Quick question - if you are using copper and zinc to try to help with skin issues, are you aiming to meet 100% of the daily intake, or are you shooting for a higher level to be safe? If you over supplement, is there risk involved? The current feed program (free choice grass hay, Gro’N Win) looks like it should be meeting requirements, but I’m curious if a bit extra could make a difference.
I dose to effectiveness.
There are a lot of things that impact absorption, so dosing to 100% of the recommended daily intake may still leave them short (and symptomatic of deficiency) depending on what ELSE there is.
So I start low (ish), and if that’s not enough, there’s either improvement and regression, or some improvement but not resolution. If I see that, I try more.
I’ve also found they may need more when they’re really growing new coat – late summer to fall when the winter coat is coming in, and early spring with the summer coat.
You CAN overdose these things, so a little caution is warranted. But imo if they have symptoms of deficiency, and especially when those symptoms improved with supplementation (but did not resolve), that’s a good sign there’s something messing with absorption, and trying more is reasonable.
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I have a mare that gets summer sores on her legs due to tall wet grass and humidity/heat. Her coat always is very shiny but I decided to add copper and zinc to see if that would help. So far it has not made any discernable difference. I am still feeding it because it is cheap and maybe I am getting some benefit.
I am totally not in a summer sore area, so very admittedly don’t know a whole lot about them, but I thought they were a parasite thing?
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I am probably describing them wrong. They are not parasites. They are a small scratch or insect bite when the skin gets macerated in the wet grass. Then it gets itchy and she gnaws on them. She has incredibly sensitive thin skin and gnaws/rubs on everything. She got a sore on a front foot where her fly wrap rubbed on her coronet band and I had to bandage it to get it to heal. Any break in the skin is a potential disaster in the summer. No problems in cold weather. I think it is a combination of humidity, bugs and heat and add in wet skin - OYYYY! No white legs and does not look anything like scratches. She has old scar tissue from a sore years ago and I have to bandage it all summer so she doesn’t gnaw on it. Once it cools off I can unbandage until fly season.
Pretty sure it is not habronema. I am familiar with those as I am old enough to remember when we did not have ivermectin and those kind of sores were common. Highly doubt it is pythiosis because I would be freaking out. Just need to entice the pasture mower to get out here more aften.
This is a pure plug for. Using
Mad Barn Amino Trace plus
My mare had 2 raw sores on each
Side at pt. Of hip- from lying in
And rolling in her sandy dugout spot. Tried many different salves and sprays to no avail .
Put her on the Amino Trace plus
A few months ago and BOTH sores are almost totally healed, after a full year of care. Also the hair is growing back just fine.
Nothing else changed, but A.T.
Does have extra zinc and copper.
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Do you know of the water has high iron?
My barn has slightly high, but within safe limits for human consumption, iron. I found that a 5cc scoop of Mad Barn’s copper zinc was enough to let my horse’s terrible mud fever/scratches heal. The MB copper zinc comes with a 9cc scoop, so I was giving my horse slightly more than half a serving.
My point being if high iron is a possible source, how high will probably determine how much copper zinc is needed.
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The RDI for copper : zinc for a 500kg horse is something like 100mg : 300mg.
My horse gets 450mg : 1250mg daily. I reduced it to 300mg : 900mg last year, and he faded and frizzled this summer so back up it went.
Good thought! I have a water sample report somewhere; I’ll dig that out.
I appreciate everyone’s input. It’s only one horse in the barn with the issue, but I am still curious as to whether something that is relatively cheap and easy to supplement might make a difference.
Fwiw I’ve seen this in my own barn too, that some need more than others. All managed the same, fed the same, same living conditions, even the same breed.
My own personal swag on why is that the microbiomes aren’t identical, and there’s something in the gut that’s limiting or enhancing absorption, which changes the picture horse to horse.
Iron isn’t the only thing that can step on copper. Sulphur can as well, which I think is at play where I am. I wound up pulling MSM from my line up entirely to limit adding even more.
There’s just so much we don’t KNOW yet about this sort of thing!
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Mine arrived at this barn with the mud fever/cracked heels, as did my younger horse. Younger horse healed up within a couple of months. My senior was almost clear at times, but it got much worse when the fall mud season returned. A little over two years later I learned about the copper zinc iron connection, and tried the supplement. In those years my senior was the only horse with a problem. His PPID could have been a contributing factor, though it seems unlikely as it been well controlled and was caught very early.
I have been wondering about supplementing copper and zinc for my mare. She tends to have dry skin and is itchy.
She is an easy keeper.
She’s on:
1lb of Purina Enrich Ration Balancer
1cup Omega Horse Shine
10g Priobios
8,000 IU Natural Vitamin E
I do know our area is high in iron.
@JB any thoughts?
Dry skin and itchy is not a typical copper & zinc issue.
Things we usually see with a copper & zinc need are a haircoat that bleaches unduly, pigment loss, scratches that recur and or are difficult to resolve, frequent hoof abscess, frequent cellulitis. (All of these things don’t necessarily present all at once in the same horse.)
Immune and melanin.
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Thanks @Simkie I appreciate your response.
So it sounds like supplementing copper and zinc is likely unnecessary and of no benefit.
Any other suggestions?
I groom her really meticulously and also use a spray hair/coat conditioner.
I want to avoid adding oils to her diet as 1) messy and 2) she’e an easy keeper and could likely stand to lose a few lbs.
I would recommend flax, but you’re covering that with the omega shine, and a cup is a good amount.
Is what you’re seeing seasonal at all? Are you in a place that does get cold enough to kill bugs? Maybe there’s an allergy component, and if you can figure out what that is, this might clear up.
Also, is the dry itchy skin all over? Or limited to a certain area (or even just worse in any one spot)? If it’s localized at all, maybe a skin scraping is worth discussing with your vet?
We just came out of six weeks where the average temp didn’t break the 20s, mornings were in the single digits and we have had snow on the ground since Dec. 
Her skin is dry and itchy all over. It’s been pretty consistent since I bought her in Nov. It has improved somewhat with the addition of higher levels of vitamin e and the addition of the Omega horseshine, neither of which she was getting at her last home.
Yeah okay so a bug issue is out 
Since you’ve not had her long, I’d just keep doin what you’re doin. Get through a whole hair growth/shedding cycle and see where you are. Would not be at all surprised if this resolves with a new coat, since you’ve got the nutrition piece better handled than her previous people!
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It took quite a long time for vitamin E to affect my horse’s dandruff and itchy skin. I saw improvements over time, but it was a long time before I’d say he was normal. If you’re seeing improvements, give it some time.
Otherwise selenium would be something to check if you haven’t already. Both excess and insufficient can affect skin.
