Suggestions for gravel size in a small dry lot?

[bdj]

So, I’ve finally had it with the mud situation in my mare’s little dry lot/night pen, and I met with a local excavator who will come in and dig it out, resurface it, and crown it.

The pen is about 24x72 and attaches directly to two stalls. The soil underneath all the mud is sandy loam/loamy sand, so everywhere else on the property drains beautifully - this particular spot is getting heavy use, and has compacted several inches over the last 2 years, hence the mud issues. We’re going to remove all that compacted stuff and put in several inches of stone, but I need to figure out what size would be best. I looked at the samples yesterday and need to make a decision between 3/8" and 1/2" gravel. Aside from the size, they’re identical - washed, angular, etc. Any suggestions as to whether you’d go with the larger or smaller size?

I’m also hoping to add gutters to the barn in the near future - I want this mud mess gone!

Oh, and I’m in the Mid-Atlantic (Eastern Shore of MD to be specific) for what that’s worth.

[Mosey_2003]

I’d go larger, myself. Less tracking around in the hooves. There really isn’t that much difference though, and the smaller chips will settle regardless.
Is he going to put something bigger underneath?

[2miniB]

From what I’ve read, 3/8" smooth, round pea gravel is ideal. Larger could cause bruises.

I can’t get true pea gravel here, so I use 3/8" crushed granite. Its angular, but it still works really well. We have a lot of mud here, except in the dry lot. We scraped some of the topsoil out, put down some stone dust and then put the 3/8" crushed granite on top. Not sure how thick each layer is. There’s no weeds and the dry lot itself works really well.

[BUSY]

not gravel :eek: the horses and ponies who require a dry lot for any variety of reasons or (any horse or pony for that matter) that needs a dry lot * will not be served properly :no: standing on gravel pea size or other gravel … Shod or barefoot …IMHO

[chicamux]

Pea gravel if you can get the natural round stuff. I’m in Southern MD and we have natural gravel made from our native bank run. Pea gravel is small enough to fall between the tines of a manure fork. So you can pick up manure and leave most of the gravel behind. Pea gravel doesn’t hurt horse feet. I have a horse recovering from laminitis and he does fine in deep pea gravel on my driveway. He eats his soaked hay off the ground without problems. However, his turnout dry lot is actually packed bankrun which is clay/sand. pea gravel and rocks up to about 1-2". This packs down but does drain. You actually need a firm base with rock mixed with some soil.It is a firmer footing than deep pea gravel and more stable. You can put your pea gravel and a little sand up on top. I do pick the larger rocks with a manure fork as they come to the surface as they can be bruisers.

[horsepoor]

Whatever you put down, you will want to be able to pick up the manure, so you need something sized so it will fall through the tines of your fork. I might be inclined to go with the 3/8" for that reason. I don’t know how deep you will be making the gravel, but the washed stuff won’t pack like the gravel with fines, so I would not want to go too deep.

I have pea gravel in my runs, over Hoof-Grid. It can be difficult to find the small, round stuff (shaped like, you know, PEAS…amazes me how many times I had to explain this when visiting quarries). And again, since it doesn’t pack, you don’t want to go too deep (with the Hoof-Grid, just 1-2 inches is enough). It works well and my horses have not had any issues with being on gravel, contrary to Busy’s post. My vet and my farrier both comment on how good my horses’ feet look in the winter when others are standing in muck (being in the wet NW). The only issue with gravel I have is the part that I don’t have Hoof-Grid, they will dig…but that will get fixed this year as I’m tired of fixing holes!

[heronponie]

[QUOTE=BUSY;8710413]
not gravel :eek: the horses and ponies who require a dry lot for any variety of reasons or (any horse or pony for that matter) that needs a dry lot * will not be served properly :no: standing on gravel pea size or other gravel … Shod or barefoot …IMHO[/QUOTE]

That depends quite significantly on the type of gravel and how it’s applied. Densely packed gravel would typically be problematic for horses with hoof issues (I’m assuming that’s what you mean…) but a few inches of loose gravel is generally considered heavenly relief by any footsore horses I work with. It’s cool and they can sink their sore hooves into it, supporting the entire sole/frog. Thin soled, laminitic and IR/EMS type horses seek this stuff out like its manna from heaven.

We use a variety of different footings from screenings to pea gravel, A and B gravel, and recently large river stones. The only thing the sore footed ones avoid is packed B gravel.

[2DogsFarm]

Whatever size you end up using, be sure to put down geotextile fabric under it!
This piece of COTH Collective Wisdom solved my mud problems in a similar-sized paddock.
My excavator brought in what he called “road base” < irregular gravel sized anywhere from a couple inches in diameter to fist-sized rocks.
After 3 years it has packed down & drains so well I never have mud anywhere the geotex/gravel combo is down.
Shallow-rooted weeds do grow through, but mowing (set High) or weedwhacker or just hand-pulling can maintain,
Large size of the stone makes it easy to fork manure off too.

[TheJenners]

How far did you all dig down? Was it hard to find a contractor/excavator who knew what you needed? Looking at you two, 2Dogs and horsepoor!!! :winkgrin:

[SugarCubes]

I just did stonedust/limestone screenings in my paddocks. After a good rain, they compacted down into a solid surface. Easy to pick manure and hay off of, and enough give (as evidenced by slight hoof imprints) to be comfortable for the horses. Drains great, never gets muddy, and easy to clean

[bdj]

Awesome, y’all - this is exactly the kind of info I was hoping for.
I don’t think actual pea gravel was one of my options, but based on what’s been brought up here, I’m going to ask about screenings and see if we can start with bigger sized stone and get smaller as we get to the top.

What I’m hoping for is what SugarCubes mentioned - that whatever I put down will compact down into something that drains well and is easy to clean, but still has a little bit of give. Thankfully, my girl is not a digger - she’s a mature lady, and she’d rather spend her time eating and napping than tearing around (unless I’ve done something uncouth, like bring the vet out for spring shots or be overly late for turnout time…)

Thanks again!

[horsepoor]

[QUOTE=TheJenners;8712376]
How far did you all dig down? Was it hard to find a contractor/excavator who knew what you needed? Looking at you two, 2Dogs and horsepoor!!! :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

When we originally did our dry paddocks, we had just built the barn and already had a big pad of rock out there (the big road base type stuff, I think?). So no digging since we didn’t have a lot of mud or anything to get rid of.

Our original paddocks were geotextile on top of that rock, with a big layer of 5/8" minus gravel on top – I can’t remember now, but I want to say 6 to 8" of it? That was compacted then another 2" or so of pea gravel on top of that. This worked really well for a long time, until I got a young horse that dug. Which mixed the layers, created a mess, and he pulled up fabric and did all sorts of destructive things. It was because of him that we went with the Hoof-Grid (so for that, we had to scrape out some of the loose gravel on top to get to a good flat surface, then lay the Hoof-Grid and back fill/top off with pea gravel). Now, my neighbor did the same as my first method around the same time, and hers did great because she was smart and didn’t have any young warmbloods!

As for excavators - in a lot of ways, it is like building a road or something similar so I think most of these guys can understand it. The one we used was involved in all of our building (house, barn, and later my arena) and he was great. So we didn’t really seek him out specifically to do the horse “stuff” - we got hooked up by our general contractor building the house and then kept using the guy for anything else we needed.

[BUSY]

[QUOTE=SugarCubes;8712604]
I just did stonedust/limestone screenings in my paddocks. After a good rain, they compacted down into a solid surface. Easy to pick manure and hay off of, and enough give (as evidenced by slight hoof imprints) to be comfortable for the horses. Drains great, never gets muddy, and easy to clean :)[/QUOTE]

^ THIS !

[TheJenners]

Thanks… I bet I can get the guy I want to do my arena in the future out to talk…

The property I’m buying already has a (really nice) barn, my thought is one side will be fenced around using the barn as part of the “fence” for the donkeys, and the other already has panels for runs off the stalls. My (stupid)(young)(shoe pulling arsehole) WB gets mild laminitis in spring and fall and has crap feet, so keeping him in the those months would be good. I’m thinking about digging out that area that already has runs and make it one bigger run (what would come off two stalls only come off one) with a better surface.

[Quelah]

We use 1/4" by dust or 1/4" to dust (local vernacular varies) crushed rock. It packs fabulously. My horses have well bedded stalls attached to paddocks to I neither need nor want them lying down in paddocks, I prefer paddocks packed good and hard.

[2DogsFarm]

[QUOTE=TheJenners;8712376]
How far did you all dig down? Was it hard to find a contractor/excavator who knew what you needed? Looking at you two, 2Dogs and horsepoor!!! :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

Contractor took up 8" in the paddock before laying the geotex.
He was the same guy who did the base for my barn & indoor, plus various other smaller jobs over the 9yrs I’ve worked with him.
Always treated me fairly & work was completed as expected.
If an add was necessary he always came to me first to explain why and discuss alternatives. No surprises in outcome or prices!
I found him strictly by serendipity.
When I bought my farm it included a contract for a new septic (old one had failed the perc test). He was the contractor hired for that job by the seller.

[SharonA]

Bobcat guy took out about maybe 8 to 10 inches of soil/gluey hoof-sucking, boot-sucking mud/frozen postholes in mud, finding much semi-de-composed hay, mittens, horsehoes, flip-flops, etc. in the process. Then he put down maybe six inches of rock (two to four inch angular stuff), then covered that with a couple inches of compacted stonedust. Can I just say, it was life altering. Never saw mud in that area again. Easy to pick up manure and hay leavings off the hard-packed, fine stonedust.

Of course, horse was very suspicious of the smooth clean dry expanse, and would not walk out of her stall into her lovely new in/out paddock at first. Had to be led out onto it, and assured that it would not eat her.