Supplement?? Pulling shoes every 2-3 wks, broken up hooves

[MrsXag]

Starting on biotin supplements. Which works best?? I really prefer to give him supplements with the zero/least amounts of additives and synthetics. What would help his body absorb the biotin. Has anyone had success? I also read magnesium, copper and zinc are important for hoof hardening.

Thoughts? What hoof supplements have you had success with?

Background:
I’ve been riding a 4yr old horse since Jan and purchased him in June. Since June he’s consistently pulled his right front shoe off every 2-3 weeks since June. Four weeks ago he pulled off his right shoe just standing there! He went 3 weeks no turn outs. Just started having turnouts last week. Well Saturday he pulled off both front shoes and broke up the outer wall on both so much so it will be a miracle if we can get them back on. The farrier is coming tomorrow. Possible plan of action may include: stop dressing the hooves with conditioner. Don’t get the hooves wet. Start him on biotin. Possibly a topical hoof hardener. Maybe stall rest. No turn outs. Poor guy. I would go stir crazy. I’ll know more in the morning.

He overreaches and steps on the back of his shoe when he is eating as well as on turn outs when playing. We are going to tight fit him now so there isn’t a lip to step on, well that is if we can even get a shoe on him. And of course boots to protect his heel from overreaching.

One theory is that the hoof dressing “Sound” I was putting on average 4 times a week for the past 4 months is the problem, as that is the major change in his routine. Has anyone experienced this?

Could be the increased riding. 1-2 times a week to 3-5 times a week.

Footing? Our footing hasn’t been great, sand was compacted in some areas, uneven. It was just leveled, resurfaced/fluffed on Saturday then I turned him out and pulled his shoes in the nice fluffy sand.

His stall is sand with mats and shavings. Mucked everyday but he pees so much there is a consist wet area.

Diet is oat hay and alfalfa cubes (not crazy about this and need to do more research) I started him on the supplement equine omega complete 4 months ago.

Thank you so much for your input!

[Peggy]

Make sure that the bell boots are long enough to protect the backs of the shoes as well as the backs of the heels. This might mean going to old fashioned pull-on bell boots. The gum ones are usually easier to get on and off since they’re stretchier. Sometimes going up a size helps. I’d recommend a couple of pairs since they’re going to get destroyed and/or lost. Don’t let someone talk you into the expensive Italian ones as the store-brand ones are usually just fine.

He’s young. This sometimes happens. Then, as they finish growing and know where their legs and body are, it gets better.

My horse Star did not make it through an entire shoeing period for the first year or so I had him. One time he pulled the shoe off just as the farrier was leaving the barn. I ran down the driveway, shoe in hand, frantically waving him down, all to no avail. It did get better once I got suitable bell boots and made sure that he actually wore them, even when the barn staff got him out. I accomplished this by putting the pull-on ones on him and leaving them on 24/7. I just flipped them up when he wasn’t being exercised. Sometimes they stayed that way. Other times I got to the barn and discovered that he’d pulled one up past his knee. It was a dressage barn and they had no clue how to remove them so they stayed on.

As far as supplements I used the pelleted Grand Hoof that SmartPak sells. It has both the biotin and methionine that the hooves apparently need.

Does he need the hoof dressing? Talk to your farrier. If he needs it maybe you can just apply it to the coronary band, though even that will get messy if you keep the bell boots on 24/7. I tend not to use the stuff unless necessary.

Good luck!

PS Maybe try a layer of pelleted bedding between the mats and the shavings for the wet-with-urine issue.

[Zonderpaard]

If his feet are soft and mushy and the clinches just don’t hold, consider using TuffStuff which is a sealant. Quit the moisturizing stuff altogether and maybe turn out a bit later when the dew is off. Seal the feet before you go anywhere near him with a hose, too.

He may also have a balance issue, so consideration of the shoeing may be worthwhile.

I had a shelly footed TB for many years and struggled with him. He was the worst when he was bedded on straw, turned out where the ground was often wet. His feet were the very best when he was in Florida–bedded on shavings and stall cleaned 2x day, turned out in a sand paddock. TuffStuff and no oil/creamy hoof dressings at all. If I saw a clinch raised, I would tighten it myself and daub up the hole with the sealant (like Bondo :lol:). I used a hoof supplement, too, but I doubt it was as effective as the environmental part.

It is frustrating!

[JB]

Definitely stop any dressing - they do not help feet and many only make things worse.

If he’s stepping on the shoes, this isn’t a hoof quality problem. No amount of hoof hardener is going to prevent pulling a shoe when it’s stepped on.

If you can post pictures of his feet, it might give some insight into whether it’s a farrier problem. Take them like this:
http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

[littlecreek]

Leaps N Bounds has helped my guy have tougher feet, and Keratex is a good topical hardener. Adding fresh ground flaxseed to his feeds up to a couple of cups a day will also help feet and make him gleam. As for biotin I believe methionine is also needed to make the biotin most effective.
I agree with the previous poster about the farrier tho. Rolling toes might help him break over more quickly and help, but I would say a balance issue.

[Madaketmomma]

I had similar issues with my horse when I bought him. It has now been a year and he is in regular steel shoes (knock on wood). I found that there were a couple issues going on. First, he was out of shape and overreaches badly. I had to ride him and build his strength and that helped. As far as shoeing, it was expensive and a pain, but giving him time off because of lost shoes was not doing me any good. We put him in a glue on shoe for almost a year. It helped him not pull the shoe and grow more wall. Then we moved to a regular shoe fit tightly with a fabric cuff put on with glue to help the nails have something to hold onto. The cuff usually lasted 2 cycles so it was less expensive then a glue on, but had a lot of the same effect. I have now gone 2 cycles without a pulled shoe and trust me, that is amazing. Good luck!

I should add that my farrier is a great problem shoer and also thinks outside of the box with great results. He came up with the cuff idea on his own and although it wasn’t pretty, it really did a great job.

[mswillie]

You may have an underlying issue going on in the hoof. I’d do a CleanTrax or White Lightning soak. Then I’d make sure his nutrition is optimal. Maybe try adding a ration balancer to his diet.

My horse had absolutely awful shelly feet. I did the CleanTrax, added biotin and a ration balancer and his feet are in very good shape now.

This is IMO the best biotin supplement hands down: https://www.mccauleybros.com/supplements/products/biotime.aspx?catID=biotime

[WNT]

Second the Clean Trax. If there is any white line or other creeping crud, it will get it. No matter how well the hoof grows if there is an infection it won’t really just grow out. Also second utilizing pelleted bedding in the wet spot in his stall; that grody ammonia nastiness that is a permanent pee spot is horrible for keeping feet healthy. Ask me how I know.

My horse now lives out 24/7, and our problem is now the dew/dry cycle. He now gets Source Focus Hoof daily, and it was fascinating watching his hooves grow out over the first year he was on it. I actually started him on it for his fading coat, as it has copper and zinc which are recommended (healthy coat, healthy hooves) but it ended up doing more for his hooves. He also gets flax twice a day, making him the shiniest bleached bay ever.

Lastly, he wears double thick bottom pull on bell boots 24/7 and fly boots during the day. I noticed a huge difference in the quality of his front hooves especially when he did not have to stomp flies all day. This combination has added up to keep his shoes on his flat, thin-soled, shelly, over sized thoroughbred feet for a full 4-5 week shoeing cycle.

[Posting_Trot]

If he’s constantly stepping on his shoes and pulling them off, then that is usually a problem with how he’s trimmed and shod, as JB said above.

And be careful about allowing the farrier to put clips on the shoes, since if the horse then grabs the shoe it will probably just take off even more hoof with it and/or the clip will embed itself into the sole.

It would be worth posting some pictures.

Good luck.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=JB;7720008]
If he’s stepping on the shoes, this isn’t a hoof quality problem. No amount of hoof hardener is going to prevent pulling a shoe when it’s stepped on.[/QUOTE]

I 3rd this answer - you are talking about a 1000 lb animal in motion. Nails won’t hold a shoe on if the horse overreaches and steps on it. Maybe it’s an age/growing issue, but more likely it’s a trim issue.

My TB mare had hi/low feet when I got her (well, she still does, of course, but the difference was terrible when I first got her). It took some time to get the two front feet balanced with each other, and in the process she pulled a few shoes. But once my farrier got her balanced, she’s only lost 1-2 shoes in 5 years (usually about this time of year when her feet tend to crumble due to stomping).

I would not take away turnout for a horse (ever), but surely not for a 4 year old. Check/fix the trim, check for white line/other hoof ailments, invest in some bell boots…and maybe consider glue-on shoes if there is a hoof imbalance so that if he does step on them, you won’t lose as much hoof when (not if) he pulls them.

[Appsolute]

Yep - I agree with others, no nail can hold when they are stepping on their shoes.

Has your farrier said anything about rolling the toe, or doing something else to speed turn over? Along with conservative heels - this is what my farriers have done in the past to discourage grabbing the heels.

Is he shod behind? Does he have to be? Bare foot behind might help as well.

And lastly, my farriers liked tough stuff for horses that work in sand, and get hosed off daily. That cycle of abrasion then water can make their feet dry and shelly - tough stuff creates a barrier from the water. Our routine was ride, wipe off feet, apply tough stuff, let is set for a moment then hose down.

[Texarkana]

Is his hoof wall crumbling from the nails down or is it literally broken off from stepping on the shoe and pulling it off?

If he is physically pulling them and tearing up the hoof, I’ll be another to echo that you just need to find a way to keep his shoes on.

But the crumbling… man, that’s an issue I’ve had with a just a select few horses over the years. It can be a nightmare to deal with.