Suggestions on How to Put Weight On (and keep it on) a Hard Keeper

[The_Fault_In_Our_Sta]

There is a horse at the barn where I work that is having trouble gaining weight/keeping weight on. She is a 9 year old Oldenburg in consistent work. UTD on worming (treated with Panacur in July), treated for ulcers in July, also. Pulled blood in August and came up with nothing.

Currently she is being fed 10lbs a day of complete pelleted feed (alfalfa base, beet pulp in the pellet.) with a cup of oil.

As far as ruffage goes she gets 3 flakes grass hay in the AM. Lunch hay she is fed in the pasture with 9 other horses, however she is alpha mare and gets more than her fill of hay, bossy girl that she is. PM she gets 4 flakes of grass hay.

What are your recommendations? I’ve heard a lot of alfalfa cubes and senior feed being suggested along with supplements from SmartPak to build muscle. Also, vitamin E supplement to be added with feed, along with ground flax seed.

I’d love to hear any and all suggestions!

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

So, my opinion is that oil is terrible for horses; it moves grain faster through the digestive tract (making it less likely to be fully absorbed) and the fat in the oil is also not absorbed. This is why we oil horses when they colic. If you want to provide a fat supplement to the horse’s feed you should provide a powdered (or pelleted) supplement like Cool Calories, or a stabilized rice bran.

It sounds like you are also feeding too much grain per sitting. The horse would benefit more from cutting back on some of the grain and providing beet pulp, alfalfa cubes, and/or a fat supplement. Large amounts of grain are poorly digested in the stomach and pass into the gut where the only partially digested grain isn’t supposed to be. It can then cause issues like hind gut ulcers. When you provide forage (like beet pulp and alfalfa cubes) in with the grain you protect the hind gut from ulceration and it spreads the grain out in the digestive tract making it easier for the horse to digest.

10lbs of straight grain is crazy. My mare is a hard keeper and she gained 35lbs in a month on 6lbs of Blue Seal Sentinel Performance LS, 4lbs of beet pulp, 1-2 flakes of alfalfa, 3 flakes of fescue hay (changing over to orchard/timothy), 8-10hrs turnout on an over-seeded pasture with fresh growing grass, and regular work.

You need to calculate how much forage this mare is consuming. If your pasture is really lush (which it probably isn’t this time of year) she could consume 1-1.4lbs per hour. If the pasture is going dormant, she is probably consuming less than 1lb per hour. As for the lunch hay, you still have to divide that by 9, and give her 1 pound more at most. She can only guard one pile at a time so everyone eats the hay and she won’t get much more than anyone else.

So start calculating how much forage she actually gets a day. She should be eating about 2-2.5% of her body weight per day in forage.

This is how you get a horse fat and healthy.

[WendellsGirl]

I have to say, I’m a believer in the Blue Seal LS now too. I moved 3 on to it and they are finally picking up weight. I only had one horse who didn’t like it, all the others think its great. I agree on all of colorful’s suggestions - its basically what we’re doing. Added 1-2 flakes of alfalfa a feeding, plus all the grass hay they’ll eat. Cool Calories is great for a picky one - it smells like candy. It is a powder but if you are feeding the beet pulp, it will stick to the wet in it.

[VirginiaBred]

You will have better results if you post this in the Horse Care forum.

[ClassyRide]

Forage should definitely be the focus. It has been proven time and again that is one of the keys to putting weight on horses. I agree with adding some alfalfa hay to see if that will put a few pounds on her.

Now, speaking strictly feed, I would look at changing to another type. Doesn’t sound like the one she’s on is bad, but might not be the right one to put weight on her (every horse is different). I know someone who had enormous success using Ultium on a very hard-keeping TB mare who was approximately the same age as the Oldenburg. (Link: http://horse.purinamills.com/products/ultium/ECMD2-0032693.aspx) Also, my vet just recently said she’s seen a lot of hard keepers do well on Amplify. (Link: http://horse.purinamills.com/products/HORSESUPPLEMENTS/ECMD2-0032705.aspx)

Best of luck! It’s tough to find the right combination for these really hard keepers. But, once you find what works, she’ll look fabulous!

[M_Owen]

I was going to say hay also. My somewhat hard keeper looks great now that she is eating 25-30 lbs of hay per day. I had to switch hay around a bit to find what she liked enough to eat that much. For grain she gets 2lbs per day of a 12% protein 13% fat beet pulp based. Nothing else at this point. Before getting her to eat all that hay she was getting 6 lbs per day of triple crown senior, 2lbs hay stretcher, plus cool calories. I offered her a lot of hay, but she wasn’t eating it. Finding a hay she would eat made a huge difference.

[cswoodlandfairy]

My horse isn’t a hard keeper, hes just hard to put weight on, but once he has it it doesn’t really lose it. So I have been battling for at least 4-5 years now trying to find the right combination for him.

When he came off the potential slaughter wagon he was so bad he couldn’t be ridden. We use senior feed (3 times a day), rice bran (twice a day) and a couple flakes of alfalfa in the fall. He plumped up. Once he started having exercise it got harder to find the right combination for him to keep his weight.

Well we just found the perfect mix for him. I won a free 5lb bag of TractGard and decided to give it a try. It was amazing what one month of him on that did. He doesn’t have ulcers but it also helps with hard keepers, coat and feet…so free bag why not! He went from 2.5 lbs 2x to 1.5lbs 2x. Then we just recently added a cup of sunflower seeds and he blew up! Pregnant comment have been made about him in regards to his weight, that has never happened before. So we took a .5 lb away and seeing how he does.

So right now he gets, each meal, 1.5 lb ofTriple Crown Senior Feed, 1 cup of sunflower seeds, and 2 scopes of TractGard and it has done wonders with him!

Best of luck!

[PoohLP]

My horse is a bit of a hard keeper, partly because he is big (17’1) and partly because he won’t stop growing. We’ve really struggled to get that last bit of muscle on him.

He currently gets:

6 qts daily Legend Performance Pellets (12 Protein/10 fat/18 Fiber/Low carbohydrates) http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/p-6219-legends-performance-12p-pelleted-horse-feed-50lb.aspx
5 qts daily beet pulp (measured pre-soaked) (might need to go up a qt once winter gets here - we’ll see)
4 oz daily cool calories
2 cups daily omega horseshine (basically ground flax seed - is for coat but also has a little extra some protein)
2 flakes daily alfalfa hay
Free choice coastal hay
Smart digest Ultra (priobiotic to help him absorb as much of the calories from his food as possible and keep his gut working well)
electrolytes

All of this is split over two feedings (except the coastal which h has free access to). Ideally, he’d get part of it as a lunch, but my barn is small and we don’t currently have the capacity to feed lunch regularly. The two flakes of alfalfa really makes a difference in getting that last little bit of protein he needs without adding lots of sugar and the cool calories lets me give him some extra fat without adding protein/sugars.

[Inclined]

The OTTB at our farm last year came with a body condition of between 2 and 3. When she left, she was about a 6. She got lots of grass forage in the warmer months (24 hour turnout) and as much hay as she could eat during the winter. The best feed was, believe it or not, a “safe choice” feed for easy keepers (low starch). It was beet pulp based, with a 12:6 protein to fat ratio. It was the only thing that put muscle on her, particularly her topline (vs. a “fiber belly”). Her coat looked incredible, and the farrier said her hooves looked better than he’d ever seen them.

[snaffle635]

I had really good luck on my hard-keeper TB (post colic surgery) with Nutrena XTN.

[BostonHJ]

I don’t know that he qualifies as a hard keeper, per se, but my TB definitely needed a few hundred pounds when I got him and drops weight the second you mess with any element of his feeding. He gets a fair amount grass/timothy hay per day, grass turnout, the SmartPak cocosoya powder and Nutrena Pro Force Fuel. Great feed that doesn’t even come close to making them hot. http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/pro-force-horse-feed/pro-force-fuel/index.jsp

[Lord_Helpus]

You will do bettwe with 3 - 4 feedings day. I agree that a horse does not digest 10qts at once, especially with oil added.

My horse, who was coming back from starvation (don’t ask – bad deal) started with 4 meals a day, he is now down to 3. He also gets: the beet pulp that looks like corn chex cereal, a prebiotic, stabilized rice bran, a hoof supplement, alfalfa/orchard grass hay and very good (well fertilized/top seeded and weed killed every spring) grass in his field 20 hours a day.

He is 23 and has gained near 100 pounds in 4 months.

Since he is turned out with a dominant buddy, they both get brought in for breakfast and stay in through lunch. Then they eat dinner together out in the field (just the regular pellets that the other old guy gets).

Even at his age, the weight gain has been miraculous.

[gypsymare]

Hay can have vastly different degrees of digestibility depending on when it was cut. First thing I’d do is provide 2nd or 3rd cutting alfalfa/grass mix free choice. Could end up being 40+ lbs a day. Then evaluate the pellet. What’s the protein/fat ratio and NSC value? 10 lbs is not a ridiculous amount for an alf/BP pellet but calorie density can run from 1000-1800kcal/lb. TC Senior is almost universally recommended on other hard keeper threads because of the 10% fat and ultra low NSC level.

I’ve always found that maintaining weight is so much easier once they get some fat on them. You can usually cut back at some point. I’ve had success with adding oil. It’s a very energy dense and economical addition.

[ellevt]

My hard keeper gets 10 pounds of TC Senior, 4 pounds of alfalfa pellets, 1 cup oil, and free access to hay/ pasture all day. This is split into 2 meals a day. I would love it to be split into 3 meals, but not currently possible.

I’ve found that he is a complete weenie about flies/ bugs, so my BM (whom I LOVE TO DEATH) has been keeping hay in his run-in shed so that he can eat in there when the bugs are bad. Otherwise he just sits in there and doesn’t eat and loses weight.

I don’t really like panacur for adult horses. What are her fecals like? Monthly monitoring is really the only way to go.

[TheBrownHorse]

I agree that’s a lot of grain at once.

LMF girl, you’ve got it handy use it!

Platinum Performance, if you can afford it, is amazing. Red was on it.

[drkarins]

My two cents now that my hard keeper has “curves”…

1. Teeth, religiously and regularly. Better to have the vet say nothing needed than to let it go even a month too long.
2. With the history of ulcers, I would highly recommend one of the Smartpak GI protectants.
3. Platinum Performance or Omega Horseshine.
4. Vitamin E (I like Smartpak)
5. Do fecal for worms, can be resistance
6. Regumate will help them put weight on and then you can wean it off when she’s at steady state

[The_Fault_In_Our_Sta]

Thank you all for the helpful suggestions! I will keep you all updated on how this mare does. I think we’re going to start with the alfalfa cubes and spreading out her feedings along with adding one of the supplements suggested.

[mpsbarnmanager]

I have an 8 yr old WB gelding that came to my in June a good 100 lbs underweight.

He was on Blue Seal Sentinal LS before he came to me, but was only getting about 6 lbs a day. I slowly increased him to a total of 12lbs a day, split into 3 equal feedings. Plus 2 scoops twice a day of cool calories, 3 qts dry beet pulp pellets that I then soaked, free choice orchard hay (in a new to avoid waste), 2 lbs or so alfalfa or alfalfa cubes, and all night turnout on good grass. It took until September to get him filled in, but now he looks great, and he’s down to 6 lbs grain in two feedings, still on free choice hay and a little alfalfa, down to one scoop cool cals per feeding, and no more beet pulp.

It takes so much longer to get them to gain than it does to loose! Good luck!

[Kerrysmom818]

My TB is a pretty hard keeper - I’ve tried various things over the years - but, finally found what works for him. He currently gets (in addition to his regular feed - grass/alfalfa hay (3 x per day); 2 lbs (2x per day) grain - high fat, 12% protein pellets): AM - 1.5 lbs Triple Crown Senior, 2 cups flax seed, 2 scoops Cool Calories plus supplements. PM (post ride-soaked) - 1.5 lbs Triple Crown Senior, 2 scoops alfalfa cubes, one scoop Cool Calories.

[M_O_Connor]

The key is to provide the right type of roughage in quantities what will lead to weight gain.

A horse needs to consume roughage equal to at least 1.5% of its body weight daily just for fueling body functions and weight maintenance, and more (2-2.5%) in order to gain weight.

Feeding ‘more grain’ in hopes of increasing weight can be counter productive, as a horse’s stomach is only so large–grain is digested in the stomach and small intestine enzymatically, while roughage is digested through fermentation in the much larger hind gut. Excess grain that isn’t digested in the stomach and small intestine and will not be digested efficiently in the hind gut.

http://www.ker.com/library/advances/319.pdf

So basically, to get scientific about ensuring weight gain, you will need to provide your horse with roughage that is palatable, digestible, and dense enough in calories (a nice alfalfa mix, for example) in a quantity sufficient for weight gain (2-2.5% of body weight), and then make sure it’s ingested. The last part of the equation is the activity level of the horse–the heavier the work load (show horses are most often considered to be in ‘moderate’ work at most) the greater the calorie requirements will be.

Depending on what these are, a ‘grain’ ration can supply micronutrients vitamins, minerals, and some extra calories, but these will have to be delivered in quantities (small) and at intervals (frequent) to allow for the effective digestion.

Ideally you would want to supply your horse with a near continuous supply of appropriate roughage (richer in nutrients and calories for hard keepers, lower/less dense for easy keepers) supplemented by a grain or ration balancer given at regular intervals per day aimed at optimizing digestion.