Sugar v. Starch: what's the bigger enemy?

[blob99]

The barn I board my horses at has only two options of grain–Nutrena Proforce Fuel and Nutrena SafeChoice Original, neither of which I particularly love–both are fairly high NSC.

Both have a fairly similar NSC. The Fuel is 20 and the SafeChoice is 22. But the Fuel has higher sugar, lower starch and the Safechoice is the opposite. Curious to hear from those who know more about nutrition than I do if there is a major difference between what is less desirable sugar or starch. Or if the difference is not very extreme.

I currently have my horses on the Fuel because of the higher fat content and the overall lower NSC (though it’s barely a difference). Though if the higher sugar is really the worse way to go, I can switch and supplement to get the added fat.

Obviously the ideal situation would be to go a different grain altogether. But that’s not a realistic option for us.

[JB]

A normal healthy horse likely can’t tell the differences in those levels of sugar and starch - 7 vs 5, and 13 vs 17, respectively.

There’s some research which indicates that a meal of .4%BW starch is an upper limit to avoid fermentation in the hind gut. That’s 4lb in a meal. 17% starch of a 5lb meal isn’t even 1lb.

Metabolic horses are a whole different animal, they could be sensitive to half that amount, though it does seem to depend on the source, meaning, starch from corn is less well tolerated than starch from oats.

So it’s really 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

[blob99]

Thanks, JB, that’s helpful. And yes, there are really small differences, but figured it was worth asking if those were going to be noticeable or not.

Neither of mine have metabolic issues, though in a perfect world I’d have them on a lower NSC food. One is a welsh pony and the other is a mustang so while neither is currently metabolic and both are in good weight (the pony is still a bit skinny), both are breeds that are more prone to metabolic issues than some others.

[JB]

Hmmm, is there ANY way you can use another food? I agree that with those breeds, I would not be playing with 20%+ NSC feeds. Nutrena Empower Balance with alfalfa pellets?

How much would you be feeding?

[blob99]

Unfortunately at this barn, the only way to do a different feed than one of those two is if I fed it myself. And with work, it’s not possible for me to make it to the barn 2x a day to do breakfast and dinner.

If i could feed my own, I’d have them on TC senior or something similar.

I can bag my own supplements so I could reduce the amount of grain overall and bag alfalfa pellets + a fat source to be given. But it would be only given once a day when they do supplements.

The pony is on 1lb 2x a day of the Fuel and he also gets a fat source supplement.

The mustang is in pretty heavy work and gets 2lbs 2x a day. I tried her on less grain and her condition dropped below where I want it.

Both get alfalfa in addition to grass hay. The grass hay is more or less free choice.

[Palm_Beach]

@blob99

Unfortunately at this barn, the only way to do a different feed than one of those two is if I fed it myself. And with work, it’s not possible for me to make it to the barn 2x a day to do breakfast and dinner.

If i could feed my own, I’d have them on TC senior or something similar.

I can bag my own supplements so I could reduce the amount of grain overall and bag alfalfa pellets + a fat source to be given. But it would be only given once a day when they do supplements.

The pony is on 1lb 2x a day of the Fuel and he also gets a fat source supplement.

The mustang is in pretty heavy work and gets 2lbs 2x a day. I tried her on less grain and her condition dropped below where I want it.

Both get alfalfa in addition to grass hay. The grass hay is more or less free choice.

You have to look at the overall diet. Although you are not weighing hay, you would ballpark the horses are eating 15-20 lbs of hay a day. Do you know the NSC of the hay? That would have a bigger impact. So in relation, 2-4 lbs of concentrate split into 2 meals is not that big of a deal. Are you even feeding at the recommended minimum for that feed?

[JB]

@blob99

If i could feed my own, I’d have them on TC senior or something similar.

I can bag my own supplements so I could reduce the amount of grain overall and bag alfalfa pellets + a fat source to be given. But it would be only given once a day when they do supplements.

The pony is on 1lb 2x a day of the Fuel and he also gets a fat source supplement.

The mustang is in pretty heavy work and gets 2lbs 2x a day. I tried her on less grain and her condition dropped below where I want it.

2lb is the low end feeding rate for an 800lb pony in no work, so if that’s her, that’s fine.
4lb for the mustang is too low even if she’s only 800lb.

How big of a “baggie” could you set up? There are some really big baggies

I wouldn’t be concerned about the NSC in either feed for the mustang as long as she’s working pretty hard. The pony could do a ration balancer. Is there a reason you chose a fat supplement, over another 1-2lb of feed?

[blob99]

I went back today to remeasure to make sure I had my numbers right because I was certain I wasn’t feeding at such a low end. Turns out I was in fact wrong.

The pony is getting 1.5lbs 2x a day. I’m giving him a fat supplement instead of additional grain partly to keep him on the lower end of grain while still helping him maintain healthy weight. And as a horse who is ulcer prone (just finished treatment), I was advised to keep him on a good fat source to help. Despite being a pony he is not one of those super easy keepers. And right now we’re playing a bit of catch up. He came to me with bad ulcers, bad teeth, and pretty underweight. So, still figuring out how much he’ll need once he gets caught up and healthy.

The mustang is getting 3lbs 2x a day. But, yes, she is in heavy work. I haven’t had her DNA tested, but she almost certainly has a decent amount of draft in her mutt-lineage.

The grass hay that they have free choice access to tests between 12-15% NSC. I’m not sure about the alfalfa.

LOL, JB. I could probably get away with a quart-sized baggies.

[JB]

Given this update, I’d say you’re probably fine keeping things as-is :yes:

[blob99]

@JB

Given this update, I’d say you’re probably fine keeping things as-is :yes:

thanks, JB. That is reassuring.

I will continue to periodically suggest switching grains to my barn while dreaming of low NSC rates.

[grayarabs]

Starch. Converts to 100 pct glucose acc. to the ECIR group.