Summit IM joint "supplement"

[Mardebri]

I first used this product on my 24 year old miniature pony who I was considering putting down because he was in so much pain. After the first injection, I thought it was a fluke because he was noticeably better. After his third injection he was trotting in his paddock. It has now been 2-1/2 weeks since his last loading injection and he is moving quite freely, even with winter being so cold.

I loved his results so much, I’ve used it on four horses since then. These horses are all showing improvement, less cranky to the jumps and coming out less stiff.

This product is so awesome, I’ve now started using it on my show dogs who show in confirmation and agility, faster weaves, less poles down.

[Simkie]

@Mardebri

I first used this product on my 24 year old miniature pony who I was considering putting down because he was in so much pain. After the first injection, I thought it was a fluke because he was noticeably better. After his third injection he was trotting in his paddock. It has now been 2-1/2 weeks since his last loading injection and he is moving quite freely, even with winter being so cold.

I loved his results so much, I’ve used it on four horses since then. These horses are all showing improvement, less cranky to the jumps and coming out less stiff.

This product is so awesome, I’ve now started using it on my show dogs who show in confirmation and agility, faster weaves, less poles down.

Huh. Another brand new poster singing the praises of this stuff. Interesting. And how did you find it?

And you show your dogs in “confirmation”? What breed?

[lifeishorsesarelove]

@Simkie

Huh. Another brand new poster singing the praises of this stuff. Interesting. And how did you find it?

And you show your dogs in “confirmation”? What breed?

Smells like snake oil. The plural of anecdote is not data!!

even if they produce more evidence than these brand new posters and their “factual” anecdotes, I wouldn’t touch this company with a 10 foot pole, much less stick a needle full of their bull $#!+ into my horse.

[India_s_Mom]

As a 27 year medical professional, I understand the hesitation of using a product that you feel hasn’t been tested and researched enough.

I also understand how the “system”
works and FDA approval can take years. There are many instances in human and animal medicine where products, drugs, and devices have been beneficial (even lifesaving) without FDA approval.

I decided to try Summit JP on my 9 yo American Trakener Mare. About 18 months ago, I had her hocks injected for first time. The fluid in her joints was pretty watery. I knew at this point that joint protection was going to be important in keeping her sound.

Also, she was never a super soft, supple horse. She has gotten both Adequan and Legend injections on a regular basis.

I felt that using these products was the “right thing” to do. But honestly, I didn’t see or feel a significant difference in her. She still wasn’t super soft and supple. She would go forward, but often times it was like she was “running away” from something. She jumped fairly flat. I was a little disappointed as I bought her as a 4 yo was really hoping she would be my 3ft horse.

When i I heard about Summit JP (formerly Chondranol) I was skeptical and a little leary as it is a compounded substance.

After doing some research and asking lots of questions, I decided to give it a try for my mare AND for myself.

We started our injections the same week. We have now completed the loading doses and we are both feeling amazing!!

My mare is SUPER soft and supple. She is so much more bendy, willing to go forward and uber responsive. There is no lag time from the aid to the reaction. She is moving more freely in every part of her body. This week she was jumping 2ft verticals like they were 3’6" oxers. Her knees were up as high as they can go and the roundness in the jump felt amazing. The best part of all this is that she is ENJOYING her work!!

I am 47 yo with significant medical history. I have degenerative disc disease in C4/5, C6/7, and a herniation in C7/T1. I also tend to have lots of muscle discomfort and nerve pain. Much caused by neck issue and some caused by other autoimmune disorders.

I feel like I am in my mid 20’s again!! I have NO PAIN at all!! I noticed a difference just 3 days after the first injection. I felt the biggest difference after the 3rd injection. I pretty much lived on NSAIDS and Tramadol. NOT anymore. I haven’t taken anything in 2 1/2 weeks!!

To me Chonrotin A isn’t a drug, but a supplement. It is an integral component our body needs to feel good and reduce inflammation. Maybe over time, we will learn that Chondrotin A is capable of rebuilding cartlidge and making joint fluid more viscous

In my profession, I have been amazed over the past 15 years in the science gains in skin care products, dermal fillers, and even a drink that rebuilds collagen from the inside out. I truly believe the science is there to support the improvements I have experienced with Summit JP and Ortho-Nuvi.

I will be interested to see how we hold up with the monthly maintence plan. I will likely do extra doses befofre competing.

We are customers for life!!

PS: I am not connected to the company in any way. I am just a customer.

[Simkie]

@India's Mom

As a 27 year medical professional, I understand the hesitation of using a product that you feel hasn’t been tested and researched enough.

I also understand how the “system”
works and FDA approval can take years. There are many instances in human and animal medicine where products, drugs, and devices have been beneficial (even lifesaving) without FDA approval.

I decided to try Summit JP on my 9 yo American Trakener Mare. About 18 months ago, I had her hocks injected for first time. The fluid in her joints was pretty watery. I knew at this point that joint protection was going to be important in keeping her sound.

Also, she was never a super soft, supple horse. She has gotten both Adequan and Legend injections on a regular basis.

I felt that using these products was the “right thing” to do. But honestly, I didn’t see or feel a significant difference in her. She still wasn’t super soft and supple. She would go forward, but often times it was like she was “running away” from something. She jumped fairly flat. I was a little disappointed as I bought her as a 4 yo was really hoping she would be my 3ft horse.

When i I heard about Summit JP (formerly Chondranol) I was skeptical and a little leary as it is a compounded substance.

After doing some research and asking lots of questions, I decided to give it a try for my mare AND for myself.

We started our injections the same week. We have now completed the loading doses and we are both feeling amazing!!

My mare is SUPER soft and supple. She is so much more bendy, willing to go forward and uber responsive. There is no lag time from the aid to the reaction. She is moving more freely in every part of her body. This week she was jumping 2ft verticals like they were 3’6" oxers. Her knees were up as high as they can go and the roundness in the jump felt amazing. The best part of all this is that she is ENJOYING her work!!

I am 47 yo with significant medical history. I have degenerative disc disease in C4/5, C6/7, and a herniation in C7/8. I also tend to have lots of muscle discomfort and nerve pain. Much caused by neck issue and some caused by other autoimmune disorders.

I feel like I am in my mid 20’s again!! I have NO PAIN at all!! I noticed a difference just 3 days after the first injection. I felt the biggest difference after the 3rd injection. I pretty much lived on NSAIDS and Tramadol. NOT anymore. I haven’t taken anything in 2 1/2 weeks!!

To me Chonrotin A isn’t a drug, but a supplement. It is an integral component our body needs to feel good and reduce inflammation. Maybe over time, we will learn that Chondrotin A is capable of rebuilding cartlidge and making joint fluid more viscous

In my profession, I have been amazed over the past 15 years in the science gains in skin care products, dermal fillers, and even a drink that rebuilds collagen from the inside out. I truly believe the science is there to support the improvements I have experienced with Summit JP and Ortho-Nuvi.

I will be interested to see how we hold up with the monthly maintence plan. I will likely do extra doses befofre competing.

We are customers for life!!

PS: I am not connected to the company in any way. I am just a customer.

A herniation at C7/8 huh? And you’re a medical professional??

There are only seven cervical vertebrae. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Three brand new posters who think this is just a miracle cure. SUUUUUUPER obvious this is all falsified. Bet it’s the people selling it. Which just makes it that much more shady. Wow.

[India_s_Mom]

Actually I am not working for the company. I sent an unsolicited text to some of the owners today with my experience and happiness of the product. One of them asked if I would be willing to do a review on true FB page. As a business owner myself, I frequently ask my patients to leave reviews.

I frequebtky read COTH, but you are right that I’m not a poster before today. I decided to create an account and post in the thread because I truly am thrilled with the product!! Plain and simple. I’m not here to convince anyone. I’m merely offering my opinion and experience as are you. Thankfully we live in a great country where we get to freely express our opinions.

[Simkie]

@India's Mom

Actually I am not working for the company. I sent an unsolicited text to some of the owners today with my experience and happiness of the product. One of them asked if I would be willing to do a review on true FB page. As a business owner myself, I frequently ask my patients to leave reviews.

I frequebtky read COTH, but you are right that I’m not a poster before today. I decided to create an account and post in the thread because I truly am thrilled with the product!! Plain and simple. I’m not here to convince anyone. I’m merely offering my opinion and experience as are you. Thankfully we live in a great country where we get to freely express our opinions.

For posterity!

[India_s_Mom]

@Simkie

A herniation at C7/8 huh? And you’re a medical professional??

There are only seven cervical vertebrae. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Three brand new posters who think this is just a miracle cure. SUUUUUUPER obvious this is all falsified. Bet it’s the people selling it. Which just makes it that much more shady. Wow.

[India_s_Mom]

Thank you for the anatomy correction. You did so in such a kind and considerate way. You are right. Does that make you feel better? A minor error should not elicit such an insulting response.

You need to learn to communicate in a mature way. It’s people like you that make the world so unpleasant.

[India_s_Mom]

Id be happy to share before and after videos of my mare.

[Laurierace]

I am just an EMT so not really a “medical professional” but I do have two herniated discs in my neck and certainly could never mistake them for a vertebra that didn’t exist. To the newbies, we have had an influx of greenies singing the praises of a product out of the blue over the years who were all the incarnations of the person shilling the product so we have a track history that makes these sort of posts suspect.

[Ghazzu]

@India's Mom

Thank you for the anatomy correction. You did so in such a kind and considerate way. You are right. Does that make you feel better? A minor error should not elicit such an insulting response.

You need to learn to communicate in a mature way. It’s people like you that make the world so unpleasant.

And it’s people like you who make others so suspicious.

[RegentLion]

I find it doubtful that a product is going to fix the VERY significant issue reported here…to the point that these horses are able to function at SUCH a higher level than before.

And if they CAN, I worry that this drug is masking pain to the point of detriment to the horse’s body by overworking it on compromised joints.

but that could just be me being conservative

[Simkie]

@RegentLion

I find it doubtful that a product is going to fix the VERY significant issue reported here…to the point that these horses are able to function at SUCH a higher level than before.

And if they CAN, I worry that this drug is masking pain to the point of detriment to the horse’s body by overworking it on compromised joints.

but that could just be me being conservative

I don’t think you’re being too conservative at all! :lol:

@India’s Mom @DressageGal @Mardebri and Dr Hausman (who is the vet behind this stuff?) if you truly believe in this stuff, then run a real, actual research study. Creating alters on a message board to pimp your product doesn’t work–at least not here.

This is what a study looks like: https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.77.10.1064?journalCode=ajvr

In fact, contact Frisbie and have him run yours. That would lend a HUUUUGE amount of credibility. His email address is even right there for you. Granted, he may not be willing to use some mystery substance that has zip zero zilch in the way of any sort of FDA approval, but you can find out.

Also note that the Polyglycan in the study, which is HA, N-acetyl-d-glucosamine and chondroitin, showed a negative effect. Pretty scary. Especially when HA has been studied pretty extensively with positive benefit (as Legend and others) and N-acetyl-d-glucosamine has been studied with positive to neutral effect (by the Adequan people, when N-acetyl-d-glucosamine was being used frequently as a “generic” Adequan) but chondroitin alone has not been studied in equines in this manner, at least not in any published paper I was able to source. (Can anyone else find anything?) (I did find this paper with the rather concerning title Chondroitin sulphate glycosaminoglycans contribute to widespread inferior biomechanics in tendon after focal injury) That’s certainly not to say that the chondroitin is for sure responsible for the negative effects seen with the Polyglycan, but Frisbie’s results are very, very concerning and worth noting and exploring.

So, Summit people: test your stuff. SHOW US in a randomized, blinded trial that it does what you say it does.

[ClerkofCourts]

Agreed the posts above sound way too much like scammy “testimonials”. I remain a hopeful skeptic that they can provide the studies they’re claiming on their site. I emailed both through their site and regular email at least a week ago and haven’t had any response. I just reached out to Heather Farmer directly, the DVM that was posting on Vet’s corner. Again, I would be THRILLIED if this was the amazing magic bullet that they’re claiming, I just REALLY wish they wouldn’t appear so shady about the details. Yah know, cuz science.

[RegentLion]

Well don’t ya know they “weren’t ready” to be out to the public yet.

In other words maybe they hadn’t fabricated their studies yet??? That’s surely how it’s starting to look. Sadly. Because i, too, wanted to believe.

[Simkie]

Geez, if only people weren’t so mean, insisting on things like proof of efficacy and safety :lol: :lol:

[ktho513]

I’ve been following most of these Summit threads with extreme skepticism. The more stories I hear, the more I believe this product is nothing but bad news. I asked my vet about it and his comment was “if you have an old arthritic horse you’re trying to make pasture sound, I say go ahead, but otherwise, I’d stick with adequan.”

So, that comment led me to believe that it is at least safe. I’m now having my doubts. I don’t mean side effects. I mean, masking some issue, and people now riding horses that weren’t even serviceable prior to summit. One in particular was posted today about a horse with some traumatic injuries to a back leg and abdomen. She had since had a string halt like movement in her hind leg. 2 doses of summit and she is “in training again”. Videos to show improvement. To me, this is appalling. At what point as a horse owner do you think “ok, this just seems too good to be true”??? If I had a terribly lame horse, put them on summit and it made them completely riding sound within 72 hours, I’d probably be alarmed.

Anywho. That’s my two cents on this “miracle” supplement. I have zero intentions to use it, no matter how many testimonies they receive. Until there is backed up studies to show I’m not making issues worse by riding a horse on summit, I will not be using it, certainly not in any of my working horses.

cheers!!

[JessP]

Wow. Ok. I got a message from a jumper friend that told me my post about Summit had been mentioned pretty harshly here.
I’m the one with the mare with the trauma and hind limb injury. So let me give you a few facts. As it wasn’t quite as portrayed above.
This trauma occurred in December 2016. The mare has been carefully rehabbed full time since she came home from 63 days in the vet hospital. Actually, she’s not home. She has been in full time rehab. Complete with vet care, her trainer, and a physical therapist. She is completely healed and healthy, with the exception of the “stringhalt-like” gait abnormality on the leg that was cut. We have been to some of the top Sports Med vets in the country. With no answers. This is a mechanical lameness. It does not block out. We suspect the tendon sheath is depleted of fluid, and creates friction on the extensor during stride. Depletion would make sense, since she had a severe systemic trauma. Adequan did nothing. Stretching, dry needling, then class 4 laser had improved her to about 50% normal. She had very normal days. And then days that weren’t so great.

This has had been a mystery for many involved with her. It has been frustrating. When I heard about Summit on that FB group, I contacted a trusted Sports Med vet, and he said it wouldn’t hurt. So I contacted them. They have been very free with information with me. They have also answered every question I have asked. They have also made follow up calls to see how my mare is doing. They also were very open with me and said that it may not work for her, since she is a complex case. And if it didn’t improve, they would refund my money. I’m a surgical device rep. I understand science. I also know about chondroitin Sulfate in corneal transplants. I talked to a specialty eye surgeon about it. He too, said that anything that goes in the eye, should be safe IM. Eyes are so sensitive, only the purest solutions can be used surgically.

So yes, I tried it. Did I see results (as claimed above) in 72 hours?? No. I never said that. We did see a gradual improvement in the two weeks during the first 2 doses. (She gets her 3rd tomorrow). Is she 100% normal in the video? Not quite. But she is 90% better than when we started. And guess what? The horse is happy about that. This isn’t a horse that wants to retire. She’s a workaholic type. So if that product can give that back? I’m happy.

Did I come here to sing Summits praises? No. I came to defend my decision, because the above poster chose to try to make me look irresponsible.

I posted in that FB group to let them know that what they are doing (vets only posting) helps horses.

Do I have an interest in Summit? No. I can provide receipts where I paid full price and have nothing to gain by this.

The cynacism on this thread is astounding. Take the stuff or leave it. But to take my post out of context to make me look like I’m wreckless? When I have spent a portion of every day for the last year trying to find answers for my mare, researching incessantly, talking to anyone who has had similar cases etc. I’ll come here and defend the decisions I have made.

I’m all about science. I don’t jump on bandwagons. I don’t feed supplements. I rarely inject joints, because I believe the horse should be managed first and meet the needle less. I also know, that sometimes, things work out. Summit may not work for every horse. Who knows. But I made a calculated decision to try it, and I am happy I did so.

Sorry for the long post. But my case was taken so far out of context above, that it hurt my heart.

[RegentLion]

According to several posts on the FB group, some of the vets authorized to post are using this on their own animals (dogs, cats, horses) and are completely comfortable doing so because “it works” regardless of testing and approval.

There is a video on the Public Summit FB page of a dog that was allegedly so lame it was going to be put down. The video was taken after a few summit doses. The dog is pictured running happily along side a motorized vehicle (gold cart maybe), although it’s gait was somewhat abnormal.

so it appears this product “works” anecdotally, but at what cost? what’s the pain level going to be when it “wears off?” I know some underlying issues just do not “get better.”

Vested interest vet says its “not a pain killer” but it is a “massive anti inflammatory” and it all just makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

ETA: the vets using it and promoting it on the page keep touting that it’s “approved in corneal transplants so it’s a safe off label use.”

but I thought we discovered there’s no record of this drug with the FDA?!