Suitable fabric for driving apron

My mom is an expert seamstress and is going to make me a driving apron. :slight_smile: I have a pattern, and am wondering what the most suitable sort of fabric would be. I am very, very much going to be sticking to amateur/low level stuff for the foreseeable future: pleasure classes, mini-cones fun classes, maybe MAYBE a Training level CDE in the next year or two.

My cart is black with wood accents, pony is a loud piebald Shetland (with blue eyes!) and my harness is black. I am very much into understated and can’t for the life of me see dressing in anything frilly or over the top.

So any advice on proper fabric/colors for my soon-to-be driving skirt would be appreciated. Also, any references (books, pamphlets) on suitable attire. ADS Rulebook is on order already, and I do have a trainer but I like to muddle through this type of stuff on my own. (with a little help from COTH!) :slight_smile:

Thanks.

Spooky coincidence… was talking about aprons earlier tonight. I’ve got a customer who wants me to either make her or lend her one.

A very dark burgandy would contrast well.

Black always looks traditional and smart but you might want to wear something a little brighter to contrast with it.

Needs to be wool or box cloth and with a something like a tattersall check lining on the inside.

Don’t know what box cloth is, but would a light, summer wool be OK?

I would think you would want a fabric that wouldn’t flap around too much. I wonder if you could make the apron itself out of a lighter fabric and put a heavier braid or binding around the edges to keep it lying nice and tidy.

But what do I know? :slight_smile:

Your pony sounds lovely!

It sort of wraps around and you mostly sit on it. Not much to flap. Darn silly things, if you ask me–I sort of hate the idea of being wrapped up like a sausage if I have to make any quick moves, but the fashion is the FASHION. :lol:

erm… box cloth is erm well “box cloth” :wink:

Everyone knows what box cloth is… don’t they???

It’s what driving aprons and livery coats are made out of :winkgrin:

http://www.rideanddrive.co.uk/access/pages/wear.htm

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OdJNZ_xJR_4C&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=box+cloth+driving+apron&source=bl&ots=5le7vBJZvd&sig=oAw5TYno1VWbRkN97wkjbLyW85w&hl=en&ei=gIDqSczUIqSOjAfp_ryeCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2

http://www.anvil.clara.net/stage.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9802E0D9143FE433A25756C2A96E9C946097D6CF

I think a slate grey wool with blue trim and perhaps a blue blouse that matches the pony’s eyes would be really pretty. http://www.shopwiki.com/detail/d=Carriage_Driving_Apron/ is the colour I was thinking of for the main apron portion.

According to a couple of resources I found, pants-weight wool gabardine is recommended.

I’ve been sewing costumes in the film industry for years. I have NO idea what box cloth is. The livery coats I’ve made are wool. I’ve googled “box cloth” and found cloth boxes. You said they’re made of “wool” or “box cloth”. Wool is a fibre, I’m guessing that box cloth is wool, but a special weave? Or that’s been treated somehow??

I normally make my aprons out of wool. The bottom is lined with pigskin and the top is a check of some sort. There’s usually a monogram on them, and then the top is on on nylon belting and I set grommets in it on one side and buckles on the other. The monogram is usually felt and satin stitched by machine, or blanket stitched my hand.

Thomas - is this a suitable livery jacket?
http://www.lafnmoon.com/frock_coat.html

It is indeed wool and to be honest I’ve not a clue what makes it “box cloth” as opposed to just wool.

You never know it might be something as silly as it becomes box cloth when it’s used for driving livery…

You know as in on the Box Seat??!!

You saw the links I posted though did you?

Deltawave- can you get some fabric samples and see which colour/patten looks best with your setup? It should give you a good idea of what looks good, and what dosen’t go at all. :slight_smile:

Thanks for all the additional info and ideas. I do like the idea of a gray with subtle blue trim. It’s sort of hard to clash with black and white, I guess, but I don’t need to make our turnout any louder, that’s for sure, than the pony herself! :lol:

I’ve got my legal whip, whip holder, brown pigskin gloves–just need to resign myself to the fact that I have to wear a HAT. :rolleyes:

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I’m looking forward to seeing your turnout once it is ready! I know that helmets are really important to you, but they aren’t traditional for that style of driving.Could you wear something along the lines of this with some flowers or feathers, maybe cut down the brim a bit? Or, a more traditional styled hat that was large enough to go over the helmet and be attached to it? The harness would still show, but you could decorate it with some ribbon or lace or some such. Of course, you’d need to confirm that it would be legal in the show ring.

From http://www.narrow-fabrics-manufacturers.com/textile-terms.html :
Box cloth : An all-wool, woollen-spun fabric with a fibrous surface and firm handle. The surface should be completely covered with fibres so that no threads show. It is woven in a variety of weaves, depending on the weight of the finished cloth and, according to weight, used for such purposes as leggings, coachman’s cloths and billiard cloth.

It’s not so much that I’m a helmet Nazi (although I am for the most part) but that I detest wearing hats unless it’s my NY Giants baseball cap while I’m riding my tractor. :slight_smile: I do have a nice straw hat that I used for jogs at events that should be suitable. Maybe a blue hat-band to match the pony’s eyes. :wink:

So box cloth sounds like really hairy wool. :slight_smile:

I think it’s not so much hairy as sturdy, and felted. Here’s another reference:

Melton
Fibre: Wool, sometimes combined with synthetics.
Weave: Twill or satin weave.
Characteristics: Thick well fulled or felted wool with a smooth surface. Napped and very closely sheared. Coarse meltons are similar to makinaws but made of finer yarns and finished with a smoother, more lustrous surface - used for “under collar cloth” in lighter weights. Very solid cloth due to the finishing processes that completely conceal the weave. It wears very well. Wind resistant. if made in tan or buff colour in a coarse quality, it is called “Box cloth”. It is classed with kersey, beaver, and broadcloth. Originated in Melton, Mowbray, England, which is a fox hunting report in england. It was first made as a hunting cloth. Looks like wool felt - pressed flat.
Uses: Mostly used for men in overcoating, uniform cloth of all kinds (army, navy, etc., as well as police and firemen), pea jackets, regal liverly. Used for heavy outer sports garments and coats for women.

Thomas, as a fairly accomplished seamstress, I haven;t a clue what box cloth is. So to answer your question, not every one knows what box cloth is!!!:lol::winkgrin:

I would use a medium weight material–there are all kinds of wools blends and synthetics that wash up so much better than real wool. I have some that are wool polyester blends that are okay but my favorite is a herringbone pattern in blue. It is a material that is used in jackets.

The thing you want is enough flap to catch about your butt and enough waist to allow you to breath. Too many folks don;t put the butt flap big enough and their aprons don;t work well.

A double sided apron also works well. It puts enough weight on the apron to stay and gives you two choices!!!

[QUOTE=deltawave;4032952]
Thanks for all the additional info and ideas. I do like the idea of a gray with subtle blue trim. It’s sort of hard to clash with black and white, I guess, but I don’t need to make our turnout any louder, that’s for sure, than the pony herself! :lol:

I’ve got my legal whip, whip holder, brown pigskin gloves–just need to resign myself to the fact that I have to wear a HAT. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

DW, I wear a Troxel Sierra helmet. They come in a nice tan or black, have suede and are classy enough to go with a nice turnout. I have hats but I always feel naked without my helmet. I have seen folks make matching helmet covers, put little decorative things like you see on berets on them or hat bands, etc. You cannot be marked down for wearing a helmet.

I would say from looking at antiques and museums, that the cloth over the driver’s seat, is not the same fabric used in Livery coat or driving aprons.

I also would suggest a cloth that is washable, just so much easier to care for in out heat and different weathers. I would go with velcro over buckles and straps. Easier on and off if you need to remove in a hurry. I don’t want mine too long, to tangle my feet if climbing in, so make sure your shoes are shined and you have subtle socks. Pants would show beneath the apron hem. Not sure on skirts anymore. Used to be apron was shorter than skirt hem, but fashion changes. Judge could see the skirt, did not need to flip back the corner, maybe embarass someone with short skirt by getting both skirt AND apron flipped back! Walnut Hill has had skirt checks, no shorts allowed as stated in the rules! Trophies have changed hands over that!

I have some great linen looking material, grey nubby, light, has gone well in a lot of turnouts. Washes and dries quickly, pretty wrinkle free.

Helmet is totally legal in all classes, and being seen more. Elastics to help hold hat on in the wind, are a suggestion. Close fitting will not catch the wind like some big-brimmed ones, can be quite attractive. Shopping for new, Macy’s might have some. I know the Macy’s in Flint has a much better selection than Lansing. More demand from the Church ladies in Flint, who pride themselves on stylish head gear. Others find good stuff on Ebay or the thrift stores for low prices.

Wearing hats is more of a practice thing, you have to practice wearing to be comfortable. I always wore western hats riding, so changing to Driving hats was not hard. I wear hats outside most of the time, for sun protection, and big brimmed ones cover more of me. Got a great one in Shipshewana for $5!! Nice shape to the brim, fits well. Had to get some practice fedoras for husband to wear daily. He never wore hats then and thought he looked funny in ANYTHING. With daily wearing, hat became a common feeling, so he quit being self-conscious about it, quit noticing hat at all. Now a hat is a regular part of him getting ready to drive, shades his eyes.

[QUOTE=Cartfall;4034252]
Thomas, as a fairly accomplished seamstress, I haven;t a clue what box cloth is. So to answer your question, not every one knows what box cloth is!!!:lol::winkgrin:[/QUOTE] :lol: I can’t believe I didn’t know what it was either! My wife always says “by gosh you know some rubbish”. No one EVER wants to play trivial pursuits with me! I’m great in pub quizzes too!

You’ve no idea how this bugged the heck out of me! :confused:

But I set myself off thinking when I said:

You never know it might be something as silly as it becomes box cloth when it’s used for driving livery…

You know as in on the Box Seat??!!

I didn’t know if that was buried somewhere in the recesses of my fuddled old brain as something I’d maybe once read!

And I did actually mean when you were ON the box seat. Rather than what the seat was covered in! (Old days that was leather, leather, or leather!)

So it sent me off to my collection of antiquarian driving reference material and all over that going way way way back are references to aprons and jackets made out of box cloth. It describes summer jackets in light box cloth. Aprons in light box cloth. Formal livery coats in heavy box cloth. But NOTHING as in ZILCH to say what it is!

So I gave up after hours of trawling through and rang the person who repairs my livery jackets and who’s made me some to match originals. “What is box cloth” I demanded to know! “It’s what driving jackets and aprons are made of” she replied. “I know that. But what is it”. I went on to explain how I’d been asked and it was frustrating the heck out of me that I didn’t know. “But you do know” she went on “It’s just any traditional wool fabric that is used to make anything that is going to be worn on the box seat” :rolleyes::uhoh::dead::p:)

So there you have it!

Make the bleeding apron out of wool!!! :winkgrin:

So an apron is just a light wool and according to my “expert” wool is best for 2 reasons:

[LIST=1]

  • showing at high level then the judge will be fussy and expect to see traditional (might not be a factor there?? I'm sure someone who has a clue would answer that!)
  • It keeps you warm in winter and cool in summer and is water resistent and water ends up in your lap when you drive! (you might not have the sort of rain we have though. Here every time you bath your horse and clean your carriage and go to a show it P*isses down! ;) [/LIST] Here aprons for showing are always plain fabric - never patterned.

    They’re always lined and the traditional ones always have something like a tattersall checked lining on the inside but often they are reversible. I’ve a few reversible.

    You need it long enough to cover all your clothing and to discreetly cover yur legs. It shouldn’t be knee or skirt length (well again not here anyways!)

    It should wrap right round.

    And I was “training” my customer how to wear one and walk and mount wearing one so this might be useful for you too:

    You take the bottom left corner of the apron with your right hand and raise it to the centre waistband and tuck it in there. You take the bottom right corner with your left hand to the centre waist band and tuck it in there. ONLY then, step forward, take your reins and mount the vehicle.

    Try walking with a traditional long driving apron and you’re likely to get it wrapped round your trouser legs and fall over it and go arse over tit! Though I’m thinking that you ladies are probably more used to walking with long skirts than I am! :wink:

  • Along with Thomas’s interesting commentary, consider the vehicle you are driving. Road Cart is not easily entered, as a Phaeton is or an Easy Entry cart. So sometimes Driver and Passenger NEED to wear dressy pants.

    In my time being critiqued by Tom Ryder and Leslie Kozely, they actually mentioned this point. They used me for all kinds of examples!! Tom pointed out the features of our Road cart, height, to have to reach for entry in front of wheel, along with getting over the shaft. Back entry over seat was safer with folding seatbacks, but still a long stretch for the person to reach basket with legs. He said such a design was a “slacks only” vehicle for ladies to drive. We were NOT to be giving “Free Shows” by wearing skirts in this style vehicle, because it WOULD NOT influence the Judge’s opinion, though he might be smiling thru the class! Leslie was laughing pretty hard, but agreed with everything said.

    Then Tom talked about my hat in front of the whole group too!

    I had a great time at that Clinic and those Gentlemen put a LOT of gossip and myths about Driving attire and correctness, their expectations, FASHION and color in hats and skirts or slacks, lap robes as opposed to aprons, to rest. They told why some items were “just poor choices” in clothing or hat styling on both genders. Much had to do with practicality, like my slacks while driving the Road Cart. Skirt just would be a BAD choice because lady driver would have difficulty staying modest when entering. Skirt with an easy entry cart would be fine, let driver retain her modesty in entering. Much tradition mixed in, but they were not opposed to color on turnouts. Complimented my red hat in both color and style, for being attractive, staying on well in a carriage. You should have HEARD the gasping sounds from the crowd!!

    All this was a great revelation to me, because I had heard terrible things about both men from previous exhibitors whom they had judged. Heard about their taste in color, styles, SLACKS on lady drivers and ESPECIALLY how they BOTH HATED RED HATS and would not place anyone wearing one!! All just before entering the ring for performance and evaluation by them AND their collection of Learner Judges!! I was REALLY braced for some scathing commentary, since I chose my attire to look nice on me, go with the horse, but got no negative remarks at all. Rather limp with relief after!! Thanked them for all the helpful information and nice remarks on the turnout.

    Talked with the other folks again after the evaluations finished and they were all quite shocked about the Red Hat remarks and clothing comments. Changed everything they “knew” about the Judging that was used for Pleasure Driving and why people placed or did not place. Very eye opening for all of us.

    Times have changed, but still a lot of folks trying to follow ideas that are NOT locked in stone, like the red hat thing.

    My grey laprobe has no pattern, just a little textured, Nubby, with flecks of white and black all over it. Flecks only visible very close up. Very breathable material in the heat, but not what you would want on a rainy day. We have a wool apron, but is an extremely light weight, lined with satin like a dress coat. Doesn’t stick to your slacks or pants while worn or walking. Professionally made to match husband’s dress coat, ending above the ankles when put on correctly, with top up high above waist level to cover clothing. Still very warm in our humid conditions of summer. June humidity can be up in the 80 percent in midday competition, with temps up around 80F degrees. Wool would not be my first choice in material, too much work to maintain in summer showing.

    I will tell husband about tucking in the corners when entering. Will be easier to get apron on him while standing on the ground, than when in the vehicle, to avoid tripping over it climbing up to his seat. Thank you Thomas for the tip.

    I’d drop a line to John Greenall in Vermont. He’s the Turnout expert in several driving magazines, he also has some turnout commentaries in the CDL website.

    http://www.vermontel.com/~greenall/Specials/appointments%20.html

    http://www.carriagedriving.net/

    http://www.carriagedriving.net/index.php?m=a&a=36 There are 4 turnout articles with photos on this site.

    John’s very good, very reasonable and doesn’t want carriage driving to look like something at a Devon funeral. Color is your friend, especially with a lovely colored pony.