Super shy foal -why?

[J-Lu]

Hi all,

I have a question about a very very shy foal (we’ll call: Foal A). Mare is friendly with people, confident and has had confident foals. Fellow pasturemate broodmare is very friendly with people, confident and has had confident foals, including the half-sibling to the foal in question. Foal A’s sire is very friendly and comes from Hanoverian/Oldenburg lines with high rideablility/character. Breeder is very experienced. Foal went to inspection, so has been out in the world, is premium GOV (like sibling). The only unusual thing is that the foal was born in the early afternoon, out in the pasture.

Foal A is extremely shy and takes all cues from the confident sibling (hides behind sibling, in fact). Foal A is very nervous around people - not dangerous, just very nervous and walks/trots away from people when approached. It can be haltered but doesn’t want to leave the shelter and go out in the world. You have to work to lead it out. Nothing unusual has ever happened to foal A and it was born in a stable broodie herd (mom was not bottom of pecking order and an experienced mom).

Foal A is now 2 and is still very shy and afraid of the world (again, there’s no obvious reason). Pasturemate sibling loooooooooves people, so foal A lives with a good role model. But it doesn’t sink in. It sort of clings to pasturemate and will approach people only if pasturemate does, and always behind pasturemate.

Do they grow out of this with undersaddle work or are these kinds of foals always “afraid”? Has anyone ever experienced a foal like this and have any insight into how to deal with it? Is this genetic? What could be the origin of such incredibly insecure behavior?

I say “it” to be vague. Sorry! Thanks for any information about this very curious case!

[Cloverbarley]

Actually I have one similar. He is 5 years old now and is still shy. Take him out on the trails, on the roads, through the forest and rivers and he’s super confident though! That’s the weird thing. He’s been brought up in exactly the same way as all of our foals but he’s different to them all. I’ve never really been able to figure it out. He’s easy to catch in the field and great to handle, but the moment any new person comes along, he edges away from them. He’s always lived here and this is a calm and serene farm so there’s no reason why he is so shy, he just is. We’ve just accepted that he is this way and it doesn’t cause any problems but I guess it could irritate some people.

[ASBJumper]

One outing as a baby (inspection) definitely does not count as being “experienced and seen the world”. Its takes a few years of regular & repeated positive off-property experiences to make a naturally shy/insecure foal into a reasonably confident/relaxed adult.

What other outings/experiences has this youngster had? Many line shows? Different boarding situations? Day trips to nearby farms to get used to new environments? Fairs?

If none, and the inspection has been the only outing off the property in the past 2 years, then I would say that is why nothing has changed, and no it may very well never grow out of its insecurities (or it will take a lot of years and a lot of frustration and anxiety for both the owner and the horse).

I had a horse like this. I bought her at 4.5 yrs old and she had only been trailered once, when she was weaned and sold to her new home. Was never taken off the 2nd property in 3.5 yrs. It took many, many years and many, many shows/barn changes/day trips before she stopped being a fearful nervous wreck in new situations - and she loved and trusted people!!
She is 17 now and I would say it’s only been in the past 4-5 years that she has settled fully.

My 2011 foal was/is insecure by nature. This year I made sure to take her out 3 times - a day trip to be lightly free-jumped, a breeder’s show, and a “sleepover” at a very relaxed, private boarding barn nearby. She is already getting more confident, but it will take a couple more years and a few more outings before she will happily & calmly walk off the trailer at a new place & be 100% anxiety-free. Had she stayed at the barn where she was born until 3 yrs, guaranteed she’d be in for a very rough transition to riding/show life.

I have no theories as to why some foals don’t take after their parents. Very possible there was a highly insecure grandparent somewhere in there and this is genetics popping up in a weird place, who knows. All I know is, it’s good to work on it slowly and regularly from a very early age.

[About_Time1]

A friend of mine (who I used to work for starting youngsters) bought an 8 month old colt who was the same way. He was not mean at all but if you tried to touch him, he would try to bite out of fear. He was very fearful about most things that involved people. Getting his feet trimmed was a real chore.

Shy was not the word for him. He was afraid. My friend’s barn is very busy. There is always a lot of lessons and commotion going on there. We handled him very gently and handled him a lot. When we started him under saddle, he was quite dangerous due to his fear but he was not afraid of his environment…just people. We just kept after him and handled him a lot and very fairly. We never got impatient as this would have just made things worse we felt. We gave him lots of love and yes lots of treats.

He is now a 6 year old and is a really good boy who has made a complete turn around from the horse he was the day we brought him home. He was purchased by a college student who keeps him at the barn and he is a saint. I think much of the time, these kinds of horses can learn that people are a good thing and eventually, they come around. Im sure that’s not the case with every shy horse but don’t despair. Treat her and love him/her, he/she will probably come around. Good luck.

[HyperionStudLLC]

We have one similar as well.

Had someone say…“a sensitive foal will be a great horse”. So best I can advise is that foal gets extra handling and breaking not under saddle but in hand. Some of the great horses in our world took a little extra tlc when growing up.

Best wishes!

[J-Lu]

Thanks for the comments so far! I really appreciate them! This foal is a SUPER mover, but oh so shy.

Cloverbarley, this foal is by far the shyest foal ever born on the property. Odd. ASBJumper, this foal has been to inspection and on the trailer to the vet when mom was rebred that year. So you are right, limited experience. But geez, the handling for these experiences seemed to sit well for the other foals - this one is so unique. Never shown on the line. Hyperion Stud and about Time, thanks. Hyperion, this is an exceptional foal. The movement is amazing. The next step is actually to send it to a private home that raised it’s few foals with Clinton Anderson techniques. Regardless of the technique, the 2 year old will get extensive handling and training, and a round-pen experience where it can’t go hide in a corner. It can’t hurt at this point but the owner is really trying to understand what this foal needs, to build confidence without overwhelming it. It’s SUCH a nice horse and has a ton of potential, trying to be extra extra careful with this one.

It’s just so odd how shy the foal is. NOTHING like the others born to this farm. Weird!

[runwayz]

Not sure if this applies, but how is his vision? Thinking if he can’t focus correctly on objects and counts on his little buddy to guide or protect him? Just a thought.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=runwayz;6586432]
Not sure if this applies, but how is his vision? Thinking if he can’t focus correctly on objects and counts on his little buddy to guide or protect him? Just a thought.[/QUOTE]

That was my first thought, too. One more physical question: Does/did this foal hate to be petted or scratched? I was around one as a kid who have very thin skin and the normal stuff that others enjoyed was too much for him. Oh, and does the foal behave “within normal limits” with other foals and horses? Does the same extreme shyness translate to that situation, too?

Otherwise, it might help to give the foal just one person to work with and/or one person who feeds, grooms, teaches but also provides security.

Be patient and try to meet the foal where he/she is for now and build gradually.

[Twisted_River]

I owned a WB mare that was very one person oriented. Similar to how most Golden Retrievers love everyone and most Shepherds only love their owner, she was like a Shepherd to the extreme. She was polite enough to anyone else that handled her, but only really interacted with me. I wonder how she was as a foal? Perhaps this little guy will grow up to be a bit like that?

Every 3 or 4* event horse, and Intermediate or higher dressage horse I’ve handled has been immensely unique and quirky. The fact that this little guy is so unique, maybe he’s a future Olympian? If he were mine I would fondly refer to his shyness as “upper level potential” :winkgrin:

[secretariat]

We’ve found significant contribution of the stallion to this behavior (not ALL, but certainly seems to correlate; our mare herd is closed and the correlation is not nearly as strong).

We’ve got two by an English sire who were almost feral from birth, extreme flight reflex. The one from the hotter mare was more extreme, and the mare that is known to throw calmness had a calmer, but still almost feral, baby. Neither is mean or vicious, just “private.” Both of these are fillies.

We’ve got 5 by another stallion who are in your pocket from day 1 consistently, out of 3 different mares. They’re almost pests; we have to be careful they don’t imprint too strongly on US rather than the mare at birth. 4 of these are colts, but the filly is just as cuddly.

Has anyone else seen a male/femal correlation? We seem to correlate colts with people behavior, although admittedly most of our colts are by the “friendly foal” stallion.

While the story is still developing, to date we see little correlation to performance although none are competing yet.

[J-Lu]

Vision…huh, I hadn’t thought about that. Excellent suggestion!

mvp, this foal can tolerate being touched but he’s not comfy with that contact. He’s fine with his pasturemate (his half-sib). He’s had alot of contact with other horses, as one side of their pasture borders one of the broodmare paddocks, and dogs. There’s a decent amount of activity at the barn, he’s not exactly sheltered.

TR, he’s a phenomenal mover but he’s so freakishly quirky.

Secretariat, This guy and his pasturemate/sibling are by the same stallion. Sibling is in your pocket, this guy is just apprehensive. Stallion is very friendly and scored very well at his approval. I’ve met this stallion and seen him go - super pleasant and agreeable. Sire’s dam line is populated with stallions scoring very high on character/rideability, etc, with lots of babies on the ground who are equally pleasant. His sire also has lots of babies on the ground that are owned by professionals and amateurs alike. This baby just seems to be a behavioral outlier. Again, not dangerous, just very insecure.

Thanks, all!

[MagicHillFarm]

This one sounds like a prime candidate to show on the line for a season… After a season of being extensively exposed to various people ( you, groom, handler, Braider, etc) in combination of going to new places, having to focus on a task and getting a little tired after each adventure it will most likely become old hat. Most important thing is making sure that each person in the process is kind and fair to him (patient braiders, kind Handler, savvy groom, calm mother- you !).

Showing them on the line can really make the grow up fast and come out of their shells. I have seen many do a complete turnaround to the point of them getting a little cocky and thinking they are hot stuff. :lol:
Maybe he just needs to get spiffed a few times and told he is pretty LOL.

But in all seriousness, you would be amazed at how most of the time the standoffish/ shy ones get a real ego boost once they have a “job” and know what is expected of them. I find most young horses genuinely want to please, just some of them are unsure of what exactly they need to do and then get nervous/ sucked back.

[HickoryHill]

I have a 2 1/2-year-old filly that was shy and unapproachable from day one.
Mom was a very sweet and gentle mare that just loved people. Dad was known for his wonderful temperament. This filly is none of that. Nothing bad ever happened to her but she prefers horses to people. As a yearling she tried to attack me out in pasture until I showed her who’s the boss. Still she will challenge my authority whenever possible. This year I had to hire a professional trainer since her attitude was getting borderline dangerous.
He’s dealt with lots of difficult horses but admits that she is one of the worst he’s encountered. He compares her to a feral mustang stallion.
Whenever I read accolades about her dad’s offspring and how easygoing they are I shake my head and wonder “why me?”. Somehow her genes must have aligned the wrong way.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=secretariat;6586750]
We’ve found significant contribution of the stallion to this behavior (not ALL, but certainly seems to correlate; [/QUOTE]

I have heard this also, and know of various foals from a certain well known WB sire line who were extremely shy as young foals - even from very calm, friendly, people-oriented mares. It has been especially evident with foals from one particular sire from this line. Most of the foals eventually came around with good handling, but some of them remained somewhat sensitive and lacking in self confidence. New people and new situations can get them really rattled and they need a calm and confident handler and rider they can lean on emotionally.

OTOH, I also know foals from a different sire line who are total “in your pocket” youngsters from day one. These youngsters are super sweet, trusting, very friendly, and very confident. They don’t ever seem to get worried about things and will leave their dams to follow you around the pasture, then stand politely waiting for their scritches.

[DiamondJubilee]

I also have a shy pony. I have had him since he was 6 months old and he has only been handled by myself and my husband. He is super sweet and loves his barnmates, but is really shy/timid with other people. I have 3 other ponies (2 by one stallion, 1 by another) and they are all in your face, super friendly while this guy tends to hang back and watch. I have no problem catching him and he loves to be groomed/scratched but when I have a farm sitter in, they can never get near him to bring him in. They have tried for 1 hr with a bucket of grain or carrots (which he loves!) and he just avoids them. When the do or if they catch him, it has taken them 30 mins the next day to even catch him in his stall! I have never really experienced this before. He is by a different stallion than the others and from what I see of his offspring, they all tend to be a little shy as youngsters. He is now a yearling and I have brought him out to a few sport pony line shows and I feel that it has helped him. He was very brave in all of his classes and stood up very well and trotted in hand really well for me. I found that getting out has helped him (being braided by a stranger, bathed, standing on the trailer with and without company- which he wasnt too impresed with ;). I also hope that he grows out of it soon, which I do believe it will in time. He used to run to the back of his stall if a stranger came in the barn (he looked like an abuse case!) but he will now hang his head over the door and sometimes let them scratch/pet him.
My barn is pretty quiet but if I have company over, I will bring him out on cross ties to groom him and ask them to come up to him and pet him or give him carrots. I just do little baby steps at at time and I never stress out at him or push him too much. I find that if I do, he gets much worse/worried.
Take your guy out to some shows as I really did find that they helped my guy out a bit. Even my farrier noticed as the last time he was trimmed, he just stood there (he thought he was one of my other guys) where he used to shy away from him.