Supplements to build topline

[Chestnut_Mare1]

My mare is just not putting on topline muscle very well. We are in a great training program and starting to work on long and low which I know is going to help eventually. She has huge shoulders and her bum is coming along, its just the spine area that needs a bit more cover. She is a picky eater and will not touch beet pulp, soy or oil of any kind. I try to keep things as natural as possible as she gets fairly hot and does not tolerate sugars well.

She is eating the following:

• local grass hay (in slow feeder nets filled twice per day so she is without hay maybe 2 out of 24 hours)
• 1 flake alfalfa / timothy compressed hay twice per day in feed trough
• 3 gallon tub of soaked alfalfa pellets twice a day with 1 cup of whole flax and mineral supplements mixed in twice a day.
• salt/mineral block
• carrots/apples as rare treats

Is there anything I could add to help build muscle? Thank you in advance.

[GoForAGallop]

How old is she?

I would get your hay tested, and run everything through Feed XL. Just a cursory glance at your feed regimen makes me nervous that she’s not getting a balanced enough diet for a horse expected to be in full work and putting on muscle.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

She is 12 and big at 17h. She was on pasture all winter but moved to a boarding barn in the spring with no grass. She looked much better in the winter and was only being ridden 2 times/week. I get my hay from several sources since I can only store about 30 bales so can’t test each batch I buy. What else would you feed to “balance” the diet?

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=Chestnut_Mare;8811707]
She is 12 and big at 17h. She was on pasture all winter but moved to a boarding barn in the spring with no grass. She looked much better in the winter and was only being ridden 2 times/week. I get my hay from several sources since I can only store about 30 bales so can’t test each batch I buy. What else would you feed to “balance” the diet?[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I’d probably scrap all the random stuff and just put her onto a balanced commercial feed, and make sure to feed at least the minimum recommended amount.

Don’t know what’s available where you are, but my regional feed company puts out a very nice senior feed that’s meant for horses in full work, who need higher protein and stuff, without a high sugar content.

My 19yo subsists very nicely on free choice grass hay and a vitamin supplement when he is not in work. But the second his workload really ramped up this year, he got skinny fast as all his chub converted to muscle, and he’s now on the low-sugar grain I mentioned above and looking absolutely fabulous. I could have messed around with adding oils and oats and alfalfa pellets, but it’s honestly easier to just pick up the bag of grain that I know is analyzed and guaranteed as far as nutrients.

If you really do not want to go to a commercial grain for whatever reason, I still recommend Feed XL to take a look at what might be missing. Pretty sure they still do a free trial.

[HorseInaTARDIS]

My mare is getting older and was losing a lot of topline. I discovered Total Equine by Total Feeds a few years ago and this helped her a lot. It’s not a supplement, it’s a feed.

Here is the website http://totalfeeds.com/Total_Equine.html

It is very natural. My horse is a picky eater as well, at first she would only eat half of what I gave her but after a few days she just devoured it. It’s extruded so it was different for her.

The feed helped fill in her topline but I also did a lot of hill work and back lifting with her. I started by lunging her, walk, trot, lope, where she could climb the hill then descend the hill and worked my way up to a steeper incline. Eventually I began riding her on the hills while she collected and lifted her back.

[Dani]

Smartpak’s smart muscle mass did a good job with my mare. I had her on it for a few months and really saw some improvement. She quit eating it, she quit eating most things actually… anywho, I was really pleased with that one. I was using a surcingle with draw reins while she was on it and it developed nicely. Hill work also does wonders. Trotting up hills will develop muscles all over.

[Marla_100]

Agree w/ GoFor
Gallop, I’ve used Triple Crown Senior to fill in a horse who
needs more calories and a balanced feed without making them hot.

At times I’ve added tri-Amino if additional muscling is needed but I think in your case you need the full daily amount of a balanced low sugar feed to start with.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

Would a senior feed be better than a high fat feed? Come to think of it, she was on a high fat complete feed this past winter. When reading an ingredient list, what would be considered low sugar?

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=Chestnut_Mare;8811749]
Would a senior feed be better than a high fat feed? Come to think of it, she was on a high fat complete feed this past winter. When reading an ingredient list, what would be considered low sugar?[/QUOTE]

Well there you go, I think we found the issue.

If you google “Brand Feed Name NSC” you will get results for the NSC, which is Non-structural carbs and what people look for little of when they’re looking for a low sugar feed.

Here’s an example of a chart my grain company puts out for all their feeds: http://www.poulingrain.com/system/uploads/attachments/000/000/002/original/EqCarbTerms.pdf?1469026107

For my very IR/founder prone mare, we keep things under 10%. The lower the better under that number, too.

For my active, in-work gelding, he gets the Senior Low Carb. It’s low carb as far as horse grains go, but would not be low enough for a horse who is actually sugar sensitive.

I’d say look for something under 15% for your average horse. Or, if she was doing well on whatever she was on this winter, look that up and see what the NSC % was, and you’ll have a better idea of whether she’s actually sensitive to sugar or not.

[Marla_100]

Look at total carbs in feed, some do not list it and will not answer if you call the feed co. TC Senior is one of the lowest at appx. 11%carbs, some feeds are very high in sugars/carbs and can make your horse very hot.

TC is a better quality feed overall so I’d start there if it’s available in your area.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

Thanks GoFor! My mare was VERY HOT to ride during the winter, not sure if it was because of the high fat feed or less exercise. Anyway, what do you think of the analysis: https://www.hiprofeeds.com/products/step-8-hi-fat-horse-feed

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=Chestnut_Mare;8811772]
Thanks GoFor! My mare was VERY HOT to ride during the winter, not sure if it was because of the high fat feed or less exercise. Anyway, what do you think of the analysis: https://www.hiprofeeds.com/products/step-8-hi-fat-horse-feed[/QUOTE]

They don’t actually tell you what the NSC is, other than saying “low”, so I would call and make them give you a real number. 20% is low if all their other feeds are 30%, for example, but not actually low in the real world. We have a brand in the US that sells a feed named “Safe Choice” which is actually NOT a safe choice for any sugar-sensitive horse, but the questionable marketing doesn’t note that!

Also, the feed states “Hi-Fat should be offered as a component of a balanced ration, including access to good quality forage and ample access to clean water.” I’m not sure, from that phrasing, whether it actually qualifies as a complete feed. (One that you don’t need to add anything to.) Or whether it’s just supposed to be a supplemental feed for horses who need the extra fat.

Broken record here, but I strongly encourage signing up for Feed XL. http://www.feedxl.com/ You can chart out your current feed program (which may be fine) and also play around with adding in different feeds. Looks like there is not a free trial anymore, but the $15 fee to use it for a month is worth the $$, over trial and erroring a bunch of different feeds.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

Thank you! I will try Feedxl and see how she does when I re-introduce the high fat feed.

[JB]

Fat doesn’t make horses hot. It is the slow release energy source out of all the energy nutrients.

IIRC Step 8 is on the lower side of NSC.

[katyb]

My picky eater is doing a lot better on Tribute. He hoovers it. (Yes, I know about the other thread.)

Vitamin E? Is that right for muscle development?

[IPEsq]

When you say she won’t touch soy do you mean soy oil or can she not have soy at all such as in a commercial feed?

[tazycat]

My horses have Equilix tubs pasture and get alfalfa hay once a day 5 lbs each horse. They do fine on it, no hard feed and 2 are in moderate work,plenty of energy.

[JB]

[QUOTE=tazycat;8812069]
My horses have Equilix tubs pasture and get alfalfa hay once a day 5 lbs each horse. They do fine on it, no hard feed and 2 are in moderate work,plenty of energy.;)[/QUOTE]
But they are too thin, so clearly something isn’t quite adequate with that diet, for those horses.

[tazycat]

[QUOTE=JB;8812077]
But they are too thin, so clearly something isn’t quite adequate with that diet, for those horses.[/QUOTE]

Well the Equilix tubs were just added here ,and they just started eating 5lbs of alfalfa hay… So will see if they pickup weight here in next few weeks.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8812059]
When you say she won’t touch soy do you mean soy oil or can she not have soy at all such as in a commercial feed?[/QUOTE]

She will not eat it on its own, but will if it is already in a kibble type of feed.