guys are very sceptic about unknown foods, so I can’t see them trying any of the fruits you mentioned.
Last year though they did enjoy a few string beans taken straight from the vine.
OP, you can try Quit (didn’t work for me). Alfalfa did for one, Gastrogard for the other. No one chews now except to be obnoxious when they want attention. Always right across from the window where they can see me if I’m late with dinner.
Gwen, I’ll be sure to read the studies you referenced later tonight.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;6178847]
Gwen, I’ll be sure to read the studies you referenced later tonight.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LauraKY;6177620]
Arsenic is natural. Cabbage is not a “natural food” for horses either.[/QUOTE]
Do you feed Arsenic to your horses?
I do at the rate of .2ppm (in a 1oz spoon) daily. :yes:
[QUOTE=Charlie Piccione;6178916]
Do you feed Arsenic to your horses?
I do at the rate of .2ppm (in a 1oz spoon) daily. :yes:[/QUOTE] I only feed Arsenic when someone is colicky … Arsenicum 200c. grin
[QUOTE=caballus;6178919]
I only feed Arsenic when someone is colicky … Arsenicum 200c. grin[/QUOTE]
So did old time race trainers. <grin> But, seriously, IIRC it was arsenic that killed Phar Lap. Yes, not the Arsenicum homeopathic version, but arsenic?
Sorry, OP, we’ve hijacked your thread again.
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