Suddenly wood chewing

[chai]

My gelding has been on wood fencing for years and never chewed it. He has moved to an in/out situation and has started chewing on the wood posts. I’ve treated the posts with anti-chew stuff, but am concerned about this change in his behavior. He has a buddy and it’s a great situation with plenty of turnout. He was there a month before he started doing it so I’m wondering if something is missing in his diet. The grass hasn’t come in yet, but he is grained 2x a day and has hay throughout the day. But we are in an area that’s traditionally low in selenium and vitamin e…could this be the culprit?

Has anyone run into this and found it to be something missing in the diet? I’m going to check with my vet but thanks in advance if anyone has run into this and found a solution.

[mhtokay]

There is a feed supplement that addresses wood chewing, so I imagine with some horses, it is a diet issue. Put out some free choice minerals? Is the hay a lot different? Was his old place warmer so he had grass all year?
Here’s an ad for it.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=15976

[fjordmom]

Wish I could give you an answer. I notice mine will chew the wood fence posts (rest of fence is electric braided rope) in mid to late winter. It’s only sporadic. Nothing else in their lives has changed except lack of green grass. They do get free choice hay & heated water. All day turnout, exercise, and other feed stays the same as much as the temps permit. We cut our own hay, so it’s not much of a change, other than what vitamin loss does come from drying, than the grass they are used to.

I’ve always felt it was either boredom or some mineral imbalance. Mine are supplemented selenium & E over and above what is in their pelleted feed. I also run blood tests to check their levels. They always come back well within desired range.

Many of my local horse friends experience the same “winter chewing” and none of us has found any solution. (Quitt helped a bit for some, but not all & not all horses on the same farm, so go figure.) Once spring returns, the chewing fades away.

Maybe our horses are just as sick of winter as we are here in the great north! It’s going to be a fun week. This winter all at once blizzard left us with snow so deep it’s chest high on my 16.3 big boy. After 10 hours with the tractor & bucket yesterday, the barn yard is cleared out. It was so wet & heavy you couldn’t even blow it! I don’t know how I can turn anybody out, it’s so deep & piled everywhere. What a mess it’s going to be when the temps go back to the predicted 40s next week.

[caballus]

You might think in terms of ulcers. A horse only produces saliva when chewing and that saliva neutralizes gut acid. While boredom is also a cause of a vice, the need to produce saliva can also be a reason. Try adding just a small handful of shredded cabbage daily to his feed. You might find that the newly acquired behavior stops. Cabbage has properties in it to soothe and heal the gut.

[LauraKY]

Or, instead of feeding cabbage, you could investigate the possibility of ulcers. Any other symptoms? What grain are you feeding and how much?

[Dutch_Lovin_Dressage]

I second the ulcers idea.

[QUOTE=caballus;6176032]
Try adding just a small handful of shredded cabbage daily to his feed. You might find that the newly acquired behavior stops. Cabbage has properties in it to soothe and heal the gut.[/QUOTE]

Someone (maybe it was you?) mentioned cabbage in another recent thread. Can you tell us more? What properties does it have?

Interestingly, kim-chee (Korean fermented cabbage and vegetables) is supposed to be good for digestion, as is the white shredded garnish I get at the sushi place (maybe diakon raddish?). My Korean friends eat kim-chee every day!

.

[Dutch_Lovin_Dressage]

@chai;6175980

But we are in an area that’s traditionally low in selenium and vitamin e…could this be the culprit?

No I don’t think so. Selenium deficiency makes horses body sore, tie up, spasm. We’ve had two horses that ended up being selenium deficient and neither chewed wood. Both were on vit min supps but just not enough for them and the work they were doing apparently. First one came from selenium deficient europe, tied up post op. Second one born here. First signs were cold backed, then itchy body (rubbing on walls. I think muscle problems must have felt weird, hurt, tingled?). Final discovery came after masseuse found his rear end to be crazy tight and sore in the hamstrings and gluteals. At that very moment, I suddenly had an inkling as to what was up. He is totally fine now and 100%.

[caballus]

@Dutch Lovin' Dressage Rider;6176174

Someone (maybe it was you?) mentioned cabbage in another recent thread. Can you tell us more? What properties does it have?

Probably was me. grin … Cabbage has “Vitamin U” … otherwise known as S-Methylmethionine.(http://tinyurl.com/7mtmelf)

Interestingly, kim-chee (Korean fermented cabbage and vegetables) is supposed to be good for digestion, as is the white shredded garnish I get at the sushi place (maybe diakon raddish?). My Korean friends eat kim-chee every day!

Fermented foods are highly beneficial for us as they help our digestive system. The Price Foundation has lots of info on that.

[Charlie_Piccione]

[QUOTE=caballus;6176032]
You might think in terms of ulcers. A horse only produces saliva when chewing and that saliva neutralizes gut acid. While boredom is also a cause of a vice, the need to produce saliva can also be a reason. Try adding just a small handful of shredded cabbage daily to his feed. You might find that the newly acquired behavior stops. Cabbage has properties in it to soothe and heal the gut.[/QUOTE]

Add a little Chia Seed and it shoud produce wonders for the horse.

[caballus]

[QUOTE=Charlie Piccione;6176614]
Add a little Chia Seed and it shoud produce wonders for the horse. ;)[/QUOTE] I always add chia or flax to the salads the guys get so thanks for that tip to add with the cabbage.

[LauraKY]

Alfalfa hay is a proven ulcer preventative. Unlike cabbage for horses.

According to Rutgers, cabbage is OK in very small amounts (2 to 4 oz per day). I would think considering the weight of a horse, that is such a small amount that any effect (if there indeed is a positive effect) would be negligible.

http://www.esc.rutgers.edu/publications/PDF_Files/fs062.pdf

And according to Dr. Getty of Getty Equine Nutrition, an equine nutritionist, horses should not be fed cabbage or kale:

http://pub35.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=2983398634&frmid=22&msgid=804836&cmd=show

[caballus]

Well, most of the nutrition “experts” also advocate taking horses off grass and all other ‘natural’ feeds to put them on nothing but specially formulated processed food with soaked hay. And meanwhile, the “diseases” that the horses suffer with are, at best, ‘managed’ (sometimes), but never cured. I’ve seen enough over the years to know that horses DO get better when taken off processed feeds and allowed to eat what horses naturally eat - forages. Live forages. They’ve lived and survived and thrived for thousands of years on grass. Why NOW? Why, in the past decade or two, is it imperative that domestic horses be taken off grass, their natural food, which is full of natural nutrients,and fed all these high-priced feeds and supplements etc … in order to merely ‘manage’ them? And how many of these nutrition experts have, all of a sudden, come up with their own formulas which they sell for a real pretty penny? And why has the particular disease, formerly an ‘old age disease’ become so prevalent in younger and younger horses? Same with Cushings, Allergies, Arthritis, etc. etc. … The sickest horses I’ve seen were a 3 and a 4 year old with such severe IR IN SPITE OF being on the ‘recommended by nutritional expert’ feeds, supplements, etc… - they ended up having to be euthanized. 3 and 4 years old. Read up on Dr. Pottenger’s studies and what he discovered over the course of 3 generations and 10 years. Look at photos of the autopsies between the 1st generation and the 3rd generation. The differences are stark! We’re living in the 3rd, going on the 4th generation now – animals and humans, since processed foods have become our primary diets. It’s honestly pretty frightening, IMHO.

What can be more natural and healthy for HORSES than live, fresh grazing forages? Heck, seems to me that the ferals are doing very well feeding themselves … no incidences of IR, ulcers and little, if any, incidences of laminitis, early set on arthritis, copd, etc. … they do live to their 20’s or more, reproduce up until that time (unless steralized by the BLM), etc.

I’ve seen enough recoveries now to have NO DOUBTS about feeding horses fresh foods to CURE IR (which, technically, is Diabetes Type 2) prevent IR, prevent ulcers and many other dis-eases which, in MHO, are man-made.

So, argue with me if you’d like … but there’s no arguing with evidence presented by horses, themselves.

And yes, alfalfa is good for ulcers; and cabbage is also shown to be highly effective in scientific/medical studies. Do your research.

[LauraKY]

Caballus, not this expert. She recommends free choice forage. You might want to read some of her articles.

BTW, I’m not really arguing with you…just the whole salad and cabbage part. Are there research studies done on equines and cabbage? If you know of these studies, why don’t you post some links?

[caballus]

I have posted links up the yingyang in various discussions. A simple search on “cabbage” and “ulcers” will bring you to them. A search on Google Scholar for “cabbage ulcers” will bring up over 7000 articles. A search on PubMed will bring up studies. Search “Vitamin U” and “S-Methylmethionine” with regards to ulcers. I also have read much of Dr. Getty’s recommendations for feeding and actually thought that she and I would agree but she still advocates for specialized processed feeds and taking IR horses off grass. I don’t agree. I’ve seen the results of both ways of managing IR. I believe what I see in the results of the horses and that is, and has been, letting them be horses – eating grass, eating fresh foods, and no processed food. So we part ways on those issues. Other than that, yes, she does advocate for fresh forages and more kudos to her for that.

I also have seen remarkable results from cabbage. It’s not a whole lot – a mere small handful of shredded cabbage a day. Not even 2 or 4 oz. Just a handful and while yeah, I was skeptical at first thinking what the heck??? How can such a small amount reap such benefit for such a large animal??? But, seen it work over and over again so that I am firm on it and won’t argue with the horses, themselves. It’s fruitless (no pun intended!) (oooooooo, sorry, that was bad! grin)

[LauraKY]

Well, then why not post them again? I do if I need to make a point. And were they studies in equines or humans?

The only study I’ve found which is equine specific is from KER, page 211,http://www.ker.com/library/advances/124.pdf which says that kale, cabbage, etc can affect iodine uptake and thyroid function.

So, show me the articles. I’m prepared to be convinced.

[Charlie_Piccione]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;6177091]
Well, then why not post them again? I do if I need to make a point. And were they studies in equines or humans?

The only study I’ve found which is equine specific is from KER, page 211,http://www.ker.com/library/advances/124.pdf which says that kale, cabbage, etc can affect iodine uptake and thyroid function.

So, show me the articles. I’m prepared to be convinced.[/QUOTE]

Why not just balance the iodine with some iodized salt and give the cabbage a try? All minerals and elements in the horses diets are either inhibitors or excellerators of each other, so maybe the studies are just not complete as written yet.
I personally would stay with Natural as possible.

[Lieslot]

Isn’t woodchewing towards end of winter a sign of low in copper?
I thought that’s what’s added in many woodchewing supplements.
I don’t seem to have the problem this year, in the past I would add some copper and a couple week later they’d lose interest. Just a thought.

[chai]

Thank you, everyone, for such great suggestions. I’ll let you know what works for my guy.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=caballus;6176032]
You might think in terms of ulcers. A horse only produces saliva when chewing and that saliva neutralizes gut acid. While boredom is also a cause of a vice, the need to produce saliva can also be a reason. Try adding just a small handful of shredded cabbage daily to his feed. You might find that the newly acquired behavior stops. Cabbage has properties in it to soothe and heal the gut.[/QUOTE]

^^^This. My mare was eating wood like it was going out of style (which eventually caused her to colic). Fast forward to this year when we diagnosed her with ulcers. Since we’ve treated and healed those ulcers, she hasn’t chewed any wood (except for when I first took her off her omeprazole treatment, and her tummy started bothering again. Put her back on preventative dose of omeprazole, no more eating wood). They will do waht they have to do, to get something in those tummies and get relief.

[buck22]

My morgan is very sensitive to sugars in his diet. I do have a bad habit of being too free with the treats when he is in training and being such a good boy. When I feed too many treats, he starts chewing wood.

I also had him in a boarding situation once where the 24/7 available hay was too rich for him and the BO was feeding him behind my back. He suddenly started chewing the fences and trees relentlessly. I moved him and put him on “diet” hay and the chewing stopped immediately. He simply needed more roughage and less overly nutritious fodder.